Tanking
 

I recall that that the FJ guys enjoyed the flexibility the Vulcan crews offered when they were changed to the tanking role.

Do you, the drivers, have a preference for a heavy jet to sit behind and tank?

Best? Easiest? The C-130......but always happy to see any tanker, be it a Victor, Vulcan, VC-10, KC-135 or Herc......

And what's wrong with a Tri*? We had LOTS of fuel !

Oh, sorry, because of my age I just missed out on receiving off the Tri - a grey moment, no offence intended......

Enjoyed the stability of the Vulcan but the ability to refuel in heavy turbulence is greatly enhanced by boom refuelling. Having said that, the flexibility of probe and drogue using either of two wing hoses or centreline on the Victor gave a greater redundancy as did the number of tankers on every tanking plan. The Tristar, of course, offers long legs to three accompanied fast jets and carries pax/freight at the same time but lose one and three fast jets don't make destination on time or the CAP does not get manned.

My favourite tanker is the one who is there when I need him!

Having done both - stiff boom & probe/drogue - it's probably quite obvious when I say it's far easier to accomplish a contact with boom, but far easier to stay in contact on probe/drogue.

Flexibility and attitude of tanker crews is far more important than the equipment.

Thats cos you never left the ground (tech tri* again) and made it to the prodding zone

Ah well, that's 'cos I was flying them when they were relatively new, my last flight on one was in 1993 - they worked quite well then.

We were always told that they were only really a stop-gap until a dedicated tanker came along . . . hmmm.

The best receiver of all was the E3D, it sucked better than Linda Lovelace, took lots of juice which meant we could go home early for tea and stickies :)

We did try to rapidly empty tankers when called upon in the good old days when the F4 was our grown up toy. A late night call for trade was often answered in order to help a Victor crew to get to their night-flying supper. A 3-bag F4 on each wing hose at 36,000ft needed reheat to fill to full and selection of wing dump at the same time depleted the Victor's load in double-quick time. For some reason the Victor crews were not allowed to dump fuel but we were.

Don't forget the pioneering Valiants
 

It makes me feel old when no-one mentions the original tanker squadrons 90 and 214. It was in 1961 we converted from bomber role to tanker. Originally just for the V force but we rapidly (after testing the engines with AVTER instead of AVTAG) started to refuel the fighters including the Lightning. I have vivid memories of Valiants returning with the fighters "donkey conk" the probe stuck in our drogue. No major problem because they were designed to sheer off, we just tied a red ribbon around it and posted it back to the receivers squadron with appropriate comments added.

An interesting point - the Lightning had some special anti-freezing agent added to its fuel and a special rig was developed to automatically mix the required amount in a 500 gallon tank between the bowser and the Valiant. This was an exceptionally useless piece of kit, so eventually we unbolted the inspection panel and with a five gallon bucket poured in the anti-freeze and with a broken paddle just stirred it up a bit and passed it to the Valiant. One day while I was on this stirring duty a passing engineering officer called out "excuse me Sergeant, what are you doing?", I replied "mixing the fuel Sir". "I thought this machine was designed to do that automatically" was his reply, "That's correct" I said " and I would like to me the $$£""$^^ idiot who designed it". "You are speaking to him" was the response.

And the worst?
 

USN Skywarriors were also v. comfortable donors.
Out of interest, what do others consider to be the worst? For me it has to be the white-knuckle ride of a Lightning sitting squarely in the wing vortex of a Buccaneer tanker.

Have seen a variety of tankers from boom to basket from lots of different units - can't beat a UK tri or vc10 - its not about the refuelling equipment its about the attitude and flexibility of the crew.....

......having said that a basket is a lot easier to stay on than the boom, but we get a much better flow rate on the boom - 6 and 2 3's I guess.....

Going back a bit, when the Navy had Sea Vixens, my captain on Valiants was the Tiny Mathews(I do not remember how many t's) of subsequent Vulcan at Tehran fame. Having refuelled a Vixen he was offered a prod on the pod on his wing. The noise combined with the airflow effect on the Valiants wing of the jet wash was terrifying, we had full aileron trim on and still the aircraft lurched about like a bucking bronco. I have made or watched well over 1000 contacts but that was the worst

Probably the most difficult was the KC-135 with the wretched 'boom-drogue adapter'....:eek: Particularly if you were flying a Q-fit F4 and hadn't had any dual or even a brief - just sent off on a Q scramble having been told "It's just another tanker"....:rolleyes:

I still have a tape (and now a DVD clip!) of a certain Irish Wing Commander prodding in a VC10K.....against a kiwi A-4. It looked a lot less tricky then Art's Valiant vs. Sea Vixen experience!

Here you go Art, stumbled across this today while looking for some pics.

http://www.seavixen.org/resources/42...ugged%20in.jpg

Its in a WAFU website Sea Vixen. Royal Navy. Carrier Jet. - Home quite complimentary about your Captain.

Being a keen young man back in the 80s, I asked Stu T+ on 74 Sqn how difficult/easy it was to do AAR. He simply said "try taking a running f..k at a rolling donut and you'll find out"!!

Pretty apt description me thinks. But I took him at his word and did not take up his suggestion:eek:

WJMcP

Gainsay.

Thanks for digging that out. It all looks serene from the outside, all arms and legs on the inside!

Gainsay,

Thanks for that. I've wanted a copy of that picture for years. If you can send a better quality copy of it, please contact me with a private message.

I was on 214 Sqdn at that time and I remember the picture being up in the crew room with various 'balloons' from the Sea Vixen with comments about 'Please don't suck too hard' etc.

As an aside, see the thread 'Valiant XD869 - Crash at Marham 1959'. The Crew Chief that was killed in that crash, Bob Sewell, was the Crew Chief of XD858 the A/C suckling the Sea Vixen, he took the fatal flight because of the other Crew Chief being ill.

Does anyone have a copy of the photo of the VC-10 taking gas from the RNZAF A4K please?

Yes, that is the right way around...

No, but I have the video!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...rnet/zxzxz.jpg

Only 1 copy of the video existed and the 'owner' used to keep it locked away, as it would undoubtedly have been a career-compromising event if it ever leaked out into the public domain.

One day he put it on in the crewroom.... After we began to watch, his PA came in to tell him that the Stn Cdr wanted him on the phone. So out he rushed, leaving us watching the movie.

There was then a brief flurry of activity as the war team fetched the 'portable' VCR we used when chasing the Soviets. Plus some cables and a blank tape. Tape-to-tape transfer safely completed, then back to hide the evidence in the war room, before taking our seats in the crewroom pretending that nothing had happened.

A few minutes later the 'owner' came back, rewound and ejected the tape when it had finished, then went to lock it safely away again......

I bumped into him at a reunion dinner many years later - he didn't know even then that his tape had been copied! And where there's one copy, there may be more.... But I know that mine was the only copy made from the original.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do have a DVD copy and no, I won't put it on yooftube or send any copies to anyone else.

As the man on the other thread said, 8 posts in and bitchin betty strikes again.

IAN16th,
Sorry, I don't have a better quality copy, as I said, I found it on the Sea Vixen website, perhaps they could organise one for you? (Actually I was looking for a pic of the Valiant's somewhat weird control column).

Art, yep, a fast shutter speed can cover a host of evils!

Talking of wacky plugging, anybody got a vid of the RNZAF A-4s doing a barrel roll while plugged in? Can't remember the aero team's name.

Something like this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ead/refuel.jpg

IMHO, The VC10 was the best: the ability to tank two at a time from a stable platform, with a great flexible crew was worth its weight in AVTUR. i always used to chuckle when arriving at a KC-10 after the US Navy had been there - the drogue always looked rather well used! Brings to mind...... nuf said! :}

I have seen a photo of a Tristar plugged into a Bucc !!! Bet that was fully illegal but fun

Not illegal...apparently a Boscombe flight trial....compatability and all that.

I have a copy somewhere, but bu99ered if I know how to upload it!!

Beagle, the Staish wants you on the phone.....

Who do we bribe to watch this video?

I gave my word that I wouldn't let it out of my sight.

Sorry, but I keep my word.

Doh !! And a British Thief's word is his bond. Careful, they'll send you to Australia... :ok:

BUgle.

If you aren't willing to show it, why mention you had it?

To be smug?
So we know how clever/important you were?

Anwering the query. So do one!

Top tip for the rum, bum and lash folk - don't let your grown ups drive your little grey boats down to the antipodes, in case they drive those cocktail party machines into the only rocks for hundreds of miles in any direction...:hmm:

Big fan of Rum, and not averse to giving a little bit of lash a try. Never fancied the bum though.
I find it interesting, however, that you obviously consider them an unsplittable group.
A quick search of your previous posts makes it very clear that they are something of an obsession with you.

You have used the phrase "rum, bum and the lash" or varients thereof (rum bum and baccy etc) 36 times in the last 3 years alone.

methinks he doth protest too much............?

With my, admittedly totally untrained at profiling, Freudian head on, I have to surmise that one of your early fumbles was with a sailor who got a bit rough with you after drinking his tot?

Looping in the Basket
 

Did the A-4 do his little looping number?, I'm sure the VC-10 would have got most of the way up before falling out.....



...and yes (I mean NO to the KC-135 BDA).....

My second go at that ballet dance (I mean Rumba!) was with the Staish on my wing doing his first!! - I was considered 'experienced', having done it on the day prior!

Tanking Video
 

All this talk about tanking and videos reminds me that I have a video, taken professionally from a Dominie at that euphoric time after the Falklands, of a Vulcan (50 Sqn) inflight refuelling a variety of aircraft including another Vulcan (not me). I have always been meaning to have it transcribed (?) to DVD but have just been too lazy. If anybody's interested, let me know and I'll get my thumb out and have it sorted.

Although there is a soundtrack, mostly just air rushing through the aircraft, there's no speech until after Vulcan rather c*cks up a contact and moves back about a foot or two and rushes in regardless. A voice is heard in the background "He's not pi**ing about, is he?"

Nice dusk tanking sortie down south, bit of a bust HDU too.

Vc 10/a4k
 

I think I have that pic, I was in the Tristar at the time. Will look for it!!

A4 Barrel Roll
 

Think I have one of that too....

Best tanker? Easy really, he's the fellow who comes to get you when you've pushed the fuel to stay on task for that extra couple (or so, gusting 20) minutes to get the job done....it's very humbling indeed to hear that there's no more gas in theatre but 'random callsign 12 is hauling the mail up the boulevard to try to get to you'.

Let's not forget the C2 fellows who give you the snap to the tex when your BPM is in the low two hundreds. Absolute gentlemen.

Worst tanker? No such thing. From Transall to Extender, they're all, genuinely, my heroes.

Around '83 or so a Vulcan tanker arrived in RAFG for us F4 mates to play with I recall closing up to stabilised pos, when both my Nav and I realised that the HDU housing scabbed on the lower rear fuselage was what looked like half a garden shed! Tanking from her was straightforward, but the affil at LL afterward was anything but - enormous fun!

It was known as the 'MFI wardrobe', I understand.

You're right about LL affil in RAFG! Did that once (in a bomber, not a tanker) and thought how skilled the F4 crews must be working in that awful 'Ruhr clag'. We had a target to reach, they had to stop us. We 'bombed' the target, then went back to Wilders only to find that they'd pulled out of low level due to the vis!

Good times!