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Northrup Grumman/EADS win USAF tanker bid
Decision expected to be announced in the next 24 hours....
NO WORD ON TANKER WINNER Mobile will have to wait at least one more day to learn its fate in the U.S. Air Force's aerial refueling tanker competition. The Air Force made no announcement Tuesday in the contest for one of the biggest and most hotly contested defense deals in years. A Pentagon executive board met Monday to review the Air Force's selection process for the proposed $40 billion, 179-plane tanker contract. The contest pits Boeing Co. and its KC-767 tanker against a rival team by led Northrop Grumman Corp. and EADS North America, which together are proposing to assemble their KC-30 tankers in a new factory at Mobile's Brookley Field Industrial Complex. Observers have widely predicted the contract is Boeing's to lose. The Chicago-based company built the Air Force's existing fleet of KC-135 tankers and has a powerful team of politicians supporting its bid in Congress. Northrop's KC-30 assembly plant would create up to 1,500 direct jobs in Mobile paying an average wage of about $1,250 a week. Another 300 jobs would be added by Airbus, which has announced plans to shift production of commercial air freighters to Brookley contingent on winning the tanker contract. The KC-30 tanker is based on a French-made Airbus A330 jet. Defense analysts said the secrecy surrounding the Air Force's decision was unusual, given the size of the contract and the fact that leaking such details is a political sport in Washington, D.C. Monday's meeting of the Defense Acquisition Board, which signs off on major weapons buys, was one of the final steps toward a decision. The Air Force is waiting for John Young, the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, to sign a memorandum authorizing the service to move ahead with an award. A Pentagon spokeswoman said the memorandum had not been issued as of late Tuesday but gave no further details. Once the document is signed, the Air Force is expected to brief key Congressional leaders and the companies before publicly disclosing its choice. The announcement could be made as early as today, but not before U.S. financial markets close at 4 p.m., according to the Pentagon. Defense analyst Loren Thompson, who has followed the competition closely, said there was a 60 percent chance the award could be made today. Lt. Col. Jennifer Cassidy, an Air Force spokeswoman, said the service was at pains to prevent a news leak. "We're very conscious of the stakes, so we're keeping this as 'close hold' as we can so as not to jeopardize the process," she said. Congress killed an earlier $23.5 billion Air Force plan to lease 100 Boeing 767 tankers amid a procurement scandal that sent two former Boeing officials to prison and prompted the resignation of two senior Air Force officials. The Air Force has sought to keep the current competition as transparent and scandal-free as possible, meeting repeatedly with the rival bidders to explain the strengths and weaknesses of their respective proposals. But defense officials still expect the losing side to protest the award, given its sheer size and a spate of recent decisions faulting the Air Force on other arms programs. Reuters reported that EADS had already raised "substantial concerns" about the tanker acquisition process and changes in how the KC-30 was being evaluated, citing sources briefed on the discussions. Northrop and EADS declined to comment on the report. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley are scheduled to testify about the Air Force budget today before the House Armed Services Committee. They will testify regardless of whether the tanker contract has been awarded, said spokeswoman Lt. Col. Brenda Campbell. "That's not going to change," she said. |
My bet, a bit of both.
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This is starting to get interesting....
The decision was made on Monday and the announcement set for after the market closed on Wednesday to allow the members of congress to brief their states and let them know the decision first. The announcement has now been slipped till Friday when the market is shut for the weekend and, after meeting the state's congressional delegation, Washington's state governor has just said this at a press conference.... AeroNews: Washington Guv Raises Possibility Of Legal Action If KC-X Doesn't Go To Boeing At this writing, Boeing hasn't lost the US Air Force's KC-X contract to provide the service with new tankers just yet -- and many analysts feel a Boeing win over a team comprised of EADS and Northrop Grumman is all-but assured. But that didn't stop the governor of Washington from threatening a possible legal protest if Boeing is denied the contract. Speaking to reporters Tuesday after a meeting with the state's congressional delegation, Gov. Chris Gregoire said the state could file a congressional inquiry or take another course of action if Boeing isn't awarded the KC-X deal. A decision from the Air Force was originally said to be coming as soon as Wednesday evening... though officials said Wednesday afternoon not to expect an annoucement until Friday, at the earliest. Gregoire then stressed she still believes Boeing will come out on top, reports The Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "I'm banking on us getting it," she said. "I just think we win if it's done absolutely without politics, based on experience, work force, all of that. So I'm feeling good about this. "If we don't win, then I think there'll be a lot of questions asked about why in the world would Boeing, with that work force, that expertise, that experience, that history -- how could they not have gotten this?" Gregoire then added, muddying the waters somewhat. "My sense is there'll be a lot of questions raised and then we'll get into the protest."......... |
Elsewhere it's reported:
"Led by Republican Sen. John McCain, Congress in 2004 banned the Air Force from working a lease and purchase deal with Boeing after a federal investigation uncovered improprieties in the highest levels of the Air Force procurement process. Critics also complained Boeing was awarded the contract without competition and that the deal was a bailout for the 767 program, which was facing slumping sales. Congress forced the Air Force to start a new bidding plan that would allow Boeing rival Airbus to compete for the contract. Pentagon officials said the losing company could protest and ask the General Accountability Office to investigate the decision, which would delay the program again." Presumably that means whichever losing company could protest? Or was that a slip by both the Pentagon and Gregoire, implying that Boeing know that their Frankentanker has already lost? |
Legacy industrial area vs new southern industries
Democratic northwest vs Republican south Could get very ugly. The CSAR helicopter program has been held up protests for long time wouldn't be a surprised to see the same. |
"But that didn't stop the governor of Washington from threatening a possible legal protest if Boeing is denied the contract."
And Boeing isn't being subsidized???? :rolleyes: |
The Congressional mandate after the original Boeing lease fell apart (a plan concocted by Congress, mind you, as a bail-out for Boeing post 9/11) was simple.
Conduct a free, fair and open competition. Which Boeing wins. Tankers are not a core business for Northrop Grumman. UAVs are, and I'm calling NG to win BAMS next week and to see a big boost in Fire Scout in the next year or so. NG already has the classified demonstrator for the Next Generation Bomber. Lockheed Martin, which has a huge plant in Marietta that's starting to look very empty, did not even bother to bid, and the last thing that the US needs is another large-airplane assembly line. Because McCain got mediaeval on Boeing's rear end over the original lease, too, O-whama-bama would find some way to nail him with the USAF BUYS SURRENDER-MONKEY TANKER JET meme. I will be utterly smobgacked if this is anything but an all-767 award. |
IMHO, although there are 5(?) criteria under review, it will come down to this:
If it's capability-based, it's the KC-30 If it's politics-based, it's the KC-767 If it's time (for all of them)-into-service based, it's both. :confused: |
KC-X Award on 2/29/2008
Yes, it appears that politics probably played a role in the DAB decision for the winner- Boeing or NGC/EADS. With so many jobs at stake in the different constituent states, it's tough for the DOD and USAF to stay un-biased in this winner-take-all competition.
Next week, March 5 the DAB meets on BAMS- another competition decision. Interesting to me since my employer is NGC. |
I understand that the result will be made known after the US stock markets close today, Friday 29 February.
Elsewhere, it was reported yesterday that: Northrop Grumman stock was trading up 2.49%. Boeing stock was trading down 0.49%. Interestingly, the Malaysia Sun has already reported: US Air Force makes a deal with foreign supplier The U.S. Air Force has made an agreement with EADS, the European aircraft manufacturer, which has been vying against Chicago-based Boeing for the large military contract. Malaysia Sun Tuesday 26th February, 2008 EADS is the winner of a US$40 billion military aircraft contract to supply refuelling aircraft to the airforce. EADS will supply the USAF with a modified A330 with a larger capacity than the Boeing 767-200 plane which was on offer. However, I'd take their report with a pinch of salt! |
Indeed announcement due!
We'll learn of the outcome in about three hours time...
"PRESS RELEASE -- Secretary of the Air Force, Office of Public Affairs Release No. 030208 February 29,2008 Tanker Contract Award Announcement WASHINGTON - Secretary of the Air Force, Michael W. Wynne, and Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force, Gen. Duncan J. McNabb, will announce the KC-X contract award winner in the OSD Press Briefing room 2E579 at 5 p.m. today at the Pentagon. A question and answer session with Ms. Sue C. Payton, Assistant Secretary, Acquisition, and General Arthur J. Lichte, Commander, Air Mobility Command, will follow the announcement." |
I dunno BEagle, the Malaysia Sun is well-known for its sources deep inside the US government, right?
:E |
Its the KC30
Just heard on Bloomsburg that the Northrop Grumman/EADS consortium has won the contract to deliver KC 30 to the USAF -as an avid Airbus fan I can only say - yippee
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Northrop/EADS Tanker win!!!
Northrop Wins Tanker Contract,
Beating Out Rival Boeing Source:- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1204...googlenews_wsj Northrop Grumman Corp. and European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. broke Boeing Co.'s lock on the market for aerial refueling tankers, winning a $40-billion contract to turn Airbus jets into flying gas stations for U.S. military aircraft, according to a person familiar with the situation. The unexpected win will likely bolster Los Angeles-based Northrop's standing as a major contender for large programs, while also expanding EADS's foothold in the U.S. defense market. The Air Force's decision to choose the Northrop-led team is a major setback for Boeing, particularly after Boeing lost out on a $23-billion chance to be the sole supplier of tankers in 2001 after the discovery that a top Boeing official and a former Air Force acquisition official had conducted illegal job negotiations. Under the contract, the Northrop-led team will build up to 179 tankers based on the Airbus A330 jetliner. The first planes are expected to enter service in 2013, replacing the Air Force's aging fleet of KC-135 tankers, many of which have been in service for more than 40 years. Eventually, the government expects to spend billions more dollars to replace more than 500 tankers. Given the huge financial stakes and the politics at stake, few in the defense industry expect the decision will stand without protest. Over the last couple of years, protests on high-dollar contracts have been filed with increasing regularity, leading to delays as government officials review every aspect of the deals. Lockheed Martin Corp. and United Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky helicopter twice protested the Air Force's November 2006 decision to award Boeing a more than $10-billion contract to build search-and-rescue helicopters. After the Government Accountability Office sustained the protests, the Air Force in October 2007 asked for new bids and a winner is expected this summer. |
KC 30 Announcement
I got there first at 2126 - see KC-X thread - but great news - no doubt there will be cries of FOUL from Boeing and Senate/House lobbying - but great news 179 wing sets for UK manufacture- I wonder what engines are being bid PW/GE/RR ????
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Doh.. I had a quick look.. before I posted too..
:) |
So can the RAF tag on an extra dozen and get a volume discount...?
:E |
Yes, just announced officially that the Airbus/Northrop-Grumman A330-based proposal has won the USAF KC-45A tanker contest.
A good day! |
KC-X NGC/EADS Win
AviationWeek.com
Reader's Tools http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...on_printer.png Print Article http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...icon_email.png Email Article http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im.../icon_save.png Save Article http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...mment_icon.gif Make a Comment Northrop Grumman/EADS Win USAF Tanker Award Feb 29, 2008 http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...rs/KCXEADS.jpg By Amy Butler Northrop Grumman and EADS have won the U.S. Air Force's KC-X tanker award, beating a Boeing-led team for the long-awaited, controversial and delayed decision. The award, for total buy of 179 tankers, is expected to result in a deal worth tens of billions of dollars and leading to a dozen or more new aircraft for several at a cost of about $3 billion per year. KC-X is the first iteration of a three-phased approach to replace the Air Force's fleet of 530 KC-135E/Rs and 59 KC-10s. The next tranche to replace the Air Force's larger KC-10 tankers, dubbed KC-Y, is not expected until at least 2020, effectively freezing Boeing out of the tanker market for the foreseeable future. The decision also seals the fate for Boeing's 767 production line. The far newer A330 design continues to outpace the 767 in commercial orders. Boeing has about four years of work left for its Everett, Wash., production line without more orders. The company was looking to the U.S. Air Force to be the only and final 767 customer in the coming years. The Northrop/EADS win also indicates the team's controversial tactics proved effective. The team threatened just over a year ago not to submit a proposal, effectively leaving the Air Force is a political quagmire without a true horserace after the former lease arrangement fell apart. Sole-sourcing the deal to Boeing was not an option after two former executives of the company -- including the former top Air Force official that helped to craft the $30 billion lease while working for the government -- were found guilty of conducting illegal job negotiations. They both wound up serving jail sentences, and the scandal prompted Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the current ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and former SASC Chairman John Warner (Va.) to push for a competition to reduce the price and improve the design. Photo: EADS |
Source ????
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A GREAT day for the USAF (and for EADS).
I can scarcely believe it. A triumph for the better tanker, rather than the more politically acceptable solution. The USAF get a tanker that can offload more fuel, more efficiently, from a towline further from base, and whose balanced field length requirements mean that it can operate at max weight from shorter runways than the 767 could. If our American chums can see beyond the Airbus being 'French' I think that the air power intelligentsia in the states will soon realise that they've bought themselves a da.m.ned good airplane. (And if it helps it will be badged as a Northrop Grumman bird and will be assembled in Mobile). The A310 is already flying very successfully in the tanker role, and the Airbus boom is looking very good on the A310 testbed, while the RAAF's A330 tankers will soon be in service. The poor old KC-767 has had a rather less successful start, with numerous teething troubles and severe delays. That decision must sound the death knell for the KC-767 tanker, however, and while its great news for the USAF, it can only be a devastating blow for the Boeing workforce, who have my sympathies, for what that's worth. But one hopes that the 767 does get orders as an RC-135 replacement, at least - as well as for the USAF's JSTARS and AWACS replacement requirements. |
Originally Posted by Jackonicko
(Post 3948017)
That decision must sound the death knell for the KC-767 tanker
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"(And if it helps it will be badged as a Northrop Grumman bird and will be assembled in Mobile)"
In a mobile building ???? Is that to confuse terrorists ? :hmm::hmm::hmm: |
not mobile - Mobile, Alabama......
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My source was the live broadcast on Bloomberg TV.
Amusingly, some US commentator has just said "Airbus is also involved in the Northrop-Grumman offer".....:hmm: And a couple of days ago, the Luftwaffe received its first upgraded A310MRTT from EFW at Dresden, flying it back to Köln-Bonn. The first CC-150T Polaris is now being modified to the new standard, with both nations' second aircraft following soon...... Now, about FSTA.......:rolleyes: |
wonder what engines are being bid PW/GE/RR ???? |
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Pious, it's like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it?:}
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The "day" is not over yet, it's almost certainly going to be tied up in appeals by Boeing/State of Washington/Democrats for about a year (both Boeing and PW being located in mainly Dem states, Northrop's bid being mostly Rep states) but that such a decision would be made at all...
I wonder in the back of my mind if Airbus expected to win at all and now are going "sheee-it. Now what?" :D :D :D |
Its a KC -140
Interview on Bloomsberg referred to a KC-140. Didn't catch the engine but as Pratt was bidding into Boeing it must be either GE or RR
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Boeing's bid was PW powered, Airbus' by GE.
http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/p....html?d=126373 |
Bloomberg have referred to the KC-40, KC-140 and KC-145.....
Bless 'em. It's the KC-45A, as far as I'm aware.. With GE engines. Now, what am I bid for my framed picture (from Boeing some years ago) of a KC-767 refuelling a pair of F-32s....all in RAF markings! Could be a collector's item, one day.... |
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ankertops.html
Seattle Times can't tell one twin Airbus from t'other: Boeing has lost a Pentagon contract for 179 air tankers to an Airbus-Northrop Grumman venture. The Air Force secretary, Michael Wynne, says the newly named KC-45A will replace aging KC-135 tankers and carry cargo, passengers and patients as well as fuel. The order is worth $40 billion and could lead to more orders as the Air Force replaces its aging fleet of 600 tankers. Boeing planned to use the 767 airframe for the tanker. Without the Air Force order Boeing may have to shut down the line at the Everett factory. The planes would have been turned into tankers in Wichita. Northrop-Airbus is using an Airbus A300 plane, to be modified in Alabama. Boeing had previously landed the Air Force tanker order in 2004 but lost it in an ethics scandal. |
Originally Posted by Lower Hanger
Didn't catch the engine but as Pratt was bidding into Boeing it must be either GE or RR
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Wonder how far down the list that leaves the RAF tankers!? :}
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Outstanding! But I'll be very interested to see if Boeing launch an appeal.
And I'm a fan of the CF6 engines too - great pieces of kit, especially if there isn't one in line with the UAARSI.... So Beags, anyone taken up that job in Spain yet? :} |
Source
AviationWeek.com
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Does this mean that if we ever get our backsides into gear and make a decision we will be at the back of a very long que?
Better get a new role of bodge tape out for the old girls on 101 and 216!:rolleyes: Tonks :hmm: |
I think the construction of the frames in Mobile should mean that Airtanker still get their frames of the line in the EU, but then again I'm not sure the FSTA frames even have a production line number assigned yet do they? And what you doing up at this time of night Tonks?
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I'm hoping the USAF actually showed some shrewdness:
McCain has had a stiffie for the USAF ever since the crooked leased tanker deal and has just pilliored every USAF civil and uniformed leader who has appeared before him. Therefore, if he wins the Presidency, the USAF still gets its desparately needed new tankers. However, should Clinton or Obama win, I'm still betting that the contract is re-let and/or split to keep Boeing in the game. However, I'm retired as of today! Not my problem anymore. Good luck to those still in! :ok: |
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