Air Defence of Republic of Ireland
 

Just out of interest, I'm sure I read a while ago, that the RoI had an agreement with the UK, that the the UK would provide Air Defence for the RoI if the need arose.

Does anybody know anymore about this or if its true?

Err, Right....
 

So are you asking about sensitive international agreement (if indeed it exists) and potential current and future operations (if such an agreement exists)?

Sorry to sound harsh, ScottishCop, but do you really expect a sensible answer? Umm? :ugh:

Try asking your question here: Department of Foreign Affairs - Home

S41

It was just something I read in the paper a while back.

I'm just interested in who does provide Air Defence of RoI as they lack any relevent aircraft for the role.

I assume that there may well be some such "arrangement or agreement" to that effect as the Republic has "a limited Air Defence capability". I remember going to the Irish Air Corps Dublin Base some 20+ years ago and Dublin Centre instructed us to "Call Irish Military on 120.0 - GOOD LUCK".

After landing we were invited to the Officers Mess where we we met by a Reservist Officer who greeted us by saying "As far as I am concerned you are all legitimate targets".

Dublin International was better - we got Irish Special Branch escorts who took over the First Class Cocktail Bar to look after us.

PS If you are intertested - does that mean you have trouble with your interstices?

I think it would be fair to assume that the UK wouldn't knowingly standby and watch Terry Terrorist do something stupid to the ROI. As far as formal agreements etc are concerned, I speculate that such information would be politically very sensitive and I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would be willing to give you a definitive answer on Proone.

Im not interested in sensitive things. I'm just wondering about who covers the Air Defence for the RoI, if any.

For instance, I believe Australia would cover New Zealand if need be, due to NZ having no combat Aircraft.

In the case of Australia and New Zealand there is a well publicised mutal pact.

In the case of Ireland and Irish Neutrality I have seen maps where Ireland was not actually drawn on the maps.

And precisely which threat would the ROI need to defend against?

Come to think about it, which threat does the UK's AD Force guard against?

Have you read the papers lately about Russian infringements of the UKADR or can't you read? If you can't read then I would like to point out that even the Sun ran a story on it :E

in true pprune tradition, if he cannot read then your post is null and void .... sorry but its contagous.....

Looks like I got a bite!

Sorry, themightyimp, I was being a bit facetious here. Nevertheless, 'threat' is defined as 'capability plus intent'. I have no doubt that Russia has the capability to launch an attack against the UK, but has it the intent?

well the slovenians are paying the italians 60million usd a year for air defence!

with repects to the UK and the ROI i suspect there's an "understanding" as opposed to an "agrement"


"Come to think about it, which threat does the UK's AD Force guard against? "


Have you been in a Coma since 10/09/2001?

Not sure that they deserve the UK's assistance after their proclaimed and demonstrated loyalties in two World Wars (although there were many much-appreciated individual exceptions).

I think they have it covered....

http://www.aidanmccarron.com/wp-cont...shairforce.jpg


:}:}

During world War 1 Ireland was still under british rule so there was no such thing as irish neutrality until irish independence in 1922.

But, in WW2 it was a different matter.
I had the privelege of chatting to a gentleman who was an observer on Sunderlands, based on Lough Erne, at the western end of Northern Ireland. They spent long hours on patrol, sub-hunting over the North Atlantic.
One night, his crew decided to nip over the (un-policed) border into the ROI, where there was no rationing. In uniform, they borrowed a truck, travelled the 5 miles to the ROI coast, and headed south to find the first pub.
They all piled into the bar and ordered a round of whiskies, As they were waiting to be served, they looked through the bar, and into the 'snug' and came face to face with a German U Boat crew!

The irish are renowned for their hospitality, if sunderland crews can sneak a pint why cant u boat crews! They should have had a game of football or something as the pipes of peace played.

The position of Eire in WW2 was both complex and sublime.

Chamberlain, after Anschluss, went to see Dev. He did not want to guard the Ulster border against Fenians, nor the Treaty Ports against revolting locals. He did want a re-run of WW1 when colleens and Paddies came over voluntarily en masse to serve in uniform and in Munitions Works. So that re-run was arranged. No conscription, but massive Munitions work - Harland, Shorts - in Ulster, and Coastal Command, and intended USAAFE B-29 at Langford Lodge; open border, freedom of movement, inc. of currency, no work permits or residence restrictions; UK out of the Treaty Ports; more...

UK airfield construction programme - which was vast and speedy - employed 60,000 Paddies, liberating fit Brits equivalent to, what, Monty's entire Brit. complement in the desert.

And of course as the Free State was neutral in WW2, Das Dritte Reich were able to maintain a useful embassy there .....

..... in which embassy, Dev signed the Book of Condolences after Der Fuehrer's suicide in 1945 ......

IIRC

Some 250,000 Citizens of the Irish Republic volunteered for service with UK Armed Forces during WW2 - hence the appalling accent used by Sean Connery in the film "The Longest Day".

Irish air Defence
 

Of course it's not just Air Defence. I have always wondered why Ireland bothers to maintain an Army but not an Air Force. If it ever did 'hit the fan' a troop of Boy Scouts, with Air support, could roll them up in a weekend!

Mind you, their prime mission seems to be to be hired out to the UN and of course there is always the CIVIL aspect.

Sweden and switzerland have true neutrality in that they can defend it, up until the late eighties ireland was piss poor so trying to justify a multi billion pound air force was never a runner. Initial WW2 neutrality was based upon devaleras (mistaken?) wish to stay away from englands war and by doing so reaffirming ireland fledgling independence (lets not forget ireland was just coming out of almost 400 years of british occupation and were reticent about aiding the 'oul enemy'). As a result of Irish neutrality during the second world war there has develpoed a 'neutral' mindset within the national psyche which is impossible to shake. It should not be forgoten however that ireland was neutral towards the allies! Allied bomber crews who carried out forced landings in Eire during WW2 were fed, refuelled and helped on their way, German crews were interred, coastal watchposts passed on german air and naval movements to the brits etc. The issue of Irish neutrality duriing WW2 and continued neutrality is still an ongoing debate. Every remembrance day the question is still asked as to why, given thousands of irish volunteers died in allied service, ireland did not just fully ally. In my humble opinion neutrality in WW2 was a mistake, however moaning about it and basing current political and military policy on a almost 70 year old gripe seems daft.

[QUOTE=KiloB;4520456]Of course it's not just Air Defence. I have always wondered why Ireland bothers to maintain an Army but not an Air Force.QUOTE]

They do...

"The Role of the Air Corps under the Defence Act is to contribute to the security of the State by providing for the Military Air Defence of its airspace. However in times of peace it is more usual for the Air Corps to fulfill the roles assigned by Government through the deployment of a well motivated and effective Air Corps.

In Support of the Army
In Support of the Naval Service
In Aid to the Civil Power "

Defence Forces - Air Corps Roles

Guess it depends who you're defending your airspace from!

eurocopter - Very nice post, sir.

One of my wife's relatives was an ardent Republican yet as soon as Britain declared war on Germany he was on the boat to Liverpool to sign up.

Why does Ireland need an Airforce?. Who is the enemy?. To defend Ireland against its nearest neighbour. Ireland would need 600+ fighter aircraft. This is not possible.

ROI Ww2
 

During WW2 President Devalera played a pretty straight bat in that he had to be seen to be even handed between the opposing forces. Winston Churchill vilified him because of his independant attitude, and had Devalera been part of the British elite then he would probably have been sacked.
The Irish question has and still remaims complex but in this instance one has to remember that Sir Roger Casement had been landed at Tralee by German U boat to assist in the uprising during WW1 against British rule, so links with Germany preceded the events of WW2, along with empathy for the Germans by the some of the Irish population, depending on their political affiliations.
During WW2 many Irishmen flocked to Britain, some to join the colours and others to join the civil engineering companies that between them contributed so much to the war effort.
However, it has never been officially admitted or indeed properly researched regarding the small minority of camp followers of a certain political organiseation who embedded themselves with the volunteers and caried out acts of espionage and sabotage in the UK during WW2 on behalf of Germany.
Historically British Military Intelligence has always maintained that all German spies and saboteurs were captured, this being based on German documents seized after the war, however Hitler had many parallel operations running in competiton with each other and I beg the question was MI fully aware and have they told the full story?
It would take someone of the brilliance of John Ware who carried out such excellent investigative reporting in the 1980"s on the World In Action programme to unravel the cause and effect of this particular subject but over the years substantive clues have pockmarked history ever since on this rather interesting aspect of wartime history.

The Irish army were sent to the Gulf a few years back.

Unfortunately the Mexicans sent them back:O

Good one! You cant beat a good paddy irishman joke, we must keep the spirit of bernard manning alive, semper fi.

RoI in WW2
 

While Ireland needed to maintain an appearance of neutrality during the War, in January 1941 the UK government negotiated the Donegal corridor via a secret treaty with the Irish Free State. This enabled the Catalinas and Sunderlands operating out of Castle Archdale to reach 100 miles or more further into the Atlantic compared to the previous route flying entirely over Northern Irish territory and crossing the coast near Derry.

While primarily aimed at improving convoy cover and reducing the mid-Atlantic gap that could not be reached by anti-submarine aircraft operating from either side of the Atlantic, the Donegal corridor also enabled the Catalina that spotted the Bismarck to have the required range.

There's an interesting small museum at Castle Archdale comemmorating the wartime flying boat operations.

No one has written off the real, apparent and possibly imminent attack by hordes of Vikings from the Isle of Man!

Under the bar, with hard hat on.:rolleyes:

Buster'

Was told the Donegal corridor was still being "exercised" during Shackleton days, from Ballykelly.

How much did Ireland suffer during the Battle of the Atlantic? I doubt the wolf packs paused to ask whether ships were going to Ireland or Liverpool.

Eire didn't "make the deep ports unavailable". UK chose to terminate its Treaty Rights (see my 9/11 post). They chose neutrality, which you may object to (if you are an RoI citizen). Neutrals do not offer aid to a combatant.

One of the greatest fighter pilots of WWII was Dublin born, Brendan "Paddy" Finucane. A Wing Commander at the tender age of 21. Crashed into the Channel, was knocked unconscious and drowned whilst returning from a sortie over France.
His dog would always wait at the side of the runway for Paddy's return. When he failed to return, his dog stayed by the runway, refused all food and drink and died of starvation some 10 days later. That's real love and devotion.

Donegal Corridor
 

Not sure if the "corridor" still exists but it is still there, if you know what I mean. Got caught out on SAR W of Ireland in the late 1980s and found that the only way to Ballykelly was in a straight line. I remember a mountain pass with a Pub called "Rosie O'Grady's"?? (did'nt stop, just flew by) but a quick internet search draws a blank.
DL

In ref to the OP's Q, yes the ROI and the UK have an "agreement".

Quote"A significant proportion of the south's imports were from the neighbour they love to hate"

Posted by:Vie sans frontieres

The Irish dont hate the British, thats history, move on but dont forget it's a small minority that always get the attention unfortunately, but they are seen over here for what they are small minded fools.

And if Alex Salmond gets his way will we be asking the same questions about a Jockinese Air Force?:)

I ask the question, how many RoI Nationals are at present serving in the British Armed Forces?