Wannabe RAAF Pilots

As a former RAAF/RAF test pilot I occasionally had the task of assessing aircraft crew stations particularly cockpits/flight decks of newly designed aircraft to ensure that there was conformation with what we called the "Standard Man".

This involved the Standard Man's reach and manual dexterity around a crew station and his ability to handle all of the flight control forces, operating levers, switches and the like. One's ability to hold full rudder in a heavy with an engine out often determines your personal minimum control speed.

Consequently I am keen to know whether the recruiters examine you physically to determine how much you might deviate from the standard. There are limits of acceptability and I understand that the RAAF is doing a survey to determine how a standard Australian conforms with the present fleet of aircraft.

Gday guys,

Sorry about re-inventing the wheel with my other thread. I hadn't seen this thread before I posted it, so apologies for my guilty case of premature e-threadication. :mad:

I'm about to undergo the FSP course in about 5 days. Yes, I'm nervous, but the sheer thought of essentially receiving one-on-one flight tutorials with Australian aviation's best is just a real buzz. :ok:

Tomorrow I'm heading to Red Baron flight aerobatics for a one hour session - it ain't cheap (about $450), but I have heard so many people (several had gone through FSP) recommend this, I thought I'd give it a last second dash.

Was just curious about the course:

Do you do PT whilst you are there?
Are you tested in rotary wing (eg gyro's)?

I realise this question is going to sound whimpy, but I'm gonna ask it - are the rooms heated? I have heard that Tamworth is colder than a kiss from my mother in law this time of year :ouch: Should I take a mini heater/electric blanket? I feel the cold really badly (no body fat) and have pulled out the old thermal undies...:bored: (...and sox, and skivvy, and gloves...)

Also, have people been taking their laptops? (only because alot of my research/study notes/documents are on it)...
Or have most candidates found that there is no time other than studying for your flights?

Cheers,

Dan.

Thanks everyone.

It's not that I've been ignorant or lazy - I had done my homework a while ago at the start of the process, but never really found an outright statment regarding the primary and secondary roles of pilots in text. But all good now ;)

Yup, although it scares me a little that I feel I haven't had enough flight time or study time, just the thought of going up in the air with RAAF guys is a phenomenal buzz that I really relish. I can't wait!!!

I've just found out about the other RAAF-pilot-wannabe thread (hehe), so I will continue to post on there from here on in.

Cheers everyone.

Sincerely appreciated. :ok:

Dan.

Good on you, Dan - you seem to be very well motivated and have a clue or two, factors which are half the battle.
As has been mentioned above, previous flying experience doesn't necessarily translate to success on RAAF pilot courses, and can sometimes cause hiccups due to the need to 'unlearn' undesirable habits, and possible overconfidence.
There can also be a tendency for significant previous experience to mask learning difficulties until the less familiar parts of the course come up (eg formation, low tactical navigation etc), at which point some people come unstuck.
Just approach it with quiet confidence and you'll most likely be fine.
For what it's worth, I started out in the RAAF as an 18 year old with lots of interest in flying but negligible practical experience (apart from aeromodelling) due to coming from a family not exactly flush for cash, but got through without too many dramas and went on to a reasonably long flying career in the service, so I know it can be done. Lots of other people have too.

Thanks Arm out the Window. Are you allowed to fly like that? :p

I took a one hour aerobatics flight with Red Barons flights today... WOW.
Sure, it may have bruised me financially (one hour cost ~$400) I am SOOOO glad I did this before going - IMO worth every cent. The people were really nice and very understaning - I squeezed in at the last minute, and they were very accomodating in this regard. I had Keith Kur as my instructor, and he was a fantastic tutor/instructor.
We covered (and I performed) taxiing, take offs, levels flights, aileron rolls, loops, loop-roll combinations, mid flight stalls, cuircuiting and landing (which I got! yeah!!!)
Sorry to sound like an arrogant bastard / boasting... i think I'm still on a buzz/high from the ride. It certainly has made me more aware and more confident internally, and now have an idea of what to expect with various manoeuvers and the G-forces associated with them.
If you are about to undertake the OSB, and haven't done so already, I would strongly advise you fork out a few hundred bucks and at least get up there for some get-used-to flying.
If you're in Sydney/Bankstown area, head to www.redbaron.com.au
Sorry to sound like a commercial plug, but the guys at Barons were really great. If i had more time (or rather, if they had more slots available this week) I would do some more, for sure!

After speaking to several people (RAAFies/Navy and instructors) I have received mixed views on whether as a RAAF pilot you are pilot first and officer second or officer first and pilot second.
I know it doesn't sound like abig issue, but I wanted to be sure/correct before going in to OSB. Just in case.


Oh yeah, and if you are going to strap yourself in to the seat tight (ie, aerobatics) make sure you do NOT have your wallet in your rear pockets. I couldn't feel my right leg/thigh/knee/toes after 15 minutes from take off :O

Hey ED,

I had the YOU day with basic aptitude that everyone goes through, then had the Pilot Specific several weeks later which was only the harder aptitude tests and coordination tests. All of my interviews are on the assessment day coming up. Hope this clears things up,

the hat guy

G'day Milt,

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong) you are asking whether the RAAF test for ones strength and dexterity to be able to control the aircraft? So far they have not done this for me, and as far as I am aware do not do it at all during testing to determine ones suitability to join the RAAF.

Cheers from the hat guy

Hey ED,

200! Must be my lucky number:ok:. As for the time between tests, it is up to you really. For me, and I can only assume everyone else, they simply offer you the dates available in the next couple of months and let you choose it at your will.

Cheers

The Hat Guy

Sorry I gave you the wrong impression re pilot leg strength. Reference to being able to apply rudder in an engine out case was just one facet for consideration.

I heartell the RAAF is conducting a survey of all typical Australians who qualify or want to qualify as aircrew to determine how they may best fit into the crew stations of the current and probably the future fleet having now been through the design/build phase.

When I was doing cockpit assessments I think the measure was reference a standard American/European man.

There may not be much difference.

Thanks!
 

Thanks dmcleod.

Some good tips there ! (...the white board, hey...:E)

Mmm.... I hate to admit it but it was only recently after speaking to several pilots and ex pilots that the consideration of other services (other than RAAF) has sunk in...:O

So, although I feel it's a bit late for me to change all my preferences to 5 (... because they will no doubt discern that I know about the RAAF but have little information about the Navy/Army...) should I still do this at OSB?
I.e., would putting 5 down for the other 2 services still increase my chances of getting offered any pilot role...? Or make me look unprepared for having chosen those preferences but not knowing enough about them?

NINJADAN.....

Sorry I didn't answer your preferences questions in the msg I sent.

When I arrived I had my preferences at RAAF:5, ARMY:3, NAVY:1.

I was told what I told you. It doesn't matter to change it whilst your there but you must know things about all 3 services, which isn't hard I didn't know much about Army/Navy (because these are helicopters, all I was interested in is fixed wing). I studied these 2 whilst there.

The Navy will give you a service brief to try and sway you to them. He will tell you (should be lieutenant Kidd) that you can change your preferences. All you need to do is go to the PSA building (through the sim door, its a little portable building) and ask them to change them for you. Also when you go to sit your OSB interview the Wing Commander will ask you if you would like them changed.

Very confusing information indeed ED. Some say you d it at the pilot specific testing, but this didn't happen for me. Therefore I am assuming it depends on your recruiting center, but don't take my word for it, I wouldn't.

The hat guy

do they give u uniforms during flight screening?

They give you a silly looking orange jump suit to fly in.

I am not an A level or newly graduated entrant - I graduated over 2 years ago and have been making my way in the big wide world so I have plenty of 9 til 5 to keep me occupied!

The AFCO interview went well - the officer said it is normal for peoples "extra-curricular" interests to drop off after uni, but seeing as I have taken up whitewater and slalom kayaking, running and downhill/cross country mountain biking, the reverse was true.

To be honest, a 4 month wait is fine by me - I would relish the extra time to get fitter.

I had a quick scan through this thread and couldn't find anything relating to this:

"What are the roles of a Sergeant WSOp?"

I understand the roles of a WSOp, but what would my role as a sergeant involve?

Any info would be greatly appreciated... Cheers. :)

Before anyone else jumps in, smart question.

A non-aircrew sgt in the RAF will have served possibly 12 years with maybe 5 years as a cpl. A corporal is seen as the first step in management and a competent cpl is worth more than a new flying officer. It follows that a sgt is hugely competent in his job. That, as an aircrew sgt aged 20, is what you must measure up against. In short, there is no contest.

Never-the-less, in terms of command and control in the wider air force you will wear your 3 stripes and have all the powers of command and discipline comsensurate with your rank. Awesome.

At Cranwell you will find yourself as orderly sergeant and the front man on the whole station during your 24 hr duty. You may be a guard commander and responsible for a number of armed guards.

You will be senior to any ground trade corporal but initially you will know next to nothing. You must be open to advice and guidance from subordinates.

However you will largey be sheltered and mentored by your fellow aircrew. They will be sympathetic and help you.

I will leave it to others nearer the coal face to elaborate.

Final question for you, why not go for a commission and pilot?

You might want to consider adding a team sport/activity or two!

Hi, is there anyone here who knows anything about New Zealand's military flight screening and pilot testing? If so please PM.

Cheers

Hi Everyone,

I will be attending the Flight Screening Course starting 24 November and ending 6 December. My flight hours are minimal (and aren't recent!) so I will be flying in the basic stream. It will no doubt be a great experience.

I've trawled through these forums and around the WWW but I haven't found much information regarding the actual flying undertaken whilst on course. I understand the first 7 basic course flights are in the CT-4B and the final 3 in the CAP-10. What are the main differences between flying these aircraft (other than ground handling with the CAP-10's tail-wheel) and is the transition between them difficult?

Do the instructor's assume nil flight experience on the basic course? How quickly does the course progress (i.e. do you get to stalls, steep turns, spins, inverted flight, etc.?)?

Any feedback would be well appreciated.

Thanks,

Rory

P.S. Is there anyone else out there attending the same course (24 November - 6 December)?