Quote:
Having been heavily involved with the Falklands i have attended the various functions last year. Wont be doing it again. Full of teary middle aged men reminising about how they deal with the aftermath of war while forgetting the fact that they did bugger all but sit around and whinge.The more the remf the more the tears.Alien world to me now as you are to the rest of the nation.


Lou,
As one who went Down South in 82, I feel your comments are a crock of s**t. I don't wish to know what your contribution was in 82, now would I regale you with what I was up to at the time. Its irrelevant. As for the gathering at Horseguards Parade in June.......yes there were tears, but they were for those that didn't come back...something you wouldn't understand. I guess some did more than sit around and whinge!
Hope all is well in your alien world.......the service surely misses the like of you.
SJ

As a non military type and never likely to be at my tender age, this is probably the only type of thread I feel qualified to participate in.

Anyway, I think the vast majority of the U.K. population view the 'Forces' with admiration, the problem is most haven't a clue as to what you do.

This program is excellent in educating the great unwashed, myself included.
More of the same please.

Stay safe.

I have a friend on a front line Jungly squadron in Afghanistan. I was disappointed when he reported back that Ross Kemp was a total embuggerance, however he is entitled to his view. I thought I'd watch the programme and caught it on Sky 2 last night. I must say that I agree with all the positive comments made so far about Ross in both his empathy and understanding of military matters but also how the programme has yet again thrust the issue into the public domain.

As this commitment is due to be for 10 years, is there a risk that news from Afghanistan will become mundane? I believe there is, given the fickle society in which we live. This programme has brought a fresh prospective to the campaign and I applaud it. Lets hope that the TV people holding the purse strings to such documentaries don't lose interest and stop funding them in future.

As for Ross being an embuggerance, well maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but the key point is still that he is doing a lot of good back here that might not be easy to appreciate/understand when sat in the sandpit.

PS - All I had was Kate Adie in GW1. She spent a night at our camp in the desert and after washing her smalls, hung them out on a line for the boys to see. Good girl:D

Never really saw her as telly totty myself, but I guess after a few months sandy-side, even she might start to look good :\

But this was before we had females on our Sdqn front line! And, we were in Saudi where the local men all held hands and you rarely saw a woman under the age of 60!

I guess that the whole experience was akin to 'Beer Goggles' and the well known theory of how women look better after each pint!:}

Mutley,
I dont see how you equate my civic morals or responsibilty to this thread.

I dont think that the forces should be fighting a war for labour. Equally I am ambivelant to their predicament contractually as a profession but not as people. As people I have great respect for the talents in our forces.

The bottom line is that your world and society is more and more removed from the civilian world and an unfortunate side effect of that is apathy and disinterest. Not a dig just a fact. If you take offence at that then you are locked in a world of self justification.

Strictly Jungley.
It is not possible to grieve for someone you dont or didnt know, only empathsie. I saw many men in tears on that parade. Why im not sure. They didnt know the dead, nor did they have traumaic experiences,they were just part of a campaign.
It was all part of middle aged mauldling. Show respect and empathy but not all blubbing away a la Pincess Di hysteria.

It was a good day out but lets keep it in perspective.

Lou

I am not qualified in the world of counselling but I would suggest you might need some, and definitely more than those able to weep might for you seem to be in denial.

Wasnt having a direct dig at you about morals but merely stating that there is still a feeling (seems common in the Armed Forces) that people can make a difference.

Its odd but I usually get a train home and tonight decided for the first time to wear my uniform, why? Who knows? I guess I am becoming tired of pretending to be a civvy, something it is now obvious I am not!

Mutley,
To have a different perspective or opinion does not require counselling.

I did not create the situation only pointing it out.

I dont do weepy nor do I like the divide.

You would not have to court the country's respect if the govt showed you some. It would come as national reaction. just like the states.

I used to travel in uniform, more should. It would be the start of reversing the alienisation i mentioned before.

I am able to seperate my emotion , false or otherwise from my personnal gestures to indivduals like holding an eludeid bzz flight until the herc arrived. 2 hrs 55 discretion, programme fecked, tea with hat no buscuits for me. That was my personnal gesture to the poor buggers going on leave because I know what a ****hole is is real time.

I still dont suscribe to organised weeping or gratitude. The reality is far removed and in the majority and has to evolve back.

I was in theatre when Ross kemp was there last year , didn't remember seeing any Junglies though?

I only have his word for it matey. (Has on occasions been known to be a bit of a b$$s%%%r) !

Incidentally, when was the documentary filmed? The Mk4's were in country after summer if I recall correctly.

Lou,
Quite frankly I find you and your misguided comments obnoxious! How dare you assume that some were grieving and remembering people that they didn't know. Grieving is very personal. Princess Di Hysteria? You insult people who were there. How the **** do you claim to know what they did or didn't experience?
You are a buffoon! Who as somebody has already stated needs counselling, at the very least, but you would possibly think that is below you.
Do us all a favour..............keep your moronic comments to yourself.


"It was a good day out but lets keep it in perspective. "

You worthless piece of ......................

SJ

Hmm. What to say...

I'm very proud to be able to wear the uniform of an RAF officer every day I go to work. Although I've been denied the opportunity to serve OOA, despite repeated requests, I believe that every day I do something positive to defend my country. And that gives me a buzz.

I'm proud to be able to serve, even though millions of people don't care about me or why I do what I do. I'm proud that even though my career matters c0ck-all to my desk officer, I still feel that I'm making a difference.

I'm gutted that I've lost friends in the sandpits. I'm heartily disgusted at the way the govt treats HM Armed Forces. And I'm irritated that little is done to educate the public about what we do, day in, day out, without asking for any reward other than knowing that we're doing a good thing. Whatever people think of Ross Kemp, he should be thanked for enduring what our chaps are enduring, because it's showing people back home the hellishness of life in Afghanistan for a British soldier.

Everyone in the Armed Forces - and outside - has opinions about what we do. I'm happy to be able to voice an informed opinion; others might want to reconsider saying anything before they know the facts; some might even consider staying quiet altogether. But no matter what their opinion is, they are all lucky to live in a country where their freedom of speech is defended heartily by the Armed Forces.

And, you know what? That's what I'm proudest of. That every day I go to work to defend our rights; I might not agree with some of the posters here, but I'm proud to be able to serve them selflessly and without question, because that's what I've wanted to do since I was a boy. I wonder whether they have such satisfaction in life.

And what pi$$es me off the most? That the only way I can earn a decent living and have a shot at advancing in life is by leaving the RAF. But whatever happens to me post-PVR, I'll take with me the mindset, respect and discipline that I've learned as a Serving officer of the finest Air Force in the world; and, by God, I'll be a good citizen and ever-thankful for the selflessly hard work, dedication and sacrifice of our Armed Forces.

As a civilian I watched the programme with avid interest, along with a fellow ppruner (who's in the forces) who was able to answer my 'stupid' questions on various points raised that I didn't understand.

Like many on Civvy Street, I too have friends serving out there, both in and out of the forces, and it was certainly an eye opener to me to see (as it were) with my own eyes their previous stories brought to life through a visual medium.

Like Ross Kemp, I was also shocked at the change in the 18yr old boy after a matter of weeks - brings to mind the adage of 'go out a boy, return a man'.

I've seen a few of Ross Kemp's 'gang' programmes and he continues to go up in my estimation.

Am presently looking forwards to next Monday's episode.

:ok:

Bigendbob

Whatever that link is, it just asks for me to register?

On a lighter note. When is Phil going to join Grant in "The Mitchell Brothers versus the Taliban" :}

LJ

Is there really much point in getting upset by Nik Nak, et al?

Recognition of the work done by HM Forces wasn't appreciated during my time in the Mob, (Simtech, 1961 - 1983), why do we expect today to be any different?

My last experience was just before leaving Lossie (lived in MQ in Elgin) when a civvie neighbour informed me that the only reason I wore a uniform was ..."because you couldn't hold down a real job in civvie street".

Rather than snot him there and then, I took him to the Jag Sim Centre one evening and showed him what we were about, then strapped him in and sent him aloft, for a VERY short time.
Next step was to get a real pilot in the box for a demo...exit one very chastened civvie with a renewed appreciation of what went into permitting him to sleep soundly at night.

Really, the people who need to know how to appreciate the Forces already do so, why allow the others to upset your equilibrium? You all know how needed you all are, we ex-service all know, who else matters?

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.

Multyfour..sorry should have hadded a bit..
Register, then it links to a rapidshare download of 1st program.
But see someone has a link to Youtube so probably easier to view, although the docs4you will be better quality.

Jungly,
I havent insulted people who were there. I am critical of the teary crap middle aged men indulge in when they have no reason too apart from being nostalgic middle aged men . Unfortunately they are being nostalgic about other peoples achievements. When I see a remf clerk in the RE crying over hs memories of Goose green when he wasnt even there I cringe at the bandwagon bullsh1t Im witnessing. The less warry and soldierlike the person was in 1982 the more nostalgic they are.Crap hats is the vernacular I believe.
I served in NI 3 times , FI and went on to work as a contractor in Africa for three years. I should be bursting into tears everytime Im ordered..bollocks
I know what they went thru because I was right next to them throughout the campaign. I know they were caught up in institutionalised middleaged grief because I was again right next to them on the parade. The second one I was on , the first being in 1982. So you see I do know what Im talking about.
Quite frankly I find your institutionalised attitude quite obnoxious.
Try thinking for yourself intead of a mass organism.

Like me you are probably mil or ex mil but unlike me you are probably not a sucessful airline pilot after a career of hands on guns. So who is the one who needs the counseling. Ive moved on You clearly havent.
PS just read your profile RN. A bit less crying and a bit more marching practice and well be getting somewhere.

Crikey, first Like Minded and now this simpleton, does this forum have an ignore funtion? These idiots seem to come in waves.

I don't feel that I am at a sufficient career level to read the posts of a 'sucessful airline pilot'. I probably wouldnt understand such a 'great man'.

All I can see are the ramblings of a pompous troll, so i must be missing something here.

Probably comes under the "Thread Tools" caption.

Go to user CP towards the top left, on the next page look towards the bottom of the left hand option list for "Buddy / Ignore Lists"...

From the FAQ: What are the buddy and ignore lists?

Lou,
Forgive me, I didn't realise that I was in the presence of such greatness!
A successful airline pilot indeed.............. you mean a glorified bus driver!
I couldn't give a monkeys what you did then or subsequently. Your comments are, and remain, offensive.

"It was a good day out but lets keep it in perspective. "

How galling, one would hope you wouldn't extend that particular view to all Rememberance Parades.

"Quite frankly I find your institutionalised attitude quite obnoxious.
Try thinking for yourself intead of a mass organism."

When the Airline tires of you, you should become a stand-up comedian......I would give you 2 minutes at the most.

Hopefully we will never meet, I couldnt bear the thought of my life, amongst many others, being in your hands! I mean such a cynical, narrow-minded pi55-pot juggler like yourself in charge of any kind of airframe is more frightening than, well you get the gist.

Enjoy flying with Buddy Holly Airlines.

I seriously pity you.
End of Transmission.
SJ

Lou has a point. The real warriors may reminisce, but we do it laughing at remembered mistakes while only the hangers-on reminisce as if they regret never having been in the action in those days. Save the tears, our comrades are in a better place.

Remember most of you work for me miles behind my contrails. You polish my throttle, buff my knobs, hang pods and bombs on my plane and give me a smart boy scout salute as I prepare to blast off into the blue yonder. I am the point man. So what do you know about war?

Who here has returned with green foliage snagged on the wheel well? Who here has plummetted behind a bandit trailing blue afterburner, twisting and rolling like a viper? Who here has nursed a riddled, flapping comrade back to base, quietly crooning Avril Lagne over the intercom to calm your 22-year-old blonde wingman?

War, nothing like it, but it's not the main part of soldiering.

LM............F**k Off.
You pre pubescent rubbish isn't worthy of a Xbox forum yet alone here. I had hoped that you had died of embarrasement after your comments regarding Canadian KIA's.

Hopefully the admin can clear you of your debt to this forum.

What are you doing at Sandhurst, milking the ponies? Are you better than the udders here?

Particularly at this point in time, most servicemen will have had a friend or colleague and possibly several acquaintances who have been killed on ops and many will have been involved in the repatriation process. Any emotion felt by those left behind and ridiculed by the trolls of this thread, is most likely genuine and it is downright offensive and ignorant to suggest that it is some sort of 'Diana effect'.

How dare you tell me how I should react when I hear of another fatal aircraft crash involving someone I know. How dare you tell me what emotions I should feel when I see another Union Jack draped coffin being carried across the tarmac.

If you do not get a lump in your throat when you hear the last post, or watch yet another repatriation ceremony then in my opinion, you lack the humanity and comprehension of sacrifice that all people should possess and should be second nature for all service personnel.



LM, get back to Microsoft Flight Sim, there's a good lad. If you are legally an adult, you are an obnoxious idiot. You are just the type of person that SH crewmen like to make mugs of tea for.
Try going into the engineers' crewroom and saying that - see how you get on. That's if mummy let's you out of the house alone, and it doesn't conflict with the terms of your ASBO.



Lou, If you have ever actually served I shall be amazed. If you are that dispassionate you are not fit to command anyone. 'Another body bag - never mind, eh? All part of his contractual obligations. Next'. If you had served in any meaningful way I think you'd know better. Still, don't let that stop you spinning dits to your 'highly successful' airline colleagues.

Brilliant! Some proper fruitcakery going on in here today :D

Generally speaking I'd be hard pushed to give less of a toss, really, about what Joe Public thinks about me and what I do. I would like to think they would recognise the sacrifice of those that come back in boxes or horribly injured and I would like to think that perhaps society would look after these people and their families and not treat them like crap.

That said, as I long as I keep coming back in one piece I expect nothing from Joe P and, to paraphrase Frank N Furter, I recieve it in abundance. Not bothered. I get paid a healthy wage, get to fly about and generally do cool sh*t. I joined the military 18 years ago fully aware of how it all worked. People may not particularly care that we in the Military don't get looked after terribly well just in the same way that I don't particularly care that Policemen want more pay or that X hundred people have been made redundant by XYZ Airline. Sign of the times I guess.

What does grip my sh*t however is being lied to and mistreated/misused by the Government that sends us off on our jolly little forays. Give us the kit to do the job or don't ask to do the job. Simple enough really.

LM - fishing exped. Nice - catch anything? Netfull by the look of it

Lou - Not sure what you're on, funny though. Can sympathise with you to a certain extent about the "Liverpool effect" (grieving and weeping for people they've never met or seen - to wit, the day of Liverpudlian mourning over Ken Bigley) but I think you're being a little harsh judging people whom you don't actually know. As for your having defeated the Argie Army single handedly and then having become Britain's number one airline pilot, racing car driver and astronaut - puuuurrrlease..... :hmm: Let it go man....

Stop start,
I only mentioned the war and the airline. Who told you about my racing career or occaisional forays to orbit.

Your liverpool analogy and reference to the govt has hit the nail on the head.
Still some people are so "grieved up" they cant reason
Now i will move on thanks for the counseling guys.
Its been fun.
To the good guys be safe.
Jungly..."end of transmission" wtf is that. Have you got baggy green skin and black shiney feet as well? Muppet:E
The civilian world will try to muddle thru until you stop crying and get out to put us right.

I'd be interested to hear from one of the Mods re Like (or is that Simple) Minded and Lou Backwater - could you look up the IP address and see if it is one and the same person?

If not, then two villages are currently missing their idiot. Internet cafes should be banned in small towns.

Lou - you must have had an interesting and awe inspiring military career if your message to a member of the RN is:

. Did you ever manage to get off the parade ground?

As for a successful career as an airline pilot, all I can do is re-iterate Strictly Jungly's comment
I'm ex-forces (RN as it happens), never thought I was special when I was in, and I don't think that members of the AF today think that they are special. However they do deserve our respect.

If you served (which I seriously doubt), you must be blind not to see that our forces today are seriously overstretched in comparison to days of old, fighting a type of war in several theatres that you should have a little bit of appreciation for, as you claim to have served in NI 3 times (as a drill instructor perhaps?), although NI is probably nothing compared to fighting terrorists who are happy to commit suicide in their quest.

I defy any real member or ex member of the Forces who does not feel some emotion when they witness parades etc. It's not about tears, but there is some emotion... unless you are such a hardened steely killing machine that it washes over you.

It has nothing to do with "Princess Diana hysteria" (I personally think that in that instance it is a hysteria), it's about an appreciation of a shared experience, whether that be having served and taken part in a conflict, or merely (!) having been proud to have served in the Armed Forces.

Anyhoo, it's probably a waste of time typing this as it's 1850, must be bedtime for you... we'll let you get back to your computer games as from your posts you indicate that you have progressed from Medal of Honour (retired with honours) and now play MS Flight Sim.

Happy landings old chap, keep an eye on those Ts and Ps as your auto pilot does the work ;)

sorry to butt in on all the ego trips but i thought that "Ross Kemp in Afghan" was pretty good.
Best comment i heard was "lane 12 5 no actually 18 pass, SAS my Arse".

right i have read enough.

what can i say??? plenty...but will refrain...ish!:}

oooh get you lou...a successful airline pilot eh?! what do you want? a pat on the back? who says you're successful..you? well, if that is the case i would say i personally would be sh*****g myself if i was on your plane as you seem to think that you are right in your "opinions" and my god you are sooo wrong, so if you think you are a successful pilot then get out quick is all i would say to your passengers! you are clearly wrong on your interpretations of what you see, so it's fair to say successful is not a word that i would apply to you. i do have plenty :mad: :mad:.

i do not want to stoop to your level. what on earth has your civvie street job got to do with your right to be so dis respectful to those who serve and those who grieve? i am a nurse in a neuro itu, but that makes me no better than the person who empties my bins, i do not allow that to be the reason why i am right in my opinions. that does not dis regard others opinions. i do not look at others who serve in the same environment that i do and decide that i have experienced the same as them and their reactions are wrong.
an interesting concept you may wish to consider. everyone is an individual. everyone feels differently, reacts differently and thank god for that. we may all experience the same thing but we will all take something different from that experience, so while i am trying to widen that narrow mind of yours i have another suggestion for you. get yourself to the opticians as your short sightedness is certainly very disabling it's fair to say!:E

another thing, not that you'd give a sh**, on wenesday it will be the anniversary of my brothers death. he was killed when the herc was brought down in iraq . i had to find out from the news, stop my daughters birthday celebrations, call my mum and dad and tell them and then wait for the knock on the door after watching the new for 10 hours while trying to glean something that would tell me it wasn't him. i had to ring the station to try and get info i had to stand in the room that he would have stood in as his last moments in this country as i waited for the plane that would hold his body came into land. i have had to carry myself through this terrible time in my life with as much dignity as i can muster though all i want to do is cry. i have looked at the faces of those who served that day at the repatriation ceremony, the people who lined the streets as we left, the faces at the funeral, the memorial services. they have felt it to, they have a right to their feelings, are they wrong in their feelings? not that you are clearly able to feel that is very apparent. but for god's sake man have some respect. all because you might react or feel differently does not mean that we are wrong to act and feel the way that we do. am i wrong in how i grieve? go on answer that? then you can come to my house spend a day in my shoes and see what i go through and what i am dreading. i want to be able to think of that day as my daughters birthday not the day that i lost my brother. i guess i am not being dignified now, and no doubt you'll interpret this as me jumping up and down going ooh look at me, but i am not, i am simply trying to get you to reconsider the effect of your acidic comments.

I hope nik nak remembers his commnets if he ever finds his way of life, freedom or rights threatened cos to many people decided to leave the forces cos of coments like that from muppets.

Why isit that when people post something interesting, others decide to turn threads into utter tripe?

Chappie
thoughts with you and the rest for Wednesday.

Lou
as it appears you have crawled back in to your hole, do us all a favour eh, stay there!

Brilliant 2nd episode.

2 rpg's turned into 5, then by the time he met up with the rest of the COY, it was 7! Love to go fishing with him. Otherwise, a good piece of journalism.

sadly i have got Virgin and cannot get Sky, however i have the Skyman coming tomorrow to rectify the situation. i am just waiting for one of those bona blokes to upload it to youtube, and next week i am in business.

Respect
 

I was going to post something sooner, but feared this was the wrong thread (what with the ridiculous comments seen earlier). I also didn't want to start my own thread this time for fear of being called a sycophant!

I just want to go on record right here and now by saying that our troops are frickin' awesome. Say what you like about the government that sent them there in the first place, but I know who I'd want looking out for me when the sh1t hit the fan! What an amazing bunch of guys. Ross Kemp didn't do too badly either. For a civvie!

While we're on the subject, I must also tip my hat to the helo and multi guys involved in such matters. Despite what you may glean from the banter on this site, I can assure you that us fast jet jockeys (this one at least) are only too aware of the dangers you face on a daily basis and I have to say that I'm impressed with the way you handle yourselves.

So, in summary, a big pat on the back to all involved. Not least to Mr Kemp for bringing the conflict into the public domain with some of the best 'action' footage available outside of youtube!
Let's hope this thread doesn't start back down the slippery slope again!
BV:ok:

For all those of you posting on 'Ross Kemp in Afghanistan', how very dare you for creeping this thread back to its title. Its much more interesting reading the ego trip ping pong going on above! :rolleyes::}:rolleyes: