was this on tv or the internet?

I'm interested in the mechanics of these flights. Presumably they are not in touch with ATC otherwise the benefit of surprise is lost. At what altitude do these interceptions take place? Do these flights obstruct flights from North and Eastern Europe flying northwestwards to the Americas? How does the European parliament view surprise military thrusts at its borders? If UK airspace is being infringed, why isn't the European Parliament onto it? Why is it not viewed as an unfriendly act to have such military probing flights these days? I just find it slightly unsettling having apparently unannounced and uncontrolled military flights flying in areas where I have flown airliners- or do they have their own corridors for this sort of thing.

If we are going to have again masses of military incursions, and probably Russian submarines once again probing Swedish, Norwegian and British coastlines, then time to start sinking them? Or nuke Vladivostok?

8 Bears came around the top today and according to the BBC were intercepted by Norwegian F15's. Then joined by 4 Tornado's as they neared the UK ADR. Sending squadrons now?

The purpose of these flights are for training and to probe the defences of States along the way (for the Russians own intelligence purposes). Hardly a surprise that they don't come announced or file a civilian flight plan :).

The Bear is a large turbo prop aircraft. It's service ceiling is around 10,000 Metres.

It depends on exactly where they fly and at what altitude. But potentially they can get in the way.

The flights all take place in international airspace where military aircraft (including NATO and European air arms) can and do operate as they wish. It's called 'Due Regard' and basically they don't worry about any other civil flights other than to not hit them in the interests of self preservation. For the civil controllers it is unsatisfactory and poses a perceived danger to civil operations, but it's legal.

UK sovereign airspace is not being breached. Only airspace for which the UK has civil ATC responsibility or military air defence responsibility. It's no worse than the constant infringements in the Middle East civil air lanes by US or UK aircraft operating under 'Due Regard'. In some ways it's actually a lot less dangerous since the Bears take a long time to get to the airspace involved and are tracked by the military who keep the civil controllers advised.

The West do the same in other areas. We can't claim any moral high ground.

As above, they go where they want, where they want. It's not nice to watch it from the ground either, but there's nothing that can be done other than to vector civil flights away from the problem areas.

There is no element of surprise.

The aircraft are tracked by the Norwegians and the picture is shared. As the cross 30E arounnd the Kola peninsula a penetration time for the UKADR is calculated - working on the assumption they will continue S/SE and penetrate. It is over 2 hours. The QRA takes 1 hour to get there, so there is plenty of time to have a meal, brief, stroll to the jet etc.

Most times they turn back before a scramble, the only tricky ones being when they turn round after reching the Lofoten islands, in which the wheels were normally in the wells as they turned - which meant a quick dump, land and turn.

The normal Bear cruise altitude is around FL360. They normally do not talk to ATC or file a flight plan*. They stay in international airspace over international waters and do not infringe the 12nm limit, so they therefore contravene no laws.

There might be a few eyebrows raised about it, but they pose no military threat. If they wanted to they could launch their ALCMs over the Kola. The general reaction is a general scratching of heads wondering what point Putin is trying to make. It's certainly not one about military might. The Russian armed forces are so emasculated and their population imploding so fast that they are - nukes aside - militarily insignificant.

*Going back to the 80s, the Russians started filing flight plans for their missions in the Norwegian Sea/GIUK gap and then complained if they were intercepted and we broke the standard separation rules.

4 F3s direct from Leeming, apparently.

Isn't sending them direct from Leeming a contingency plan?

Edit: Answered much better above than my feeble attempts.

Norwegian F-15s? They kept that quiet.... :hmm:

- as do the Eastern bloc airline pilots when we send our aircraft in:)

Loads about all of this in Mil and other fora.

Yes they could cross the path of civil traffic, and if they come via the Iceland/Faroes gap (which used to be the favourite) to work with the fleet in the Atlantic they will head south at some point, plus they used to fly down to Conakry via that route. Levels bewteen 1000' and Fl360 but they will certainly know YOU are there.

8 bears:eek: Have we got enough AD aircraft?

Orac - you can still get the odd 'surprise' arrival even with all the kit in pace.

hope the bear is tcas2 ver 7 or better equipped..
other scenario is that plane spotter at leuchars or conningsby picks up his mobile phone calls moscow and says 2 aircraft tail numbers ... took off
at ...

a) I don't expect they will be transponding
b) their radar will see you well in advance.

8 Bears in formation ? That's 64 contra-rotating propellers. What a noise ! Do you think they would do a low flypast over my house ?

Maybe when you find out why on earth the US are investing billions in installing new ICBMs along the Polish/Belarus border you will be close to the answer why the Russians have restarted these flights. What's the US excuse for this ? Oh yes, to guard against rogue missiles coming in from - er - Iran.

What the US are looking at installing are 10 interceptor Mx with kinetic warheads. The location of the Mx and radars are only effective against IRBM/ICBMs from the Middle/Far East. They're useless against Russian missiles over the pole.

Speak to a Russian strategic analyst and he'll agree totally. Putin is making up threats and problems where they don't exist for some reason. Most think it is because it plays well with the domesti caudience to be standing up to the West and he's looking at getting the vote behind his candidate in the next Presidential election. But why is mystery, he already has overhwelming support and is turning even semi-allies such as Germany against him.

The biggest fear is that he actually believes the stuff he's coming out with....

See link below:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...283041,00.html

I am based at Waddo and I am sure we don't have any Fast Jets, unless Sentinel counts. :rolleyes:

No-one not even Russia would want a nuclear war - it's pointless, it would be like shooting yourself in the foot. If Russia wanted to do anything harmfull they could stop all civilian flights into their airports from the uk But i'm sure we are still travelling there everyday as if nothing is wrong.

What a sound track that must have been. Since when did R.Nor.A.F. have F-15s I thought they flew F-16s ??
Be lucky
David

Avgas,

I believe you are correct, Norway don't have F15's but F16's!
Just another slip-up from our wonderful BBC!

Huh?
 

This thread mentions "Eastern Bloc" wtf.. There is no such thing.

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/s....php?t=1559956

Maybe the US "oopses" a potential response?

Similar thread here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=275230

PD
:)