RAF Gaydon Victor fox hunt incident
 

What is the story behind the amusing Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Christmas card "Gaydon Incident 1963" by Patricia Forrest GAvA? Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises
(The fox darts in front of a Victor powering up, the jet exhaust and flying ice diverting hounds and hunters). I had the impression security aound V-bombers were quite tight?
Seasons Greetings.

That may have been true, but one was not allowed to interupt the landed gentry :mad: from pursuing their interest of ripping foxes to pieces for the sheer pleasure of it.

Would have been OK in this part of the Midlands, though, as it was seldom the 'gentry' doing the hunting. It has always been assumed by those too class-conscious to think about it that fox-hunters are wealthy toffs with too much time on their hands, whereas most of the huntsmen in farming areas are working farmers who see foxes as vermin that harm their livestock rather than as cute, cuddly pets.

Merry Christmas to all, foxes included.

Its not just the 'Landed Gentry' who hunt.

I would have loved to see a V-bomber spooling up in the snow- but I wasn't even a twinkle in my mother's eye and a twitch in my father's trousers when they were around.

One should not forget that the V-bombers did a better job than new labour in preserving our way of life!

Fox hunting is just one example.

Thanks - a bit of a hornets nest - so to speak. What I was hinting at: There must have been an incident like this, and the painter were told the details. (Yes, i could ask her! Too easy.;))

"Station Commanders" around the world had/have their interpretations of what constitutes a "runway incursion" (in modern "yuck-speak"). Could "he" be one of the hunters? (Yes, I know this was probably not near the runways.)

Glad that 12 Sqn, RAF, is still active. "Leads the field". (From the Fairey Fox bomber, that outran the contemporary fighters, I guess?) A bit like the Swedish Lansen target tugs' motto "Semper Primus" = "Always first"?
Best Regards
P.S. Still using the cards, and got some questions back about the motive.

1Hr 20 mins after the thread was started.
It doesn't take long for the jealous whingers to jump in.
Never hunted a fox, not interested, but having seen what they can do, no sympathy.

So the fox may have been clever in distracting the hunters with the jet exhaust but surely his plan would have been foiled when he was sucked into the intakes and delivered in finely sliced pieces to the waiting hunters.

Reminds me of an incident a few years ago at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome....

Before they built the lay by at the RW08 threhsold, we'd have to queue for ages to cross the runway, sitting impatiently at the lights next to bay 7 (or 48 or whatever it's now called under Catarrah). One fine day, with lots of people queuing waiting for the lights, along came the local hunt in full chase pursuing 'Charley' outside the fence.

Who, being cunning, knew of a few fox-sized holes in said fence. He squeezed through, then stopped in the middle of the taxiway. He turned to look at the furious hunt, then turned to look at the queue of cars....before squatting and crapping in the middle of the taxiway as if to say "And that to you buggers" before trotting off to wherever he was going.

Brilliant - it was like something out of 'The Ballad of the Belstone Fox'!

Objection:


I am not jealous, I too have never hunted a fox, and I have no desire to witness an animal being ripped to shreds for fun.

Why not just shoot the fox with a poisoned dart, quicker, but less 'fun'.

Death from a poisoned dart would be problematic, slow and painful.

A hound kills a fox instantly with its first bite. Really, yes it does. The pack then rip the carcase to bits, which is distressing to onlookers.

I have never hunted, but lived in the country and was exposed to such things when I was young. We considered it normal country pest control.

But those who breed foxes so that they can later kill them deserve nothing but contempt.

The pro-hunting lobby don't really put up very convincing arguments, though and are their own worst enemy. Also, it is the 'ritual' aspect of it all which probably enrages the 'antis' more than anything; 'blooding' youngsters at their first kill is hardly a 21st century contribution to rural pest control, for example.

This is not the thread to re-examine the pros and cons of fox hunting. Suffice it to say that this stalinesk government has ineffectively banned it in the same unenforcable way that they have passed many new laws. The only effective thing they have achieved is to wreck a healthy economy.

PS Ta for the winter fuel allowance that I didn't need - why not find a way to help those who need it.

Note: the horses and hunters are the other side of the fence.

In those days a simple wooden fence was sufficient to keep out spies, saboteurs and other riff-raff - particularly when an airframe was on a remote pan for an engine run. The fox, as can be seen, has nicked through the fence leaving the hunt to look on in exasperation as it makes its getaway.

Chain link fences and barbed wire only started to appear in the early 70s when Paddy started taking pot shots.

Now what could be simpler?

Nothing to see here, move along please.

Reminds me a bit of the incident with the spotters and the B1 at Fairford a few years back.....

i.e. landed gentry... :rolleyes:

Like the working farmer and his NFU mates who started waffling on about 'acreage' (and our lack of it) when we claimed for damage caused by his cattle.

:ok:

Not christmas card material ;) - but a good story for the coming parties!

I was a very young co-pilot on Valiants at Wittering in the late 50s. I understood that, just before I arrived, the Burleigh hunt had held up operations when it crossed the airfield in full cry. Apparently, when the land was compulsorily purchased from the Lord of the manor during the war, the scribes failed to include his ancient hunting rights in the paperwork, so the hunt was within its legal rights. I make no claim as to the truth of this story but it was quite current at the time. That may be the source of the painting in question.

Worth recalling that the only other hunting ban in Europe was imposed by Hitler :ok:

Article confirming this in the Telegraph.

Gaydon Painting.
 

Much discussion recently about this painting.This is what happened.
I was in the crewroom of "A" squadron , 230 O.C.U.at R.A.F.Gaydon.There was no flying due to the bad weather.A blizzard was blowing outside.A sergeant stuck his head round the door and said there was an instrument problem on XA 941 and to get down there and fix it.I put on my anorak and went outside.I arrived at the aircraft and saw the Warwickshire Hunt milling about in the jet exhaust of the Victor.Large sheets of ice were being picked up and sent spinning towards the riders , horses and hounds.The horses were panicking and there seemed to be much confusion , with the result that the hunt was circulating in the worst part of the ice storm.Chiefy Swinburne , the crewchief , had not seen the riders as he was looking down [due to the weather] and they were hidden by the flying ice.I signalled that he should cut the engines and he then saw the hunt and did so.The rest of the groundcrew had got into the cockpit , pulled up the ladder and shut the door.Only the crewchief [obviously made of sterner stuff] remained outside the aircraft.
I commissioned the painting , and 17 prints of it have so far been sold , and numerous Christmas cards.I was contacted by the ex Station Commander , Group Captain Everitt , who told me of an earlier intrusion by the hunt.Print No.17 was bought by Tom Swinburne [ex Chiefy] and I am told by John Bishop , Master of Hounds and in charge of events at the Heritage Museum at Gaydon , that there is at least one hunter still living that was there.To conclude , the fence was as it is in the painting.

ZH875
You sound like a real leftie city dweller, you could write all you know about the countryside on the back of a first class stamp.
Animal rights also on your mind? Anti fur trade and anti vivisection as well?

:E

Good to see that Godwins law still applies in 2009... :ok:

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a sad fact of life that as the fox gets older it doesn't go off to some happy little leafy glade in the forest that is a hospice for the elderly where it is cared for by unselfish and dedicated members of the pack.

The truth is a little more stark. As a fox deteriorates, due to age or health, it ceases to be able to hunt for itself and eventually becomes weak and vulnerable, prey to predators in the form of younger and healthier animals to the point that, if it can hide, it will starve to death but if unable to hide it will be attacked, chased and eventually ripped to death by these predators, the natural balance of nature.

The foxes that the hounds find are usually in the not so fit category and hounds are well aware of the damage a cornered prey can cause, they will not mess with it but leap in for a very quick kill, usually by throwing the animal into the air and breaking it's neck, only after it is dead will they rip it to pieces.

Countrywide we would all be a lot better off if the know-it-all townies would leave the countryside to look after itself.

I don't have any particular objection against hunting but I do loathe and detest the arrogant assh*les who engage in the sport. They appear to assume that they own the place and they have the absolute right to do whatever they want, irrespective of any inconvenience caused to anyone else about their legal business.

This stems from many incidents from the occasion a lot of years ago when I was forced into a ditch while riding my bike on the (public) highway by a hunt coming the other way and taking up the whole road to a local main route being blocked by badly parked horseboxes and trailers a couple of weeks ago (the fact that local flooding meant this was the only viable route through that part of Dorset did not help).

JanotLapin - I suspect 232 OCU. 230 OCU was a Vulcan unit - always. Top link gives 230 OCU history and the bottom link contains a potted history of all the OCUs (including 232)

RAF-lincolnshire.info :: 230 OCU

OCU 226-235.htm

And I guess that sums up what all the angst and breast beating is about - it's all about "toffs" vs "chavs". Long may the class war reign - and bugger logic and common sense.

Depends what and where the 'Fur' is!:eek:

ZH875,
Ha ha ha :O
Good answer :D - most amusing !!!!!!!!!!!

Actually security was a bit like the quantity of ammunition we had. It was mostly smoke and mirrors. I guess we had the minimm to appear to be a viable deterrent. We certainly didn't have a robust deterrent.

Until I think the mid-70s each nuclear armed V-bomber was guarded by one RAF policeman. Only when someone got to think closely about the 2-man principle was the number of RAF Police doubled up. It hurt until more were recruited.

Unarmed V-bombers were not guarded. As Gaydon was a training base security, or rather the security resources, would have been very scarce.

At Cottesmore one day a civilian heading for the A1 took the wrong road. Instead of turning right for Greetham he drove down the camp road, through the main gate, passed Ops and the Messes, passed Quarters and hung a left at the lazy runway and a right on the taxyway. Only when he reached the QRA aircraft did the penny drop.

Until I think the mid-70s each nuclear armed V-bomber was guarded by one RAF policeman.
=================================

I remember at R.A.F Cottesmore 1959 - 1961 a Victor being guarded by an RAF policeman and dog. The policeman fell asleep in his little hut and left the dog to run free. It attacked Wingco Johnnie Johnson as he approached. No injuries to the C.O but I don't think that the Snowdrop got off as easily.

A dog with discrimination.

I was there then, never heard a word about it, surprising really.

232 O.c.u.
 

Yes I made a mistake about the O.C.U. , it was 232 . The unofficial motto was "It,s all been Changed".
As the first snow was falling we pushed all the ground equipment , giraffes and so on , onto the squadron carpark . They were subsequently covered in snow which became almost solid with time , and as they,d been very neatly placed in true RAF manner , and interlocking , we were unable to dig them out . One doghandler burrowed into the mound and made himself an igloo . Another had a real swine of an alsation , about 3/4 normal size but far more vicious than usual . I was on nights one night and the squadron was nearly deserted , it being about 2.30 am. I was working on an oxygen regulator in the bomb aimer,s prone position in the nose . I had a very powerful Aldis lamp.The dog handler , seeing beams of light emanating from the bomb aimers window came over to investigate . I pressed the Aldis lamp against the glass and waited til he peered in , then switched it on . I heard a strangled cry but no more . Having repaired the leaky regulator , I started to climb down the ladder , I heard a deep growl . Doghandler had tied his 3/4 size psychodog to the ladder . I spent a long time in that very cold cockpit , which was no more than I deserved.
Some weeks later the dog went mad , putting the handler in hospital , but not before he shot it with his .38 pistol . I talked to him about it later and he was surprisingly sorry about the incident . He actually liked the dog.
Incidentally , I was known as "Shingles" at Gaydon ,[long story] I wonder if anyone else who was there reads this site?

You've obviously never encountered a proud Crew Chief. :}

Not guarded? There were usually one dog and his man to a pair of dispersals. The dog handlers provided us with much amusement during idle moments waiting in the crew hut for an inbound; when he's at Delta 13, make a call to Delta 14 and watch him walk to the phone, then hang up and call Delta 15 ad infinitum. It often took three circuits of the dispersal before they gave up. On another occasion, the dog attacked the handler on Bravo. With the dog mauling his leg, the Plod managed to unpack his bullets from the green, greased paper packets, load them into his magazine, cock his pistol and shoot it, much to the merriment of one Starter Crew on Charlie dispersal.

So, yes, there were guards around the aircraft and yes, they were armed and dangerous - but not necessarily to intruders. :uhoh:

Dog handlers.
 

Thank you for reminding me of the telephone scam , I did it many times but had completely forgotten .If you watched the dog handler shoot his dog , you must have been at Gaydon? Or did that sort of thing happen more than once? Another scam I invented was to ask the squadron storeman for the "Artificial Horizon Leveling Set".I forgot all about it , but he didn,t. After several weeks of searching he finally confessed to me that he,d lost it.It was the modern equivalent of the "left handed foot spanner , long weight , or Hymol-Wright Jack for sidecars.

Reminds me of the time in ASF stores asking the temporary storeman (an ancient Sgt engine fitter) for a 'wee megger', ''don't f*ck me about, he said, ''small medium or large''?

I can see some people on here ,were it the 1800s, defending slavery on the basis of "tradition".....

Buzz off sonny. This thread is about Victors at Gaydon and is not, despite a couple of attempts to way lay it, about the ethics of fox hunting.

Mind you, you probably know all about the V Force, having been given a plastic kit of one on your 7th birthday.

As it happens, my father was groundcrew on Valiants at Gaydon, late 50s

Just a comment that some people present an unsympathic face to the public who peruse such sites.

End of.

bazzacat, we don't cater for the public, 'who may happen to peruse these threads. If you don't like what you read, move on!

When I was at Cottesmore, 1960-62, Johnny Johnson was a Gp Capt and CO!

He had a habit of arriving at Crash Gate one via a side road, then calling up for the crash crew to come and open it for him, the reason being, as he explained to this lowly SAC one-day, "I can be in my office before anyone knows I'm there". I had numerous chats with him and of course knowing who he was meant I was in absolute awe of the man. It was only later in life that I came to realise not everyone saw him in that light!Many years later he was a guest at the Wanaka Air Show in New Zealand and I reminded him of his crash gate episodes, and he was gracious enough to say he remembered me, something I doubt very much.

He had, however, something to do with the Cottemore Hunt, and I had heard that he sought out some airman volunteers once to go to Melton Mowbray for some reason, and they had been royally fed and watered. I waited in vain for my invite!

Just as an aside, Cottesmore on a bright sunny winter's day covered in snow with 10 and 15 parked up for the day was a magical scene in my book.

Samuel,
Do you not mean 10 and 15 parked up. A senior moment no doubt.