Does it really seem excessive that (for ADFA entry anyway) they would take in around 30 pilots a year?

Bit worrying hearing that more than 50% of the pilots fail! Might have to start doing some more private training throughout ADFA!

failure rates vary from course to course, 50% is high but possible on one course. 20-30% average would be moe likely and 10-20% make jets. Don't let the numbers scare you its def achievable.

Absolutely, if you start worrying about the statistics you will never get there in the first place.

Not worrying, just want to be proactive and learn all I can before commencing flying training. Should be able to get my GFPT before christmas :E

Second that!
 

Georgo and Joker, I'll second that!
Don't let anything deter you from working hard and aimming high. If you want it hard enough, you'll work hard enough for it, and regardless of intakes - you'll be putting forward a strong case for appointment.
Unless you are told by a qualified source, as in someone who works in Canberra at Defence, I would take what you hear on number of intakes as sheer rumour. Those numbers are secret business, repeat secret. Yes the intakes are low this year, and possibly will continue to be in the future, but that is about it. Unfortunately CJ0203, what you hear at FSP comes from trainee pilots in a place rife with rumour - see beginning of paragraph.
One thing everyone seems to have neglected is that the 2010 FSP schedule is up on the RAAF website. The number of spots is the same in 2010, but with an additional 18 spots for Observer applicants. The number of DE spots is down in 2010 (159) from 2009 (177), and the number of ADFA spots is up in 2010 (117) from 2009 (99). It may not sound like a lot, but that is a pretty big shift towards ADFA, at least in the recruiting stage. How these numbers carry through in terms of intakes, it's anybodies guess??????
Fail rate varies from course to course, but over the long-term, about 50% is a fair call. The learning curve is very steep, over a long period of time. Limited resources require this to be the case in order to maximise productivity.
Again, don't let numbers deter you - the good get through no matter what. Pilots course is definitely passable - many people have been through it and many will in the future. Many have failed ADF pilots course and gone onto be civilian pilots who have done well. Failing ADF pilots course does not mean you cannot be a pilot, it just says you do not meet those very high standards required by the military that are not so much in civilian aviation.

Hence the name of this website ryano.. (pp RUMOUR network :p).

In the end if you are good enough and have perseverance you will get through.

I know its thread drift but I just want to try and confirm where these 50% scrub rates are coming from. When I went thought we lost 1 person at BFTS and 5 people at 2FTS. And that was in line with the percentages I gave in my previous post. Those percentages were also, in general, not any better or worse than other courses I have seen go though. Perhaps its changed but 50% was more like the ARMY scrub rate at BFTS. RAAF and NAVY seemed to perform on average much better. Anyway might be wrong....

My course started with 24 RAAF/RAN and 10 Army.

12 RAAF/RAN passed 2FTS and 4 Army passed Kiowa conversion.

But that was back in the day when course was actually hard and 2FTS was not a sausage factory ;)

To people who say if you work hard enough anything is possible.... Its just not true, there were some guys on my course who worked like mad men studying every spare moment. You either have it or you dont.

I qoute Joker89;
"When I went thought we lost 1 person at BFTS and 5 people at 2FTS."

May I ask what happens to these individuals when they realise that they don't what it takes to become a pilot? Are they allowed to leave the force all together or do they find some role in the defence force and follow through with their IMPS?

... Knowing full well that all they ever wanted to become was a pilot and nothing else.

Also interested to find out the answer to this question.. I would imagine they would be placed into another roll to finish the imps.

ATC, ACO, OPSO, INTELO, ADMINO or LOGO for those who wish/have to stay. The others leave to pursue flying outside defence or return to some other industry.

IMPS (more commonly called ROSO - Return Of Service Obligation) is only valid for direct entry if you finish pilots course, if you go ADFA you will still have IMPS/ROSO of at least a couple of years, which they will generally extract from you in some way.

My course start with 16 at 2FTS and 8 passed, but like slezy that was in the bad old days.

Well done on getting through the tests mate. Have a look at the FSP schedule for this year and next before you feel down on your luck. It depends on when you will get the call from PSA for two reasons. A) How good of an applicant you are and B) when PSA receives your file and what courses they have running. You could be the best DE applicant - they won't be putting you on FSP until a DE course is being run.

Without taking your application into account, if PSA only received your file in September, the DE FSP courses for October were probably already filled. The courses in November and December are all ADFA, they shut down over Christmas. The first FSP for DE is middle of Jan '10, they won't start filling that for a while yet. From there they run all the way through to the end of May - so you may not hear anything until March or so next year.

In terms of your other tests - the results will expire if you change job preferences or withdraw your application and then reapply again in the future. Best to check with recruiting though, but one hundred percent positive on it - if you have passed all the tests to date, you will not have to do them while your file is at PSA. Even after you've been to FSP and waiting in a selection pool, all your test results are still valid and will not expire.

It is a waiting game my friend, patience is a virtue.

Hi all,

I'm up for Pilot Specific Testing in December and I'm not sure exactly what to wear (suit?,neat casual). Obviously a suit would be worn to Assement day but i'm not quite sure what the case would be for separate testing.

I've got a reasonable idea of what i'm up for on the day, but please feel free to tell me I've missed or mistaken anything.

-Computer based math test (simple stuff from what I've heard)
-Paper based test (more complex aviation math probs., instrument comp.)
-Co-ordination test ("WOMBAT" I think)

Regarding flight screening courses (In the hope that I get into one). I've got around 15 hours flying gliders and will almost definately clock up even more in the next few weeks. Would this put me in the advanced group in Flight Screening (not having a clue as to how to use an engine might be a bit of a disadvantage :) )

Thankyou in advance for all replies
Cheers,

I could well be wrong here, but I'm under the impression that you are free of IMPS up to a certain point at BFTS (eg. if you failed within the first couple of weeks you probably wouldn't get the whole 11.5 years). Matters like that are of little interest anyway, none of us plan to fail right? For me personally, this is one contingency that I haven't given thought to because I wouldn't think twice about accepting a ROSO of twice the actual amount just for a chance at BFTS.

On a different note, I realise that one of the desired traits in a potential RAAF recruit is good time management. I've held jobs throughout school and Uni and I've never had a problem with managing my time, however I haven't had one for the past year as I'd saved enough to make it through (and do a little flying on the side!), the extra time on my hands ensuring that I maintain a nice grade average. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect it seems like that may not have been the best choice (ie. suggest I have poor time management skills). Has anyone been in a similar situation, or have any idea how it is likely to affect my application?

AlexanderB -

People who have logged over 20 hours do the advanced course. Although I think this might need to be 20 hours of powered flight. Either way you should be right.

MudRatt -

When I sat my OSB (earlier this year) I wasn't employed. I had worked throughout high school and college and for the next year (Uni) I hadn't worked at all. It wasn't even mentioned in the interview though.

Wannabe- Advanced do more sorties in the CAP10 including aerobatics.

:ok:

35 started on my course in 1985 and 17 finished in 1986. Aaaargh...when I were a lad.........etc etc.
The course is just as hard now as when it was then lads.
What is different is the "governance" B.S. associated with it. Back in the bad ol' days the CFI would scrub you just because he thought your eyes were too close together and he was in a bad mood. Today the justification and paperwork required, coupled with the lack of gumption displayed by some in charge fearing a redress means to actually suspend a poor student is a lot harder.

From memory, the difference between Beginner's and Advanced on FSP is:
Beginners: 7 sorties in CT4B and 3 in a CAP10.
Advanced: 5 sorties in CT4B and 5 in the CAP10, performing the same manoeuvres and aerobatics, and then with a few extra thrown in (barrel roll, slow roll and inverted flight to mention a few).
The Advanced course moves at a faster pace to fit the extra bits in, meaning there is less time in the aircraft per manoeuvre, plus you have to do them mostly in a more fiddly aircraft!

For all those aspiring leaders, an interesting read (or listen if you wish), written by the retired General Peter Cosgrove on the topic of leadership.
Boyer Lectures - 22November2009 - Lecture 3: Leading In Australia
Could be handy to throw in when you sit your board ;-)

It wouldn't be so bad on the advanced course if you were good enough.. the cap10 (although small) is an awesome aircraft!

RAAF YOU Session aptitude test
 

Hey, for those who have done the YOU session aptitude test before, will I be faced with questions regarding speed calc, time calc, distance calc and fuel consumption? If these are on the test how many variables do they throw into it?

I've had a shot at a model plane, pretty fun.

You really should try gliding, its great fun. I recently went to a XC gliding comp. in a two seater, a five hour flight with me taking four of those in command. Theres not much else like thermalling in lift the width of an oval with 10 other gliders within 200m of you. You really do get a sore neck.

What sort of equations?...

I'm pretty much right for the instrument interpretation tests and speed distance time and fuel consumption type things but what other kinds of questions would I be up for?, Trig?

I've had a look about on the net for the ADF aviator game but can't really find much. Any ideas?

Cheers,

"Remember the 5 P's, (Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance)"

Alex, the maths equations come in 2 parts, the first you will see will be a bunch of multiple choice answers, where the essence of a win is to do it quickly.
its been over a year since i took the test, but the one question i do remember from that is the one i had a brain-fart on.

2 airports, 500 miles/nm/ks/units whatever away,
Plane leaves airport a heading for B at 360 mph/kts/kmh/units
plane leaves airport b heading for a at 240 mph/kts/kmh/units

when and where will they meet.

Then, while youre doing the stick excersize, you will have one where you are given two random numbers that you have to do something with, Such as multiply them and then deduct the difference between them from the total, you have something like 5 seconds to select an answer per question, while balancing the little circle inside the big circle wiht a joystick.
hmm.. its easier then it sounds.

They sent me a CD for adf aviator when i put pilot in my application form, its about a trillion megabytes and has a beutiful 3d environment with 3 missions, 1 in a tiger, 1 in a hornet, and 1 in a seahawk, Itd be fun if we could get a "post your best scores" thing going on here, it is a fun game.
try a google search or maybe isohunt, i found this with google FAQ | Defence Jobs looks like you can get it posted to you. if worst comes to worse i can try and find the disk [head>desk] and upload it.

AlexanderB, the questions that are fired at you in that segment are basic maths that won't stray far from your times tables, however you will be required to 'process' these answers in certain ways and submit an aswer based on this.

In summary you will be required to perform a fine manual task with a flightstick, whilst you have to not only solve a question but also think on your feet. Its not as daunting as it sounds and if you make sure you brush up on your mental arithmetic, which is a given considering the nature of the job, and perhaps spend a bit of time on a flight sim you'll be as prepared as you can be.

I hope you can count beyond 5! It looks like there is 6 there.

7 Ps?
 

proper prior preparation prevents piss-poor performance

Just don't quote the 7P's in mil writing. Yes, seen it done and it went very badly for the poor soul...

Thanks for the all the advice, I'll remember if I ever quote something to check it first. Just a bit embassasing.

I was just wondering, why does the DefenceJobs website display pilot as a priority job? I was under the impression that there's more than enough applicants in the waiting pools, is the demand for pilots really that high or are they just setting themselves up so as to pick the best of a larger group. Are they going for a higher quantity or quality? Any ideas on this one?

The next two weeks are going to be pretty hectic for me, I've got my testing right in the middle of my Semester 2 exams, this is gonna be fun.

Pilot Priority
 

The ADF is always looking for high quality applicants to fill pilot positions and so it will always be advertised as "priority". Even though supply and demand of applicants will vary over time, in order to ensure quality at all times, you always have to look for it. If you try an "off and on" approach, and try to match it with future needs, you end up worse off. You'll notice other positions in the ADF that require quality applicants will also be advertised as priority - virtually all the time, for the same reasons. Remember, there's always jobs going - sometimes more and sometimes less.

PS: The same applies to applicants as well - don't try and time your application!! Apply when you feel you're the best you can be and don't worry about the rest!!

Hey there I am new to all this and just wanted to know whether anyone is going to be on Flight Screening on the 16th of January??
I had a call from Tamworth today and they are sending out some information soon. Is there any extra stuff I can do to stand out at Tamworth? I plan on reading this entire thread, additional reading and also some flying lessons.
Thanks guys this forum is great!!
Just Pm me or post here if you also got an offer for the 16th of Jan.

Ah this thread is revived!
JayD well done on getting to FSP, especially the second one of the year. Hopefully your instructors had a good Christmas holiday - but I don't think taking a bag of candy-canes down would help you out. Do as you said; read this thread, go for a lesson or two (if you want) and prepare yourself for a fun and full-on two weeks. Any questions, post them here.
Cheers
PS: How have some of the other guys who have recently posted on here gone with all their testing??

Assessment day tomorrow! I feel prepared for it and I've put some work in so I should be ok. Hopefully it will run smooth and I'll earn my place on one of the January FSP courses too :ok:

To give you an idea of the time frame some can expect:

1. Applied for Pilot position in the ADF early 2008
2. Did Flight Screening in March 2009
3. Starting BFTS in Feb 2010

If you're looking at skills to develop, start working on your patience :)

Dan

Yeah, Like Steward:}

Advertised as prority

from the website:
An exciting workplace and fantastic pay make this role in all aspects of food and beverage service a rewarding one. Training provided.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Good luck all.


I'll get my coat....

Patience! Now there's a virtue I can surely understand. Started my application in November 2005, and due to some complications I am now finally at assessment day. Nothing wrong with a touch of optimism though :ok:

From what I can gather, there doesn't seem to be a 'typical' case as far as waiting goes.

Wow mate, that's probably one of the worser cases i've heard.

Well goodluck from now on.

Pilot Specific Testing today, success. I'm pretty sure I aced the instrument and spatial testing but I will admit that the second maths test is pretty tricky.

Looks like I'm up for the Interviews sometime early next year.

Thanks to all those who helped, great advice.

Finished assessment day yesterday. It was a huge day, got there at 0900 and left at 1700, most of which was spent sitting in the waiting room watching DFR videos! Anyway, in the end it was all worth it - I got my recommendation for pilot and OSB, so my file is off to PSA. They suggested that it would not be unlikely that I'd get a spot on one of the January courses, however at the end of the day they aren't PSA so I'll just have to keep my prep up and wait for the call.

Would like to congratulate Mudrat, I've followed your journey through this forum and a few other forums. Amazed with your determination amongst the let downs.

Well done Mudrat! I too, am still in the process of a long and arduous application! It's always nice to hear of people getting through. :)