Question for the military rotor guys...
 

Sorry if this is a bit off toppic but can anyone offer some advice?

Short background:
Im 18, just compelted my PPL(H) and really really want to fly turbine helicopters in the most challenging and difficult situations possible, quite simply because I like a challenge and enjoy scaring the :mad: out of myself.....I could take out an enormous loan and pay for the CPL stuff myself but then I wouldnt have much experience, no turbine time etc...

Now logically going into one of the services would provide adventure, challenge and the awsome flying that im after, but....which service does the most challenging and varied rotory flying?

And is it wrong that the only reason I want to join the services is because I want to fly helicopters and not because I want to fight for my country etc?

Any comments or advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

N.B....This is not an argument about which one of the services is the "best"...you all do a great job and wouldnt really work without each other!

With that reason to fly HM's finest wokkas, I suggest you stay in Civvy Street. Military flying is probably too much regulated for you.:ugh:

me too.:\






.

Tegwin - as I said on your thread on Rotorheads, the only service where you can be almost 100% certain of plenty of RW flying is the Navy. The RAF statistically will stream more people to FW, and the AAC officers don't fly for long. There is no direct entry from civvy strasse to the AAC NCO pilot cadre, AFIAK.

Get down to the recruiting office, ask for a potential officers visit to Culdrose or Yeovilton, and make up your mind.

But he did say
Surely that doesn't include sitting in the dip or circling at 8000ft with the AP on! :E

Sorry mate but if you are into scaring yourself then go and do it..somewhere else. You will "never" fly solo so that means you will have some poor sod with you or possibly in the back!
Yes. Thats why its called the MILITARY No one expects to fight but given the current climate what would you think?

So in the end all you want is a toy to play with and a cheap way to get some flying hours..........


Go and mature for a few years
Shaun

As a military pilot, particularly military, you will be expected to be a leader and provide inspiration to your crew.

Can't say I really want to follow you. Good luck with civvy street.

Wokka

Have to say I agree with the lines above.

I have done 27 years of RAF helicopters. I have been scared more often than I like to remember. I have several medals for turning up in silly places and I don't want any more. I have no medals for bravery and I want to keep it that way.

I believe my rearcrew support me in that approach.

Sven

If you get on my cab with that attitude, I'll shoot you myself.

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots... but there are no old, bold pilots."


And even fewer living thrill-seeker pilots (at least not living for long).

Absolute b@llocks.

Most of us joined with that attitude, and it is the duty of flying training to to temper that enthusiasm into exactly what we need.
What we need is a lot more people like him, and a few less health and safety conscious smug w@nkers!

And don't give me the "I joined to fight for my country " cr@p. We all joined to challenge ourselves and have fun, secretly hoping it would be a bit like Top Gun.

Seriously, the smug idiots on here need to take a look at themselves.
I would rather 1 person with this attitude joined than 100 wheezy, computer geek, unfit wannabies worried about OASC etc.

Tegwin, there are plenty of old bold pilots, they are too busy sh@gging girls half their age to waste time posting with the losers on here. Give it a go

I joined up for the challenge, but also because at that point in time I was idealistic and enthusiastic *shakes head* and believed in my country.

The point you're missing is that the challenge IS the fighting for your country. You'll do training in the UK, and aside from the odd bit of low level, nothing earth shaking.

When you go on Ops and the noise complaints are conducted with AK47's, life does indeed become a bit more challenging. It's why I'm still happy to go abroad. Though I agree with the above, I'll take the tin for being there, getting anything else just means it's all gone wrong!

Tourist I've flown with too many would be "Top Gun" wannabees. How many times do they have to overcook it before it all goes wrong..sod all to do with health and safety.



Shaun

Totally agree tourist
 

Must say, I totally agree with Tourist.

You are right chaps, we don't want fists full of nutbaggery in command of good military kit so they can break it and frighten the pax.....BUT we do need people with this level of enthus. so we can finish their long and difficult training with a chap who is still motivated (who probably maturer due to the experience).

Live on a different island to you but the requirement is the same. Have trained mil pilots for a while and wish they were as keen as this.

Cheers

:ok:

Shaun,

I am not saying they should still be exactly like that by the time they get front line, that is for flying training to sort out, but there is nothing wrong with the attitude before joining.

You may not like it, but Gung Ho people form the basis of any decent military force, particularly your own Royals!

See what happened recently in Iran. A shortage of gung ho in all quarters.
Contrast with strapping booties to the outside of Apache. If it had failed it would have been held up as an example of all that is wrong with gung ho boldness.

BUT IT DID NOT. And that is what makes the british military great.

Guys, give the kid a break. I was like that when I joined up, some of my rear-crew would argue that I still am. I am a little jealous that he can afford his own PPL(H) but we will gloss over that.

Although the tone of his enthusiasm is obviously going to rub the old and bold up the wrong we still, despite the best efforts of many governments, have a very effective training system which will hopefully contain and direct his energies in the right direction.

That being said, the points about the Army Aviation world are true from my point of view, the Lynx is dead, long live another Lynx; the RN don't get the chance to do anything really interesting not withstanding the boys in BAS so join the Air Force I say but then I am biased where by the time he is through training he will be ready for the invasion of Iran and may see more excitement than he hoped for. You have got to really want it though.

Good Luck.

Mate, go for it.

There are a lot of miserable old gits here who resent your attitude, maybe you do need to grow up a bit, but military flying training will get your attitude where it should be.

A lot of RW folks are failed FW and have a sad attitude to go with that, dont listen to them.:cool:

I fully agree that RN is the way to go if you purely want to fly, then RAF followed by AAC.

If you want to command people, consider the AAC first.

If you want to have lots of time off and wear chip bag hats, the RAF is the way ahead.:E

Hmmm,

Most FW are failed Rotary. Fact-In a number of cases I have watched them pack.
Most RN are failed RAF. If you want to fly, join a flying service. If your marginal, join a service that barely floats, and does a bit of flying on the side, as long as it's not too hot/not too high.
The taste is in the pudding.

Two RAF Personnel, captured in GW1. Had **** beaten out them...said very little.
RN personnel, taken hostage by the Iranians having put up NO resistance, said anything it took to get their Ipod back/Get the balti away from Turny's grazing.

good baiting, but unlike most loadies you are talking total cobblers

True, and perhaps not surprising considering they'd had appropriate training

Don't believe all you read in the Sun/hear on Al Jazeera. My info is that the RM lads said nothing, and it's likely that only two of the RN said anything. We were not at war with Iran, so they had nothing to hide.

Go for it Tegwin. Too many talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Hmmm, thought I only mentioned the RN, not RM.
As your profile says you are here to kill and fly a boxkite, perhaps we should have launched you in an Eagle Claw attempt to free the balti munchers.
Or perhaps you could have painted them in their nice grey suits.

Too many give up walking the line, to take up talking a good line!

I spent a good percentage of 20 plus years teaching RW studs of all three services ab initio and operational flying - it is hard to tell from the lad's post what his character is really like - a bit of youthful bravado perhaps to cover up a real fear of failure. But a couple of words - in this day and age if you join the military be prepared to fight. In my experience those with overt bravado generally were covering up a weakness and some of the bravest I have seen were some of the quietest.
GAGS
E86

wokka meister , youre a pr@t , it's NCA like you that the branch has tried to get rid, of in the last few years. All I can think is that you're a very young inexperienced little boy who didn't listen to some of the older and bolder at NCAITC 55 sqn 60 Sqn or the OCF. Grow up get a life and stop baiting others. If you cant say anything constructive then shut the **** up. If I ever have the displeasure of flying with you I'll teach you how a real LM, that wears the proper brevet, respects all those around him/her.[pass the fire axe please]
Mate . If you wanna fly in the military go for!! , curb the attitude a bit , scaring yourself and others wont earn you respect , be loyal open honest and respectful of others will. Good luck and don't let the buggers put you off. Good luck.

Whoops - PPrune thread descends into bitter inter-service name calling shocker!!!!!

Bit shocked at your venom Rude. Especially as we have actually worked together for several years.
Whilst you are up at Cranditz with your head in the PTC bucket, I am doing tour after tour in the sandpit.
We need an unstable pilot with no military ethos like we need a box for an elephant.
Don't forget where you came from, and that things have changed since you left.
Now dry your eyes, think about falling out your bunk on the O Boat and we'll have a drink at the next crewmans dinner.

PS: put the fire axe down, I offered you the chance on the quarterdeck and you found somewhere else you had to be!

Tegwin,

There's nothing wrong at all with not wanting to fight for your country - I hope none of us actually 'wants' to. However, if you're going to join us then you ultimately have to be prepared to do so. That may involve killing people and having people trying to kill you.

Yes, the life and the flying can be great fun - but they both come with a committment that has a very good chance of being called upon.

If you can accept that - go for it.

WM, How many people join the military with military ethos, or for that matter know what it is these days. In the current climate I thought Mil ethos was taught and developed after one joined and if it was not instillable or not accepted the individual was removed from training or left the service.

I don't ever remember being told I didn't have enough Mil ethos when I joined, and in fact I don't remember ever being described as a stable/unstable pilot before I had any mil flying training.

It is clear that you have flown with some pilots who may not have paid you the respect you feel you are due or some pilots who are not Yeager, and that is unfortunate. But we should remember that on page one is a guy who asked about military aviation and not about your opinion of him and his attitude.

I find it hard to believe, given some of your comments of late, that you didn't say some things that might not have been wise when you were 18/19. Lets leave the psych assessments to the recruiters mate.

TEGWIN, have a lash mate, at least then you can say you had a go. If you are worried about the attitudes here then take a trip down under, plenty of mil flying training available. If you get chopped you can PM Wokkameister and tell him he was right, if not you'll be...

Quote:
....too busy sh@gging girls half [your] age to waste time posting with the losers on here. Give it a go

Tightlywound...

I'd suggest that if he is "sh@gging girls half his age" the only place he'll be going is jail...

You're right - that's really a "spec. aircrew only" perk. ;)

(Do they still have spec aircrew and if not, is this why)?

bad livin, it was the OLD pilots sh*gging girls half their age - that would make them somewhere between 20 and 27 :}

Tightlywound,

Some fair points and put in a very eloquent style. It wasn't just the attitude to military life that made me add my twopenneth, but also the fact that 'he enjoys scaring himself'.
Having had the joys of teaching at DHFS, I can tell you that some people with this attitude do sneak through and cause prematurely graying amongst many.
As for not getting the respect I may deserve, that bothers me not a jot. You give what you get, but an honest answer is worth far more than false hope. I'd expect one from you!

Tegwin, if you want to get properly involved in the battlefield then join the AAC and go for Apache - everything else is just glorified truck driving. You can get shot at on SH but at least with an AH64 you can give as good as you get - pilots don't even get to fire the weapons on SH!

Strange how the FAA only like the RM BAS now they own and man it - they used to look down their noses at NCO pilots and then had to swallow their pride and commission them all.

Join the RN if you want shagged out Sea King SH or Merlin ASW (without a torpedo to fire).

Join the RAF if you want a lot of time abroad moving bergens and pax or if you think you have the skills and nerve to be a SAR god:)

Wokka meister--
Qoute -Whilst you are up at Cranditz with your head in the PTC bucket, I am doing tour after tour in the sandpit.
We need an unstable pilot with no military ethos like we need a box for an elephant.
Don't forget where you came from, and that things have changed since you left.


Up at Cranditz with my head in a bucket I've learnt that the moulding and development of young men and women is a skill , obviously from your short time at instructing, at that oh so wonderfull DHFS Sqn ,they taught you little about honing that desire to fly.
I agree with you totally!! you have enough egotistical idiots flying the best helicopter Ive operated on. Oh boy I hear about them daily.However unlike you I decided that after 18 yrs front line service , ground and air! it was time to pass my experiences onto these young thrusters who wish to join our merry throng. (and take a well earned break with my kid)
It wasnt venom it was how I felt , theres only four people who decides if this young chap has it or not , DIOR, OACTU, 55 then OCF, by the time its got to your end it SHOULD be sorted. I have never forgot where I came from and what I was like , thats why EVERYONE deserves the right chnce to prove themsilves.

I know its rich coming from me, but give the kid a chance , all he might need is development and eductaion, let those well before you do there job and then if he cant make it on the SQN you do yours. I KNOW you do it well.

For the record , the bunk story always goes down a storm and on the quarter deck , I was afraid to chip any more of your teeth!! Now go throw another shrimp on the barbey , or shake the sand out yer socks. Or do what hooch and I are doing , get a job in civvy street and kiss the ****ty life goodbye matey!!
BY the way I can get you a box for that elephant..... if you so wish .


Any way your elephants have enough problems from the mister masters you have to put up with ,

Must go , have a poorly leg that needs attention
take care big fella , keep yer head down and ill try get down sometime , if you fancy a break from the sand and want a week away gis us a shout

Aaah I used to be a SAR god but now I'm just very well paid and don't have to go into the Cairngorms at night in between snow showers:eek:

HF

Snow!
 

Must be Lossie based, the st of us don't dodge the showers, just get the job done. Btw, not your fault your almost as quiet as Wattisham...
In answer to the question, if you wanna be be a rotary pilot, then go go go. !!!!!

Chears guys for all your replies...even if some are contradicting and rather destrubing:8

In my origional post I didnt mean that I want to scare the :mad: out of myself intentionally...I like to push my flying skills to their limit to get the best out of the machine and the situation without overspanking anything...the last thing I want is a big black mark in my logbook! Im sure you can all appreciate the learning curve im on...I have got my liscense yes, but does it mean I am a good pilot?...NO:=...But practice and some pointers will hopefully make me just that eventually!

Since starting the thread I have re-read all of the leaflets, websites etc and it really does look like an attractive career, not just for the flying, but also for the adventure...I see it as a way to see the "real world" somehow and would use it as a tool to imrpove myself and "grow up a bit".....

Although the RAF is attractive at the end of the day its most likley to be the RN...but im still undecided...

I guess I should try and get hold of my local office and see if I can get an apointment to see someone with some answers...

No doubt what I have just written will be pulled appart and analysed before I am accused of being imature again:ok:

Chears guys/girls.

Tegwin - no, you are doing exactly the right thing ie getting as much info as possible before you make your decision. A word of warning however, the careers offices (or whatever we are calling them nowadays) have always tried to recruit into the areas where manning is short and so they may push you towards what they want rather than what is best for you.

As for the RN, well that's up to you but look at how many of their pilots transfer to the RAF, leave early for the airlines or get on QHI courses to get away from going to sea.

I would suggest trying to visit some flying stations (just a letter to the CO usually gets you in) to see first hand what goes on and talk to the guys doing the jobs.

Yes there is no doubt Air Forces have it easier than the other two services!!
GAGS
E86

I can't comment on Eagles unqualified statement but:

in the RAF you will always get more aircrew together on a unit. In the RN you may be more likely to serve on an isolated flight were aircrew are a minority. As for AAC no idea.

PN
Right bait eh! Unqualified I don't think so - Navy pilot, flown three tours including RSVN with Air force and US Army - flew with RN - QHI course at Ternhill (took out the Westland prize) - civvy instructor with army - many multi service exercises - saw how the others lived. Qualified to comment but a bit of a windup anyway.
GAGS
E86

Eagle, you bit, sorry you picked up on the wrong meaning of unqualified.

I meant your statement was unqualified not that you were unqualified. I did check your profile first.