They're PPs not PPKs, whatever the Bond wannabes say... As OC Arm at Honington I wa asked by a Major going to the sand whether he could have a PP rather than a Browning; my armourer chief and I advised him to stick to the Browning, as you'd do more damage with it when you swing it at the enemy's head...

Surrender
 

The PP's round (the same as the PPK's) transmits more energy into the target at typical pistol engagement ranges (F*cking close) and is potentially more lethal, albeit it carries fewer of them.

The Glock is not impressive and has not been approved for military use by the Ordnance Board.

The whole debate is over which pistol is best for aircrew is largely pointless; you're only given one in order that you have something to hand over as a tangible sign of surrender.

Ahhh...the Browning 9 milly. The only weapon that I could achieve marksman status with on range days.

Although the point about it being the PP has been made, the story behind its introduction is possibly, typical of procurement.

The RAF only got them when a member of the DPG had a stoppage with one during an attempt to kidnap Princess Anne in London, back in the 70s. They decided to get rid of them, and only realised afterwards that they had made a blunder with servicing (I think). A small pin should protrude at the rear of the slide above the hammer indicating a cocking action, but it was reported that this occasionaly broke, causing possible feeding problems. I think I'm right in saying that the officer's PP wasn't modified.

Not a massively effective wpn across the baord, but for close and immediate protection, more than adequate. The half cock style capability especially, and light action, being ideal if you've been injured in the descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_P...Kidnap_attempt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4139187.stm

http://www.ianball.me.uk/

That last link is.... interesting.:uhoh:

I used to receive mail from someone in Rampton (long story). The writing started off ok, it was neat, calm and horizontal. As the letter wore on though, it would start going all over the place. The pencil would be dug deeper and deeper into the paper and before your eyes, through the medium of the writing, you could visualise the guy losing the plot.. as he put his thoughts onto paper.

Scary. And sad.

That last link made for a cracking late afternoon read! Having perused all the now very obvious facts of the case, I can safely say -

http://tippinthescales.files.wordpre.../fruitcake.jpg

in a caring sort of way, obviously...

Al R - are you sure it wasn't from someone at Brampton?

The writing style you describe sounds familiar.....

I rather thought it looked like one of my F6000 written responses.

"Such mental pain over such a long period of time has resulted in the complete destruction of my personality. This means that, when I sue the authorites, I will get record damages - at least £2million."

Does the Walther have a slide? IIRC you just had to squeeze the trigger.

Personnally I prefered the Sterling - now with 30 rounds and full automatic you could scare a few crows.

Biggest draw back of the 9mm weapons was the Indian bullets. Somene must have made a fortune short charging the cartridges. Sometimes they didn't leave the barrel even.

It has a slide and a double action trigger.

Explaining to people the importance of keeping ammunition dry used to be a bugbear, Indian or otherwise.

Still. In the grand scheme of things..

Al R - are you sure it wasn't from someone at Brampton?

The writing style you describe sounds familiar.....


F*ck off Beags, I've long retired!

(We didn't all live in the Brampton Old Peoples' Home - Some of us were in the now demolished Salvation Army Hostel -when we weren't detached)

Advice given for when meeting the "Viet Mick " of old.

"Chuck your 9mm well to the left , and whilst they're scratching about there -

smartly exit stage right."

Mike,

Ref Lyneham FS.

I know who you're talking about. He became a Bootie Reservist, last seen at the Albert Hall a few years ago. Career finished under a cloud if its who I think it is. Smallish, lithe, black hair, 'tache?

Smallish, lithe, black hair, 'tache

Well, I must say that narrows it down a bit.:8

Initials CC? Into his martial arts..?

The rest fits. He was a JNCO on my basics course at Catterick. He wasn't much fun there I can tell you. :hmm:

Browning jam
 

Recollect this happening once or twice.

Used to consider position if Basil and chums found wandering by bad infantry.
Couple of 9mm pistols vs grenades, AK47s etc., esp if one had recently slotted one of their mates or civilians :uhoh:

Edited to say the video is probably of a misfire rather than a jam :O

Count yourself lucky you weren't this guy.

Yee ha, ride 'em cowboy.

Al R
 

which Basics were you on? CC was an instructor on mine too (BG5A/82)

Aah, Jim Beaton, my late Father knew him quite well from their days together in uniform on the beat, before Jim ended up in RP, and later on when my Father ended up in RP as well.

I do remember my Dad's conversations afterwards about "unreliable autos" and after the Princess Anne incident RP quickly changed to revolvers. This is the first technical explanation I've heard though, and your explanation seems to fit in with the reality, and a typical knee jerk reactions by the brass. I do have vague recollections of my Dad saying some of the RP officers were in favour of the PP's being replaced by Colt Commander's as they were compact enough, and they wanted the one shot stopping of the .45 as well as the proven reliabilty, and some didn't like the stronger 1st pull needed with the double action PP.
I suspect that idea got chucked out on cost and politics grounds.....

I am surprised the Met had enough PP's for RAF use (unless the RAF ordered more later?) as I would have thought only the relatively few Royalty and Ministerial CP officers had PP's at the time...maybe Special Branch as well...?

The DPG being uniformed still had issue revolvers at the time IIRC.

rockape2k7,

The one after you, no sprog bashing please. The one too, which used to have to carry railway sleepers everywhere :{. Didn't most of you go to 51/58?

Nice to see you. Lots of aircrew, but despite that, a sensible debate isn't unknown here.