Aircrew rations
 

Could someone shed any light on the rumoured forthcoming reduction in Flying rations from 1 Jul. It appears that as part of the cost savings to the public purse in line with the changes to entitlement for food and accommodation, that aircrew rations will not continue to be demanded to the same levels and individuals will be responsible for provisioning themselves. The aircrew rations normally reclaimed against all monthly Fg stats will only be able to be reclaimed against night hours. Fg rations (box meals) will only be issued for periods where crews are to be flying for 1-4 hrs that take place over a meal time. Pot noodles and pies will not be available, only high energy rations like chocolates and biscuits etc

I am told that crews who are airborne for longer periods (2 Gp/Trails etc) will continue to be catered for in the normal way and have asked for a copy of the new regs but none have been forthcoming, any one got any thoughts? It will also include SAR and Q crews although the funding will be limited to plated meals from messes as opposed to self catering.

That should make up the minds of any waverers at ISK, Lyn etc!:}
Sorry. Hiding

In every other Air Force in the world people have to provide food for themselves, I am surprised it has taken this long to see cut backs in this perk.
Guys guarding the gate for 12 hours and guys that work on the aircraft for a full 12 hour shift recieve nothing in the way of rations so why should you get free food provided.
Sure provide bottled water due to being in a forced air environment but a chicken tikka, rice, crisps, mars bar, apple and donuts is rather extracting the urine is it not? and dont even get me started on aircrew recieving rations for a sortie flown in the SIM!!
I can however see the point of rationing the trails etc
This is not a flaming post but merely an observation of something I personally have thought should have been sorted a long time ago.

I dunno, we used to get duty supper on nights which, if you lived out, was free and if you lived in you didn't pay any extra. If living out, we also got free breakfast, lunch and dinner when on exercise or station augmentation force duty. Does that not happen anymore?

MSJ

The NLS tea bar will go into economic meltdown :)

Midsomerjambo

Unfortunately not. If you live out you get nothing when on Guard Commander, etc.

MightyHunter AGE

I appreciate yours is not a flaming post but, on a small point, I have never seen the lineys complain when taking excess rations off a jet. Especially OOA. :E

Your point about sims is well made though. Never could quite see the need for that.



Will these proposed changes apply on ops/ dets etc????

Unlike shift work and gate guarding - its just a bit difficult to pop down the NAAFI to grab a butty while you are at 30K ft on a 10 hour sortie!! Therefore aircrew will need feeding! As for only getting food when flying over meal times - these are also difficult to manage what with different time zones and unsocial working hours etc to consider. Sounds like a good few flight safety reports coming up caused by low blood sugar!

Also sounds a cost saving exercise!!

I believe it is possible for aircrew to visit the NAAFI prior to take off and...buy...sandwiches.

There you are, I said it. I'll go and punish myself immediately...:rolleyes:

So the NAAFI (or SPAR Shop as it is now) will be open at 0400 for an early crew in? Fat Chance. Perhaps shops are always open when the blunt end are pretending to work but.....

Good point! It would make more sense to introduce mandatory food charges for aircrew for each day they fly, either pro-rata or over half a month of flying equates to living-in food charges.

Flight safety issue = solved. :E

I take it you've checked? Or just toeing the party line? Working with the USAF I remember being fed outside normal working hours free and having access to a heavily subsidised mess at other times. Hells bells, cheese paring cheapness like this helps suck the last of the morale out of the people that supposedly matter most (remember 'people are our most important asset?')

Just because us (ex in my case) ground-ponders are treated like sh*t doesn’t create a precedence or give you cart-blanch - everyone should be looked after, bring back duty suppers and feeding the guards - rememner morale?

MightyHunter, you're not one of THEM are you? Tell me it wasn't your GEMS

"In every other Air Force in the world people have to provide food for themselves"

Grossly incorrect.

Volunteer requested to turn out the lights........

Must remind myself to cancel ops when I'm on a 16 hr+ day in theatre because I'm not entitled to food when serving my country.

So as well as having to buy all my own kit, pay extra to get decent life insurance, increase savings into an AVC to get a decent death in service and widows pension for my loved ones you want me to pay for my own food when flying????

Having a f**king laugh aren't you??

Hopefully all these people wingeing about aircrew rations have never helped themselves to butty boxes post sorties (that would be theft) and also never complained about being fed and watered on op transits that actually don't attract any scaling.

Next time you're on a long trail or trip to the desert don't forget to pop into the nearest NAAFI and buy your food and drink for the 9 hour flight.

Mind you, shouldn't worry about aircrew flying rations because at the current exit rates there won't be any aircrew left to feed!!

Rant off:*

Flying in theatre isn't what this is all about, its local flying that is the issue. So pick up your Teddy's and get used to paying for your lunch like the rest of us !

Release-Authirise
So the NAAFI (or SPAR Shop as it is now) will be open at 0400 for an early crew in? Fat Chance. Perhaps shops are always open when the blunt end are pretending to work but.....

My my we are all a bit tetchy arent we.
As a member of the winged master race surely you can remember to go to Asda/NAAFI etc or even, god forbid make yourself a packed lunch BEFORE you go on your little jolly round the sky or do you need someone to run after you as per usual.
Of course we blunties are always pretending to work without actually doing anything, the jets just magically fix themselves when the little pixies march in at one minute past midnight.

Mmmm enjoy those donuts while you can.............

Truckie
No-one is going on about OOA or SAR trials so cool your boots. Teddy last seen at 20K Ft with butty box in hand.............

Those little pixies you mentioned are they the lift pixies from the other thread about lift in turns or whatever, or a completely different group?

Samuraimatt

I havent seen those pixies you are on about, I am actually meaning the pixies at ISK that have all had enough and have all been re-named 'PVR pixies'.
Apparently you get FREE food off-shore so thats where they are all going.

"As a member of the winged master race surely you can remember to go to Asda/NAAFI etc or even, god forbid make yourself a packed lunch BEFORE you go on your little jolly round the sky or do you need someone to run after you as per usual."

I'm sure I could remember and manage. However, has anyone got a fridge I can keep the stuff in (to keep it safe to eat while I'm flying) while I sit around on my arse waiting for the jet to be ready for the 1000, no make that 1200, oops forgot some paperwork so let's make that 1500, nope still not ready so how about 1700, take-off!!

MightyHunter AGE - I'm sure you would never seek to benefit from a system you despise.

Is it the in-flight catering you object to or the people who recieve it??

MightyHunterAGE, you do have a chip on your shoulder eh?

Maybe you should stay off PPrune and get some more frames ready to load aircrew rations on.

And if it causes you so much distress and you are upset that someone may be getting something that you are not, stop whining and get yourself down to OASC.

You are giving the hard working lineys a bad name.

There, I feel much better for that. :}

I pay for meals in the mess 7 days a week, since I only receive 3 meals on average a week perhaps the blunties who are at the front of the queue at 12 and 5 o'clock every day should subsidies the meals I’m missing?? If I’m away from base for 10-12 hours at a time why should I pay for the pleasure, let’s be real!!!!!

Problem solved
 

The way I see it, the most pragmatic solution to this problem would be to stop paying flying pay to aircrew who are not in a flying tour and use the money saved to provide rations for those aircrew who are in a flying tour. :E

Problem solved!:ok:

Well I have to agree. I have received 'Lumpy Boxes' on too many LL sorties around the UK, even when not missing a meal. I could never see the point in them, they were full of junk and as such I used to bring in my own much healthier food. And before any one quotes Flt safety and all that crap on most of the AT fleet you have a fridge and microwave.

I fail to see why we should continue with this 2 tier RAF of winged and not winged. We are all people at the end of the day with the same basic human needs. Therefore why should all the flyers be blessed with better conditions than the equal human on the ground? The pathetic egotistical argument of 'should have done better at school' or 'can't beat 'em join em' has no place in today’s society and as such would be ridiculed and frowned upon in most company HR departments.

I have often come across winged personnel who do think they are a cut above and special. Granted, not everyone can be tarnished with this brush but there is a distinct level of selfish elitism that presides amongst some aircrew.

See the letters page in the RAF News this week and the cutbacks being enforced on personnel attending courses, where the first 30 days free food has been axed. Now, the average tom with £200 spare a month will have to pay for food when he is away on a compulsory course? What other civi company would send people away and not give them perks / expenses? This proves that your argument if selfish and flawed.

Therefore why should aircrew doing a 2 hr LL sortie from 0900-1100 receive rations just because they are flying??

I'm not bitter and twisted, just trying to get people to appreciate both side of the fence and how some people (inc the personnel that get the planes into the air, techies, drivers, chefs, all part of the team) feel.

It's that bad attitude that may leave the air-force with less people to look after the aircrew in all aspects, than pilots.

Rant over...constructive points only though as levels of maturity need to be maintained!!
:=

Aircrew should only eat food which has been properly prepared. FL350 with 4 hours to go is bad enough, but getting the sh*ts at 250 feet in a Herc would be less than amusing. So no, you certainly shouldn't bring your own !

Never did see the point of 1-3 or 3-5 hours rationing myself..... But 5-7 and more, indeed yes.

The stupid S1 box was a load of absolute cack when I stopped flying in 2002. Are they still as bad now?

Hi everybody,

it's my first post here as I just stumbled over this forum...

It seems that most air forces have the same problems. In our Air Force, we just had the same cut on the meals, and the way we solved it is, that we still get our flight meals, however, we have to pay half the price we would have to pay in the mess (only half, because in the mess the variety is better).

I think most of us (and most of the ground based guys :) ) are fine with this solution .

Cheers, Lifter91

Exactly, but instead of bringing everyone down, why not push to have standards raised? The fact that guards and other non-flyers on extended duties don’t get fed nowadays is being used as an excuse to remove a perk from flyers, but the older amongst us will remember duty suppers, exercise catering and stuffing one’s face during courses, so there was no two tier Air force when it came to food in the past, it’s only because the bean counters were allowed to take away those perks that created a precedence that allows the buggers to try it on again – for pity’s sake, someone tell them to **** off and take their rucksacks with them

Now I'm fifthly civi scum when I go away on a course I get fed for free, why should it be different for servicemen?

Edited to add 'welcome to the chap above, USAF or Luftwaffe?'

Hi there,

Luftwaffe.:ok:

Lifter

Give my regards to the General-Steinhoff-Kaserne if you're in town Lifer!

will do.
Have to go now. Gotta get up at five. See ya, good night.

Lifter

Might be abit off the point, but I always liked the way that butties for FJ fellas were cut into tiny squares. You always get a bread-filling-bread-bread grab first......... which means:.... filling-bread-bread-filling next.

I have personally flicked a piece of cucumber into the HUD of a Tonka, it was still next the Altitude when I landed!

Laugh, I nearly sh..... well, on the bright side, 12 months down the road, Ly Big jets will be able to T/O with 'x' more stuff, with the same crew, and same ODM figures!!! :E ( I wonder why? )

BEagle, I think you have a genuine point.

In terms of Duty of Care wouldn't all aircrew have to obtain a Food Safety/Hygiene Certificate? Otherwise, how can they provide their own sandwiches prepared to the proper guidelines?:ugh:

There would also have to be adequate facilities to store the sandwiches until flight time and of course they would have to be labelled appropriately.

At least I'll know for certain what's in my butties from now on!

MightyHunter AGE

I do wonder about you sometimes!
I recall that whenever we landed early (or on time) the first thing the groundcrew did was to literally ransack the galley of anything!!
I've even seen them take stuff that one of the crew had been saving for after landing. You guys took everything!! All the tea, coffee, milk, sugar, tinned food, every last thing. It was like a giant hoover after we landed.
And that was borne out if you ever went into the NLS crew room, where you could get a full, complete meal, courtesy of aircrew rations.

And now there is a rumour about the rations going and you are chuffed to bits!! You make me sick mate. Just pathetic, 'we can't have it, so you shouldn't have it either' do go and find yourself a life AGE. We can all see that you clearly go out of your way to foster good aircrew/groundcrew relations don't you!

Listen to BEagle, it will never happen, and it shouldn't ever happen. Christ man, how many more 'perks' do you want to lose? or are you only interested in those that affect the groundcrew and screw the rest?

TSM

Not wanting to detract from a good "them versus us" fight but the way I read the first post is that the only people it will affect are those that fly the shorter sorties, by day and not over the "lunch" period (whatever that is defined as). As rationing is based on authorised time, not actual time (or at least that was my understanding) the poeple who are going to "lose" are those who are authorised for sorties <1-4hrs (using SLCs figures) that land before (say) 1100hrs or take off after (say) 1400hrs. To me this is those in the training world and Fast Jets (and maybe rotary wing) and even them some careful auth sheet work will see the problem affecting even fewer. Can't see this affecting the Kinloss/Brize/Lyneham/Waddington eating teams at all (except perhaps for local trg sorties). And after Gordon Ramseys visit to an F3 sqn the FJ boys have no excuse for not knocking up a fine lunch in 25mins! Mountain out of a mole hill spings to mind IMHO.;)

You all need to cool your horses down just a little here, anyone would think that they were trying to cut your flying pay or something!!

I am not jumping up and down with joy either way if this 'perk' gets removed or not.

Zedder
However, has anyone got a fridge I can keep the stuff in (to keep it safe to eat while I'm flying) while I sit around on my arse waiting for the jet to be ready for the 1000, no make that 1200, oops forgot some paperwork so let's make that 1500, nope still not ready so how about 1700, take-off!!
Ok lets all rush around and send a jet up without carrying out the correct procedure and paperwork just because your sarnies are going off then eh?

Len Ganley
Hopefully all these people wingeing about aircrew rations have never helped themselves to butty boxes post sorties
MightyHunter AGE - I'm sure you would never seek to benefit from a system you despise.

Is it the in-flight catering you object to or the people who recieve it??
I object to neither, just because i have an opinion on how my taxes are being used that is different from yours I am wrong, last time I looked we lived and a free country where i am free to make my own mind up on things.

XferSynbol
MightyHunterAGE, you do have a chip on your shoulder eh?

Maybe you should stay off PPrune and get some more frames ready to load aircrew rations on.

And if it causes you so much distress and you are upset that someone may be getting something that you are not, stop whining and get yourself down to OASC.

You are giving the hard working lineys a bad name.
Grow up. I have no chip or axe to grind it and as for wanting to be aircrew I have never been interested, engineering has and always will be my thing, dont think that everyone is an aircrew wannabe. (oh and btw i am more than qualified to be one, just because I am groundcrew dont think I am stupid)

TSM
You make me sick mate.
Stop eating so much free food then
Just pathetic, 'we can't have it, so you shouldn't have it either' do go and find yourself a life AGE. We can all see that you clearly go out of your way to foster good aircrew/groundcrew relations don't you!
You dont know me so dont comment on things you know nothing about. I have an excellent working realationship with the aircrew at ISK. Again because my opinion differs from yours on free food I am obviously wrong. Sad..........
I recall that whenever we landed early (or on time) the first thing the groundcrew did was to literally ransack the galley of anything!!
True, what we should do is leave the food on the aircraft to rot so that it stinks for the next crew to enjoy then eh? Part of the flight servicing is to ensure left over rations are removed, yum yum waste not want not then, whats free for one should be free for all.

Oh and just as an afterthought, the reason a lot of linies eat the leftover rations is because they dont have time to go to the mess as they are too busy fixing the jets to keep you flying.

MightyHunter AGE

You keep going mate, I love to see someone like you digging holes for themselves. I have never read such a load of utter sanctimonious crap in all my life! You shouldn't be in the RAF - you should be a saint, you're so good.

As for the groundcrew taking the food off the jet after we land - hey, I don't have a problem with that at all. I would suggest to you that it is infact theft, but I couldn't care less, and if you think its OK, then that's alright by me, after all, you are 'Super AGE'

Oh, and you 'have an excellent working relationship with the aircrew at ISK' - I'm sure you do, well done. I'll bet you don't tell any of them to their faces some of the comments you say on this forum though, do you?

And you want to comment on how your taxes are spent?? On Aircrew rations? You really do need to get a life. I am all for not wasting my taxes, but on aircrew rations? Are you serious man? Are you for real?

And the 'yum yum waste not want not then, whats free for one should be free for all' Yes, that pretty much sums you up, if I can't have it, why should you?

And your final blast of.........wait for it.............'as an afterthought, the reason a lot of linies eat the leftover rations is because they dont have time to go to the mess as they are too busy fixing the jets to keep you flying' Now that just takes the biscuit. I would suggest that with the flying rate at ISK at the moment, that sort of comment does your cause no good whatsoever. On the contrary, you make things worse with comments of that nature.

So, just to summarise then:

'I don't get it, so the aircrew shouldn't get it'
'I don't want my taxes wasting on aircrew rations'
'We eat the left over rations so they don't go to waste'
'We eat the left over rations 'cos we are too busy to go to the mess'

Right then, I guess that will be all bo11ocks then? Eh?

TSM

Get over it TSM your days of free food are numbered, dry your eyes.

Yep you got it in one I am Super AGE!

And lastly, you shouldnt be in the RAF, well like most folk who have had enough of a two tier privelaged few ruling the roost, I am soon going off shore so I dont have to deal with sanctimonious, overpaid, pompus, know it all, whinging people like you.

TTFN

Hey, Super AGE,

Just a word of thanks fro me for showing your true colours! Now, at least, everyone can see that all your previous postings were cr4p! Well done.

Now hurry up and get back to the oily, greasy things and get my aircraft fixed, pronto! i've got a nice Beef Curry to eat before taxi, finished off with a slice of DCS and 6 Mars Bars before TOC. I think I'll settle down for a bit of a kip, before I start on my main course, now what shall I have today?? Choices, choices, lifes just a huge big eatex!
Oh, those poor groundies, so hard-worked and no time to get to the mess, shame. Maybe I'll leave them a nice yoghurt for their tea!

TSM
read again "so I dont have to deal with sanctimonious, overpaid, pompus, know it all, whinging people like you." You means you not anyone else, oh and BTW it shows how long it is since you flew, DCS, you are well out of touch (thankfully).

Oh and thanks for showing your true feelings on the groundcrew "Oh, those poor groundies, so hard-worked and no time to get to the mess, shame." Shouldnt expect much else really should I, folk like you give the rest of the aircrew a bad name. Hope you feel proud of yourself fostering such great aircrew/groundcrew releationships.......................

Buuuurrrrrrp, burp, oh sorry Super AGE, just finished off my egg, bacon, burp, sausage, beans, fried bread, burp, mushrooms and black pudding free breakfast burp. All free of course (aircrew you see) Can I bring you back a cold bacon sarny maybe? What about the rest of your boys have they managed to find time to eat yet? You are a sad man AGE!

Now then, have you got my jet sorted yet? right, well come on then chaps, lets get airborne for a couple of hours shall we? We might have to extend just a few minutes mind, to make sure we finish off the last of the food!

Have a good weekend Super AGE, I now really do have to go flying - off for another hop to the sand pit, see you all next week!
TSM