I remember seeing an accident report where an Air Cadet Sedburgh glider (so its exactly a recent incident) was hit whilst airborn by a model aircraft. The photo accompanying the report showed the model embeded in the rear fuselage of the glider. The report described the damage to the Barge as 'one longeron severed and another split.'Those of you who might remember the Barge, will realise that apart from four wood longerons the rest of the fusealge structure was dopped cotton.

Shoreham & model a/c generally
 

The approach into Shoreham Airport from inland crosses a reasonably large hill which seems regularly used by R/C model aircraft; they were certainly close enough to be worth a special look-out, and a collision was distinctly on the cards.

We also flew through a large formation of microlights just East of there one day, completely unknown to ATC. Fortunately we were in a clapped-out Cessna 172 so the closing speed was relatively low.

A fair few years ago I remember a mention in 'Feedback' that a Tornado suffered what was thought to be a major birdstrike, may have lost an engine - can't remember all the details.

On inspection pieces of Futaba radio control kit & servo's were found imbedded in the relevant intake...

For anyone flying low over North Somerset, Crook's Peak in the Mendips ( a bit west of Axbridge & Cheddar ) is a very active R/C site well worth avoiding.

With fond memories of evening flights, waffling along at < 30kts in the barge, I presume the model aircraft struck the T21 rather than vice versa...

Silly question, but if the aircraft you are in happens to be armed, would the aircrafts self defence system not pick up the heat of a large jet powered model aircraft heading towards you (assuming its a missile) at a fast pace and either warn you, or simply blast the offending article out of the sky before it gets near you?

So, let's sum up this thread

....in the blue corner we have the folks that have either smashed into or know about someone who has smashed into a R/C model aircraft......

.......and in the red corner we have the folks who admit to flying R/C model aircraft but who never, never, ever transgress the rules and conflict with the real ones.

I spy some inconsistencies somewhere :}

Ah sigh the T-21. Did my first solo in one. Felt like a sky God!!

I think the RC guys were talking about their own clubs who fly on known flying fields. Surely there would have been some kind of communication between the RAF and the governing body (BMFA, LMA etc) or vice versa?

It is in your interest as some of these models take a long time to build and are works of art, it would be tragic if you stomped all over it with your yucky tonka bully bird :) :)

Also the way you use "folks who admit to flying R/C".......it's not some kind of bondage or minor drug use.:\

It is a good bet that anyone posting on this forum is more than a casual observer of aviation. As such they are likely not the type who would be idiotic enough to fly an R/C model in a place likely to be frequented by any kind of air traffic. It's the casual hobbiest that goes down to his local hobby store, buys a $200 model, and flies it without regard to any kind of safety that you need to worry about.

Most serious modelers (those who have been in the hobby for a while) are very safety aware. They go to great pains to protect spectators, other hobbiests, aircraft, and their own models. The "toys" shown in the video at the top of this thread cost upwards of $10,000. I don't know many people who take undue risks with stuff that cost that much money.

I used to fly R/C models, and I know many professional pilots who do so.

One thing to remember is that anyone posting on this forum is likely to have a respect for professional aviation, and not be stupid enough to fly a model anywhere it could potentially endanger aircraft. It's the casual hobbiest - the one who runs down to his local hobby store and buys a $200 toy - that you have to worry about. The guys with the big expensive heavy aircraft (like were shown in the video at the top of the thread) are VERY safety aware.

I must admit to building and flying scale R/C model up until the mid eighties, but I only flew them on Shoreham airport after it closed at 1800. The Anson required a CAA exemption certificate as it was over the weight limit at the time. Apart from the Storch, the models had retractable undercarriages and needed the runway's smooth surface to operate from. The gliders flew from Truleigh Hill on the east side of the approach to RW 20

RWiaircrafthttp://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ft/Harvard.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...Spitflying.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...t/9e6a1889.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...atShoreham.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...rdairborne.jpg

Tegwin,

What sort of 'self defence system' have you in mind fitted to aircraft ?

As far as I know, if you're really lucky you might get something that goes ' bleep ' and chucks out chaff or flares as it thinks appropriate, but I don't think there's anything like an auto cannon / missile / laser to blast incoming bad news like a warship's goalkeeper...

A jamming system on R/C frequencies might be worth a laugh, or may just exacerbate the problem and shift the blame.

I think that the amount of times that a model aircraft has actually collided with a full size is probably very small, I would have thought that bird strikes posed a far greater risk. As a Pilot of full size aircraft myself I do see things from both sides but at the end of the day the vast majority operate these models with care and attention to others. Live and let live. If you fly an aircraft at very low level and high speed outside controlled airspace then surely that must come with some risk, whether that be birds, paragliders, hangliders, power lines or model aircraft.

There is, essentially, a requirement for model aircraft flyers to avoid flying in controlled airspace in such a manner as to endanger aircraft. The official clubs try very hard indeed to ensure this is treated very seriously - unfortunately if you are flogging round at 3 ft 6" outside controlled airspace then the best a model flyer can do is avoid what (s)he has time to avoid... and if you are flogging around at several hundred knots then that scale model Tiger Moth just isn't going to get out of the way in time.

I can't help wondering where some of these airmiss events occurred - I can understand how the odd valley up here in Scotland might lead to very low level flight, but what the **** was a glider doing low enough for a model a/c to hit it - or was the model being flown over the airfield the gliding was occurring at? (For one example)... nobody with an actual brain - second hand, transplanted from a marrow or not - would fly a model on the approach/departure path of a runway, for example. Even BIG models are quite small when actually flying, the mk1 eyeball tends to limit the range and altitude soemwhat.

A regular flyer will be more than happy to avoid colliding with you.

The 'rogue' modeler - the guy who buys the ready to fly job without bothering to join a club or get any help is unlikely to be flying anything very large, and they won't be flying it very high in all probability (it's hard to spot a 40" span Cessna when it's 800 yds downwind, climbing through 250 ft).

Perhaps it might be an idea if there was a website with zoomable OS style maps on, which clubs and individuals could check to see if somebody was planning to fly at zero feet from A to B during some specific time period... that way the model lot could ensure they were gorunded when a real aircraft needed the airspace. Modelers being keen spotter types would doubtless be more than happy to keep the pride and joy grounded for 20 minutes while some interesting fast jets went past.

Dave

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_010/nn_415..._3X306-1-2.pdf

this is a link (german only) to an accident report of a Grob 109 powered glider colliding with a 10 kg model aircraft. 4.3 meter of the right wing broke off and the G109 crashed killing both occupants.

A truly terrible tragedy but who has the sole right to use the uncontrolled airspace? Whats the answer? Do we ban all model flying? How do you stop idiots flying near airfields with full size activity? I've been involved in model flying for over 25 years and thankfully never witnessed or even heard of any model/full size accidents.

Interestingly if you look at most of the technology used in the manufacture and flying of military UAV's they are from the model flying world. The engines, airframe, control systems have all been developed from 50 years or so of RC model flight.

Maybe better communication from both sides would help, go along one day to the local model flying site and see for yourselves what goes on, you might be surprised at the level of technology and understanding of aerodynamics from us 'nerds!'

Your average model flyer is probably a middle aged or retired gent, probably from a professional background, quite often an engineer or retired airline Pilot, these people are not spotty 17 year olds who terrorise the pensioners on street corners wearing a hoody!:E

I wasn't too impressed only a few weeks ago at the sight of a red R/C model at 1500 ft.

It was inside the Heathrow control zone, just north west of Brent reservoir, probably being flown by someone out of Fryent Country Park. Not only is that a very commonly used route and altitude for rotary wing in and out of Battersea, but also 5 nms on the Northolt instrument approach.

I have just dug out my old log book, found an entry for July 1975.
RAF Odiham, instructing with the Army Gliding Club. At 450' downwind in a T21 when an aircraft appeared climbing straight ahead of our a/c immediately followed by a loud "twang". The pupil somehow had headed towards the footwell, still strapped in!! On landing it transpired that the "aircraft" was in fact a model of about 10' span still on it's launching cable(fishing Line). The T21 had what looked like a hacksaw cut extending through the "D" box to a depth of about 4 inches about three feet away from the vicinty of the pupil's head.

Fair do's, I give in. It should be banned, I'm taking up golf instead!

On one occasion last year I was gliding out of Portmoak airfield on the shores of Loch Leven. For those of you unfamiliar with the airfield, its primarily a gliding airfield with two ridges along the shore of the Loch which gliders generally fly back and forth along in order to gain some height before heading off elsewhere to look for some thermals/wave.

On the said occasion, there were about 5 gliders 'ridge bashing', all of which were following the standard procedure (going the same way) when some guys with model gliders turned up and unknown to most of us, began flying them randomly amongst all of manned gliders.

I glanced around keeping a good lookout as one does when I saw a model glider heading straight for my cockpit that looked like it was certainly within 10-15meters. I took evading action but this could have put both me and the other manned gliders on the ridge in serious danger of a collision!

Was definately a brown trouser moment.

I dont mind model aircraft sharing the same airspace as manned gliders but it would be helpful if they followed the same procedures as the rest of us! :ok:

Taxying to the tower at Benson to get out and watch my student's circuits, a golf ball hit the ground in front of the right wing, then bounced over it and hit the fuselage.....

So I pocketed it, sent my student on his merry way, then watched the saddos hunting around for the ball.

Only station I know where golf was permitted on the aerodrome whilst flying was in progress. Lots of retired old duffers :bored: wandering around with their bats, never mind the hazard to aircraft.

I left the ball in a fire bucket.