UAVs and King Airs for Army & RAF.
 

DefenseNews: British MoD Gives Elbit/Thales Effort $110M Deal for Hermes

Israel’s Elbit Systems has confirmed that the British Ministry of Defence has awarded a $110 million deal to an unmanned air vehicle joint venture company they operate in Britain with Thales UK to supply Hermes 450 platforms. The deal will plug a gap in British army intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The purchase of the Hermes 450 under Britain’s urgent operational requirements procurement process has been known about for several weeks, but this is the first time the purchase has been officially confirmed. In a statement released June 7, the company said the UAV Tactical Systems (U-Tacs) joint venture will immediately commence work on a program providing the Hermes 450, training of British personnel in the use and maintenance of the system and the provision of contractor logistic support.

Leicester-based U-Tacs, which is 51 percent owned by Elbit, is already contracted to supply the Hermes 450 as part of the British army’s 700 million-pound Watchkeeper tactical ISTAR UAV program. Deliveries of Watchkeeper vehicles are not due to start until at least the end of 2010, leaving a gap in British ISTAR capabilities in such hot spots as Afghanistan and Iraq.

The few Phoenix UAVs still available to the British army do not work in hot and high conditions causing capability shortfalls that are only now being addressed.

The original Watchkeeper program required a stopgap solution to be available by the end of 2006 until the full system could be deployed. That was ditched by the MoD for budgetary reasons.

Aside from the Hermes, the British army is also soon to begin operations of a handful of Hawker Beechcraft King Air 350ER equipped for ISTAR operations. The aircraft will provide significantly better performance than the Britten-Norman Islander, the other fixed-wing aircraft in the Army Air Corps fleet.

Three General Atomics Predator B UAVs have also been purchased for Royal Air Force use under the urgent operational requirements process paid for by the Treasury rather than the MoD.

Interesting.

Currently, they are not toted to be AAC assets...;)

LJ

More info on the King Air buy here:

http://defensenews.com/story.php?F=2768983&C=airwar

Rumour has it,

AAC and RAF where both bidding to run the King Airs. AAC Sqn (borrowing several RAF pilots) and the RAF's bid with a slighty larger Sqn. AAC won the bid (with the smaller number of pilots) but then had to ask the RAF for more pilots who promply said no chance.

So the AAC won the right to have the Squadron but they wont have enough pilots as they sold themselves short!!!

Or so the rumour has it !!!!!!:\:\

Isn't that a similar story to how Teeny Weenie Airways got their mitts on the Apache, except comparing amount of techies needed to service them rather than pilots to fly them?

Possibly

sounds like a bit of a theme or is desperation to keep them going. Apart from Apache which is doing a great job, they need something to keep the Corps going.

How about a joint asset ....

RAF train them

AAC pay for them

and the Fleet Air Arm fly them.

That way the FAA maintains another fixed wing capability for when WEBF gets enough support to get the SHAR reintroduced into service :p

Same old nonsense as ever, when the senior leadership of the AAC is a single one star to go up against the other service Chiefs, is anyone surprised when they only get the consolation prizes? How many one stars and above does the Air Force currently have on the books?

Two's in - True, but have a look at CGS's chest next time he's scaring Swiss Des by appearing on the telly, and note with whom he spent part of his service...

One rumour (note 'rumour', no idea if it's true) has it that CGS was far from uninvolved in the process of ensuring that the King Airs went to the AAC. Although whether or not he's going to be doing some refresher training so that the things have enough pilots isn't clear...:\

Read my lips...they are not going to be AAC assets. They are expecting to go to an RAF Sqn with an RAF Boss, flown by RAF pilots and based at an RAF Station...'nuff said, sorry teenie-weenies! How do I know this - they have started pulling individuals from the light-blue ME Cadre in the past few months - they have been told which Sqn they are going to, where and when. I don't believe that we are scrapping Defenders to be replaced by the King Air 350ER aircraft, so I guess that capability will remain with the AAC.

On another aside. Does anyone know whether they are the same as the US Forces' "Guardrail" aircraft?

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/rc-12d.jpg

LJ

The RC-12 (Guardrail) is a Beechcraft B200.

Here are the details for Raytheons Special Mission Beechcraft 350ER:

http://www.raytheonaircraft.com/spec.../king_air_350/

Thanks for that. It looks kind of similar - just a few more aerials (almost like spot the difference :ok:).

LJ

So I guess aerodynamics are an optional extra then.......

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/rc-12d.jpg

That'd be a GREAT aircraft for skydiving. Look at all that **** you can hang on to during a mass exit :ok:

I wonder why the starboard engine is so much further forward than the l/h one :confused:

I bet you will find that the funny cigar thinghy on the left wing is also further back than the cigar thinghy on the right wing.

Reckon it's gonna be a hybrid set up as opposed to sole Pongo or Crabair organistion. A chopped CFS(H) QHI NCO is doing the conversion to fly this line no and PMA can't spare anyone to command/man it anyway.

The Iraqi air force has also order a number of the King air 350ER's:

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/...h_king_air350/

This was a 350ER at an MOD exhibition at Oxford Airport in 2005:

http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/overv...allery_73.html

Here's a solution WITH A LARGE TONGUE IN CHEEK...

Get all the RAF Flying Club ME/PPL holders and offer them a type conversion at Bristol Flight Centre:

The BFC King Air TRTO offers a 7 day Ground school and Aircraft based training course.

Ground studies consist of a 3 days technical course conducted at Bristol International Airport Followed by a 4 day Flight Training and Testing Phase.

Full Course (ground school and flight training) £12,750 (includes VAT)

Minimum pre-entry requirements


Current CAA/JAA pilot licence and medical certificate

Current MEPL (if first type rating) SPA Instrument Rating (if flown IFR)

Minimum 70 hrs logged as PIC



As an Aircraft Based (not Simulator) course we offer (subject to availability) a current model King Air B200 (G-ORJA) fitted with EFIS-FMS-MFD which adds an extra dimension to the course content.

Flight Training includes a revision of Instrument Approach Procedures including Instrument Rating Renewal-Revalidation if required.

Bristol Flying Centre has been in the Professional flight training and AOC market for many years and look forward to working with both Individuals and fellow Operators looking for outsourced training or type-rated recruits.

Back to the cloud near cuckoo-land for me...

LJ

Strange how the AAC have guys already training then...



Shaun

Unless you are commenting on information in the public domain. I think conjecture on this subject should be kept to a minimum. The MOD have refused to comment, and probably for a very good reason.

Sorry for being a killjoy.

MLT

What is the OPSEC issue as regards the cap badge(s) of the guys who operate these?

Equipment fit, mission capability, fair enough, but since it can only be RAF or Army there's not much to be gained by knowing which one :=

Airborne artist.
Why can't the RN get involved?
Apart from the fact that we aren't stupid, of course.

'Cos soon you won't have any carriers and it won't fit on a helideck?

MLT you are right so deleted all my comments for Leon Jabachjabicz

Looks like 45 SQN will have it's work cut out then!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1053607/L

..is that registration for real!

Got to wonder if the close proximity of the two orders is a coincidence, or a common specification and production line...

Iraqi Air Force orders King Air sensors
June 11, 2007

General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GA-ASI) was awarded a contract to provide an initial lot of five integrated ISR sensor suites for Beechcraft King Air 350ER twin turboprop aircraft ordered by the new Iraqi Air Force.

The contract, which could be worth as much as $53 million, will see five aircraft equipped with GA-ASI Lynx IIE SAR/GMTI radar, an L-3 Communications/Wescam MX-15i electro-optical/infrared camera system, and CLAW sensor control and analysis software provided by Exclusive Charter Services of San Diego, Calif.

Linden Blue, president of GA-ASI’s reconnaissance systems unit, said the equipment integrates the sensors with an operator console station able to collect, format and display information. Imagery and other intelligence products can then be sent via airborne data link to ground stations.

Working through the U.S. Air Force’s Aeronautical Systems center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, Iraq’s nascent defense ministry ordered six new King Air 350ERs — five for ISR and one for light transport — in March. Completion of the aircraft is slated for April 2008.

It will be interesting who actually gets these. In the early eighties there was serious discussions for the AAC to be given some Canberras with Battlefield Radar but the politics wouldn't allow it.

What are the politics of it?

The Army should operate on the land, the Royal Navy at sea and the Royal Air Force control the air element.

Exactly the attitude why it didn't get further!!

And what is wrong with that attitude?

You've not done a Det at Sea have you?


Shaun

Unfortunately yes I have, on more than one occassion.

Actually to be fair the RN were fantastic hosts and seem to really know what they are doing with their boats.:ok:

It just seems strange that some in the Army and RN have been bleating about disbanding the RAF for years after cherry picking the bits they want yet I've never heard of anyone in the RAF wanting a fleet of ships of our own or tanks to rumble around in.

You don't have to go far back to find that the RAF had light tanks (Scimitar) in the RAFR, and a bit further back the RAF operated some decent sized boats in the SAR role.

Indeed the RAF did, but it no longer does.

The light armoured RAF Regiment squadrons were binned during Options For Change I believe as they duplicated a task already carried out by the British Army and the RAF motor launches at RAF Mount Batten were superseeded by SAR helicopters in their rescue role and RN assets for their target towing role.

Mmmm. Where does that leave the RAF Regt in general. not just the CVR(T)'s (tanks as you call them. :rolleyes:)

The RAF Regt hasn't operated CVR(T)'s for quite a few years now. When I said 'tanks' I meant it in the MBT sense(:rolleyes: back atcha).

As an ex-Rifleman myself I too am baffled by the continuing exsistance of the RAF Regt.

Anyone else remember that lovely Black and White film, "The Sea Shall Not Have Them"?

Ronald Shiner, I think, about ASR during the war in the Channel.