"Oh, I see, arrived on time "to the second." Nothing wrong with Irrelevant Aircraft and their planning. Its all you millions of rugby fans who are the problem."

no you muppet what he's saying is the F3's arrived when they were instructed to by the event organisers

they can only go by the instructions they're given

if the F3's turn up when they're told to and the event organisers timings are out, how is that the RAF's fault?

Most people in the stadium would probably only hear the noise of the jets for a second or two and might (if lucky) catch a fleeting glimpse of the aircraft.

Nice idea to have a flypast in principle, but totally pointless to have one over an enclosed stadium which will take less than half a second to fly over.

Whilst I wouldn't agree with BM's tone, I'd agree it was a waste of time and not required for future matches as it adds nothing to the event.

If the RAF want a bit of PR at such games, send their band or a drill team. At least the spectators might see something and relate to it.

Dunno.........flyby's....these look OK ish....
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSQT...eature=related

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAgQN...eature=related


oh what was the score anyway....:suspect:

3-1 to Arsenal, Blanchflower, Matthews and Greaves got the first 3, Blenkinsop pulled one back for Bradford in extra time.

Glad to help...

:ouch: ;)

KnowItAll

" If the F3's turn up when they're told to and the event organisers timings are out, how is that the RAF's fault?"

Agreed, partly. Its not entirely the RAF's fault. But the RAF should have the PR nous to know that a badly-timed fly-past at an event where fly-past's are a considerable, over-the-top irrelevance is worse than not appearing at all.

They should have had someone in the stadium say 'call it off,' or arranged to do it at halftime, or been stacked to come in earlier, as required.

This is the same RAF that so misunderstands the public it had to cancel its whole Spirit of the Air shows after the very first, abyssmal, show at Abingdon last summer.

Bombedup6. You seem to be 180 out with public opinion. You are bewilderingly critical of the RAF's PR machine.

You have, in the past, questioned the existence of the Red Arrows and provided us with a 'public view' of how mundane they are. If that is what you believe then I would encourage you to visit an airshow this summer. At Kemble last year the small crowd cheered and clapped so loudly that the jet noise was drowned out. The public recognise the Red Arrows as British excellence which promotes the military at home and the UK abroad.

I think you are totally wrong about the Murrayfield flypast. The opportunity to see a front-line jet on display was a magnificent achievement in PR. Brian Moore's comments are irrelevant. For millions of people to see the jet that protects the UK on operations 24 hours a day is great PR and far more impressive than any non-televised event. I would have thought you would have fully supported this?

I partly agree with you about the Abingdon event. Hopefully lessons have been learnt.

CM

Regardless of the pros and cons of an F3 flypast, I'm fed up with the SRFU continualy doing the "Braveheart" rubbish for every International. National Anthems, like EVERBODY ELSE and if you have to, present the Princess Royal.

Forget the rest.

I heard that they were late because they considered flying across to Ireland’s Croke Park in honour of the Triple Crown for Wales.

i don't get it
 

bombedup6,

I don't really understand your point old chap. Are you saying you'd have called it off? And if so, for what reason?

As for - i say again that they were bang on time to the second as requested.

r2

r2 unit,
You seem remarkably well informed about the timing of the flypast. Were you some how connected or just an innocent passenger? :ok:

Does anyone here actually know who organised the flypast?

Did Murrayfield or the SRFU contact the 'local' RAF station across the water and make the request for a flypast to add a bit of something different to their rugby extravaganza
OR
Did the RAF PR machine ring up and say please, please can we bring a whole load of people in at the weekend to provide a 3 second overhead flypast for an international rugby match?
OR
Did someone at said RAF Station get offered a few freebie tickets in return?:confused:

Silly little row
 

An ill-conceived idea leading to an ill-conceived remark. Best forgotten.

Sometimes flypasts work, sometimes they don't.

We had to wait for 50 posts before someone got to the point of Brian Moore's comment. I think he was as fed up as everyone else with all that Braveheart sh!te that we get every time at Murrayfield.

BTW, well done Scotland on your win. Oooooh, that was painful ! :{

S_H

Is there any footage of said flypast, did the have the burners or was it a whisper past at 1000' that no-one in the stadium noticed?

What was the score?

Was a low speed flypast, serf


Can't seem to remember the score, for some reason.... :E

Could always post a comment to him through his website ...

http://www.brianpitbullmoore.co.uk/index.cfm

;)

The thing about flypasts is that timing has to be perfect - on the part of ALL concerned. How do you control the timing of two rugby teams, sundry officials, event organisers, bands, the media and 70,000 spectators? Did they all synchronise watches on "hack"? How much rehersal did the aforesaid thousands do in order to time their activities so that everything could be co-ordinated to the second?

The last time I did a flypast was at a the end of a BoB cocktail party. The band was playing The Last Post, the RAF Ensign on the flagpole in front of the mess was being lowered in time with it, and just as the Ensign hit the bottom the band played the last note and we arrived spot on, fast and low, from behind the assembled mess members, guests and dignitaries and pulled up into the night sky with burners lit. Those assembled said it was very impressive and brought a lump to the throat and a tear to the eye. But it had taken planning and co-ordination and split-second timing between the bandmaster, the SWO, ATC and ourselves.

A fly past for an audience in a stadium? What a daft idea. And if it was late and thus delayed the game (the reason that the people were there in the first place) then yes I can understand people frustration. It should have been cancelled.

Perhaps an AAC Apache landing in the stadium pirouetting around whilst aiming the locking onto various objects with the gun and then delivering the match ball would have been a bit more of a spectacle and would have hammered home the "by the way, we are fighting a couple of wars" message.

Yes the commentator made an unfortunate comment as it was on national tv, but he was only voicing what many were probably thinking.

Serf,

As no one else wants to post it I will:

15 - 9 in Scotland's favour.

BTW, thanks to the Tornado crews for the late (ish) flypast. On a positive note dear Jonny was just that little bit wetter and colder. Spoiled his whole day I think :)

I was sat in the west stand and the flypast was pretty good considering the claggy weather. Not as good as Measles at Kent though. Unfortunately, as an Englishman, it was just about the highlight of the day - apart from the opportunity to have a few beers with some rugby mates. Shame about Mooro's comment - you can't accuse him of being a bland commentator or lacking opinions. You take the rough with the smooth - rather insensitive on this occasion perhaps.
To add insult to injury - I just passed over a bottle of malt having lost a bet with a Scottish colleague! It wasn't the losing that hurt most - just the pain of having to listen to the cursed Proclaimers over and over again in the pubs!!!

Inspector D,
Do you mean the kind of "training" in this video? Alice not Kent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zmTaahQAs

BTW you can't call them Measels any more, something to do with encouraging low flying.

I recall sitting in the dining room at Mt Kent in 1995 with the MPA Gp Capt (now a 2 star) and an F3 crew (Piers was the nav). We all pretended that the roof was definitely not shaking during some rather adjacent operational trg. No-one said a word!

as sports go, if it don't run on petrol, methanol, turps etc, it ain't worth a w:mad:k!!!!

Just heard on the news that Wilkinson has been dropped for the England v Ireland match. Lets hope that is the end of the opportunist drop kick era. It would be nice if the Scotland selectors follow suit and bin Parks. We may then see some creative Rugby.:D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were late.

If they had showed up on time then we wouldn't be having this 4 page discussion.

Perhaps the F-3 fleet should conduct a proper time hack before they go flying next time!!!!

Or better still, convert to a better platform.

So, were they late or not? Whichever, can't say I'm impressed by this comment:
No more difficult than achieving a TOT I would have thought.

Couldn't agree with you more. It was piss poor and no matter how individuals want to flower it up, they need to eat some humble pie, admit they screwed up and move on. All these excuses about weather blah blah blah just smacks of unprofessionalism. You screwed up, take the hit and this thread would only be a page long!!!:ugh:

C'mon guys lighten up. So they were late, so what ? Also remember they just didn't fly over the stadium they flew over a large portion of Edinburgh and would have been sighted by tens of thousands of people on the ground. It probably brightened up an otherwise dull day for a lot of people.

Anyway that's in the past.............we can now look forward to Ireland doing the business at Twickenham next Saturday.:)

Not only were they late, they were totally and utterly pointless and a very poor reflection upon the management team behind the pilots, who themselves must be very angry at the farce.

The only thing the MOD can offer to brighten up anyone's day is the Red Arrows and we all know that they have more needy and proper demands upon their time.

It was an embarrasing farce, typical of poor organisation by the Scottish RFU and the MOD,
Brian Moore was absolutely spot on - may it never ever happen again.

Has it actually been shown, anywhere, that they were in fact "late" ?? The only reference I can find to them being "late" is the television comment by Mr Moore .. just why is his word given so much credence ??

Most flypasts EITHER have a specific time or the aircraft are "called in" by ground comms .... which was the case here ???

If it was a SPECIFIC time ... just how far "off" were they, if any ??? If they were "called in" then it probably wasn't their "fault"... either way .. there are an awful lot of assumptions being made in this thread .. and very few facts .....


As I was always taught ... don't make ann ASS out of U and ME

;);)

niknak,
I beg to differ with the whole of your post!
Still smarting? Its only a game :E

OmegaV6 - the voice of reason :D

I've lost the thread!

They were not late. Anyone who says so is speaking out of their a..., but that's not what's important. I suspect most of the posts here are from those who wish they could do it, and/or, couldn never have done it in the first place.

Everyone else with a negative comment is a w..... and should get off this forum and go prattle somewhere else.

Await more specious comments.:ugh:

Whether they were late or not is irrelevant, the timing was, for whatever reason, wrong. If the 3 second exercise was to be done at all it should have been done at half time when no one would have been inconvenienced if it had been a minute or so either way from a given time.

Bit arrogant that o knowledgeable one "anyone who disagrees with what I think is a winker and should take their prattle elsewhere". Still, I would defend your right to express your views however idiotic they may sound.

Half time great idea! So if there is a cock up anywhere in the timing the F3s can fly through shot as the camera pans up for one of the never ending series of kicks. For those who want clarity on facts I suggest you scroll back to r2 units comments.

I suspect the F3 chaps arrived to the second, as briefed, because they are professionals, just like the rest of the RAF. Should they have been there at all? Who knows, but I don't see the point. Is Brian Moore's nickname Thrush for nothing? No, he is an irritating ****. That said, he's often right when it comes to rugby, especially so on Saturday when England indulged in a bout of pointless kicking to nowhere in particular.

Were England crap? Absolutely the worst England display since the last crappy England display. Scotland would have had to turn up in stiletto heels to have lost. Scotland are a poor team this season, but even so they deserved the win.

As for all that Braveheart stuff, give it a rest guys. Look forward, not backwards. And Braveheart was a pretty poor movie. Surely there's more to be said for Scotland than we won a battle a long time ago and we can't move on. Or maybe not?

The Truth!
 

OK, enough. Here are the facts:

1. The original TOT was 15:14:50 - that is 10 sec before the game was due to be kicked off.
2. A revised but [U]unpublished[U] TOT of 15:19:50 was selected by the SRU some days before the game.
3. The formation received another 1 min slip 3 mins before TOT, i.e. the new TOT was now 15:20:50 for a kick off at 15:21:00.
4. The TOT achieved by the formation was 15:20:50, EXACTLY the time requested by the SRU.

This thread, like many in this forum, is filled with people who are talking from a position of ignorance and therefore posting complete bollocks. These are the facts. I know because I was the formation leader and yes the weather was crap.
To my mind this finishes this thread, unless you want to talk more bollocks.

Roymac

The flypast was a waste of time - on time or otherwise. So was the match from my perspective. Full stop.

Brian Moore always entertains, unlike that Welsh tw*t with him. That Welsh tw*t's outrageous comment about Wilkinson taking a dive when he was strung up by the throat was typical of him and he deserved the verbal belting that Moore gave him. It probably went physical after the match.

Roymac

So you did as you were told, to the second. Well done. I'll blame the SRU for the timing.

The point remains that, to the players, officials, spectators and millions watching on TV you WERE late, and as a result you were indeed a "silly little spectacle".