Cornet Wales (Prince Harry)
 

Does anyone else out there feel that possible service of Prince Harry in Iraq has been getting far too much media coverage? What about the rest of the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and the work they're doing? What about the repatriations of those who have died on this Government's latest misadventure? I know we're downsizing but it's not a one man Army surely? Either he goes and and that's that or he doesn't and he sticks to his promise to leave. Just wondered if anyone else was getting as sick as I am!

Personally I don't give a monkies about whether Harry is getting p***y about not being allowed to serve in Iraq, but all this extra publicity surrounding his units deployment will make the soldiers he is so concerned about leading all that more at risk from trophy hunting insurgents. Good luck all those deploying :ok:

There is the valid argument that his scalp will be much sought-after by the insurgents, and so all his squadron/regt will be on the receiving end of even higher numbers of attacks/IEDs, which does make the risk to them all much higher.

Did they sign on to be such a target? - probably not.

letsgoandfly

Yes I agree with you also, I'm sick of hearing about it.
I think he should have just gone out there and got on with it - endex. Unfortunately, all this hype from the media about will he? won't he? when will he go? when will he come back? has frankly been the cause of all of this.
He should have gone, without the media or the press or the public knowing about it and got on with the job, if that's what he wants. Maybe when he got back, something quiet and sensible could have been released to the press along the lines of 'hey you lot 'Arry's back from Iraq' Hoorah!

TSM

But Harry wants to fight, ......... lets face it, he has had plenty of practice, but maybe he is scared that AQI might hit back unlike newspaper photographers.


Anyway, who :mad: cares.

Just hope the poor lads he 'commands' stay safe, and ALL return home Safe and in one piece.

Folks, think about it...he's already there, has been for a while. In that environment the bad guy wouldn't spot him from anyone else and because the baddies understandably would view him as juicy target worth putting an extra effort in to, the best way of throwing them of the scent would be to fuel a media debate as to whether he should go or not - thereby implying that he isn't already...

Whilst it raises the profile of the forces in Iraq, then surely it is a good thing? If he does deploy, Iraq is a safe bet for the front pages. If he doesn't, then unless something happens, he will be remembered as the little upstart that he is. Of course he can also exercise the option to resign his commission, and wait for JPA to sort out his payments....

Corrona

So who was it watching Liverpool and Chelsea (with Chelsea) yesterday:confused: :confused:

there you go, the bloke at the game, was just another one of hewitt's kids - if you couldn't tell the difference how could them them lot hope to from ???yds??

Brandnew
 

I think you have missed the point. Like you, we in the military have always appreciated the fact that our Royaltiy join the military and take part. In fact kings lead the charge in medievil times. I would welcome his participation in Iraq if it wasn't for the form of warfare we are currently involved in and if it wouldn't be such a political windfall for our enemy. If he goes to Iraq, the soldiers he serves with will be at greater risk than if he didn't. Do their parents, wives and children desrerve that?

I believe he really wants to serve but also believe his serving will be of great concern to those who have familly members that serve with him.

Had this situation not received the media coverage that it has then the matter may not have arised.

Sharmine

It seems to me that the insurgents are already going all out for our people in Iraq, so there probably isn't much 'extra' risk for the troops that Harry commands.

He is a commissioned officer, he is trained & ready, & should go - to not do so would be to imply that his life is worth more than any other & therefore too valuable to risk out there. Yes, it would be a coup for the insurgents if he was killed, wounded or taken hostage, but it's probably no more likely to happen to him than any other serviceman out there. The Royal Family have always served in the military, as they should do, & they should not be above being put in harm's way for their country.

It would be good to see some of the politicians' kids in uniform!

Well that is you lot told again.

BTW Brandnew I think your spell checker is broken.

Oh, you also forgot to put "treatment" after appalling.

:ok:

Brandnew, I doubt any of what you are saying is anything other than your idealist opinion. Maybe you should of preceeded your tirade of drivel with IMHO?

You cannot possibly know the level of increased risks to those soldiers serving alongside Harry and IMHO I doubt they appreciate the extra risk that the General Haigh characters seem willing to dismiss as part of serving in the army, even though its alongside Harry.

brandnew
 

I fully agree with all you say at Post #11. Why cant the media just leave the guy alone. As for giving these b******** spouting all this s*** of what they will do to him airtime,whose bl**** side is the BBC on?

Brandnew

You still haven't got it right have you

You said to your last spelling corrections offered


Yes, instead of correcting/deleting your errors why don't you delete your crappy comment

Use it yourself first if your going to comment on others.

People who live in glass houses......:= :=

Well, if this is going down to the vote then mine goes to Brandnew, well said IMHO!

Brandnew, I too agree with you. HRH is a qualified officer and as such has "signed on" with the rest of us. I would be interested to hear the comments of the mother of Prince Harry's replacement should the Prince not be allowed to deploy. We just need to media to back off.....

I also usually find that those people who resort to personal insult have lost the argument, so judging by some comments on this thread it appears that you are right.

:D

MoD spin doctors in a tiz?
 

In my opinion Mr Wales should stay with his unit regardless of the posting, however the MoD is in a no win situation on the spin doctoring front what ever happens.

If they don't send him to Basra then the media will say he is getting better treatment than the average servicman.

If one of his troop gets killed the press will say that he was the target and encourage the greaving relatives to publicly go after the MoD, Queen and who ever else in the system the press can think of to give a hard time on the grounds that Mr Wales being present created "extra" danger for the others in his troop.

The worst situation for UK PLC is if he is taken prisoner, that would be a PR disaster for the MoD that would run and run.

If Mr Wales was unfortunate enough to be killed the PM would have to answer to the Queen (that would be a very interesting conversation that I hope won't happen).

That is enough of putting the goverment type PC attitude, in my opinion Mr Wales is correct when he says that he would loose credability if he is withdrawn from the deployment, this is also true of UK PLC if the goverment is commited to this policy in Iraq then is should show the world that commitment and and be ready to endure what ever happens as a result of that policy.

The question is will the goverment have the same amount of courage when facing the press as British (and other) servicemen show each day in Iraq and Afganistan?.............. I think not!

He takes his Mums shilling so he should go.

However, the increased threat to his Unit cannot be ignored and so is it really fair on them?

Any comparison to Andrews efforts does not count, IMHO. He fought in a War that had a clearly defined and identifiable enemy. Also, it enjoyed the overwhelming support of the British Public. None of that is the case in this latest adventure. So, as well as the increased threat, his participation could well do further harm to the already diminishing support for the Royal Family in this country. Personally, I think it is high time the Royals found some other train set to play with other than the Military. Some of them treat their uniforms like dressing up clothes anyway.

Hat on.

Just to clear things up...
 

Just to clear something up... I respect the decision of Cornet Wales to serve in Iraq and didn't start this thread to give him a hard time. What I am concerned about is the amount of publicity it is getting compared to the lack of publicity the rest of the Armed Forces are getting for serving on operations there. Do the media (and therefore the general public) hear about the lack of equipment and manpower on a day to day basis? Do they know we're having to make do with very old aircraft? Do they know about Government penny-pinching that could potentially put our lives on the line? Probably not. That's why I started this, not to give a soldier a hard time.

Letsgoandfly.
Sadly, the answer to most of your questions is 'No'. The wider population is far more concerned with paying their Mortgage, finding a Dentist, getting a Doctors appointment, finding a decent school for their kids or working out which credit card to use this week. The Military do not figure highly in their daily lives, indeed, more and more actually seem to think that current Military Ops, under the direction of Mr Blair, is adding to their woes - Air Travel, fuel prices, militants.
I am a Governor at a High School in this area and they have just introduced 'Uniformed Service' as a BTEC type qualification. Out of a student population of 1100, they have had 23 applicants. It is not a popular addition with the majority of teachers. Furthermore, I have yet to find a picture of the Queen anywhere on the premises. As to playing the National Anthem........:*
The times they are a changing.:(

Rules of Engagement
 

At the risk of getting booed or jeered, I suggest you could do worse that read the leader in the Telegraph under Rules of Engagement. Or at least try to read it objectively. I think it covers the situation clearly.

brandnew,

Agree with your comments 100%.

Tigs2,

Agree with you on that second bit...

HW

Brandnew

I am 100% in agreement with your comments.

There would seem to be a bit of LMF amongst some, who have a lot to say but have very little to offer, in the way of support.

To all over there, keep up the good work whoever you are! :ok:

Cheers

Impact on AT Fleet
 

Will the service at BZN improve, or indeed, highlight the fragile nature of RAF AT Fleet?:O

I have no great interest in whether Harry serves in Iraq or not but what I can say is that the MOD PR machine is to blame for the media feeding frenzy that surrounds this decision. Why was he not permitted to deploy quietly with no fanfare? His troop could have been deployed anywhere in the world on paper - to satisfy the medias unending curiosity - and then ended up in Iraq, served their time and returned - when an annoucement could have been made!

Getting back to the debacle of the MOD press office - their tacit support for the Navy hostage sales campaign, their attempt to bury the news on 6 Sqn's early demise makes me wonder where our leader are getting their advice from? All I can say is that the uniformed element within that particular department has been decimated in recent years as the civil service (note the lack of capitals) disestablishes military positions and fills them with their own form of ineptitude. The lack of military expertise, brainpower, and experience is sadly lacking in many areas now - and it is irrecoverable.

Dear Mr Letsgoandfly
I am doing my best to raise public awareness about the lack of equipment and manpower.
But it does need some whistle blowers to get the media and the public to sit up and take notice, many wisper in corners but few shout it from the roof tops!!!
As for Harry I don't care if he goes or stays but the top brass should have discussed his possible deployment before he started his training and not after.

brandnew, for my part (notwithstanding your one man JSP101 impersonation), you were doing fine up to;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brandnew

In essence, there are far more newsworthy stories than the upcoming deployment of Cornet Wales: the total lack of funding for essential UOR projects; the shameful waste of money on such projects as Typhoon, T45 and the Nimrod MK4; the appalling treatment of our wounded; the 18 month delay on mineproof vehicles for Basra.

---

I would have hoped that you weren't yet another "can't see beyond the current tribal hostilities" experts. Look at the bigger picture as there are some potent bad buggers out there who are lying low just now. OK; for various reasons, the Typhoon and Nimrod 4 are late and over budget but we will probably still need them and the T45s.

My simple view is that the Prince Harry has been commissioned and joined his Unit. If they deploy then so should he. If he takes a hit, it will be very sad but hardly a national catastrophe. I have seen the responsibility for making his Unit a prize target argument in many of the Posts here. That may be so and we need the Media to wind in their necks for the duration of his Tour. Secondly, why are we convincing ourselves that it can only have one big negative impact? I'm sure the likes E Rommel would have taken such a disadvantage and turned to an advantage. Of course Johnny RH will want to capture the lad or at least kill him. To take randomness away from either, he will have to make additional effort and probably in greater concentration. He will probably show a greater presence and take greater and bolder risks. He's up against a trained and disciplined force that will capitalise on any mistakes and recklessness. Instead of viewing it as intolerable risk and overwhelming odds, lets look for a target rich environment.

I do hope that he and his return alive and in one piece.

Brandnew is coming across as a bit of a **** critising the lack of a spell chucker. Perhaps it would be as wel to check the glass in the greenhouse first.

Surely this is why we actually have a line to the throne. Let him lead by example. If IRAQ is good enough for everyone else then he should deploy. Unfortunately the media debate is only heightening the threat to the rest of his unit.
Just as an aside and not wishing to bring in any form of debate about The Crusades. Wasn't Richard the Lionheart the last Royal to deploy into this theatre during operations and look at him, he was at the top of the line!!

Off Thread
 

Oops for a moment I thought this thread was about Prince Harry and his deployment to Iraq!!

You still haven't finished. You missed another word. This time it is "my" which should go before posts. I bet you wish you hadn't mentioned spell checkers now. Look I have even used red.

brandnew. I do, of course, see your point on conflicting programme immediacy and what look like money sponges. That would be a whole new Thread on user requirements, procurement and contract management.

The argument about the Prince's presence putting others at risk is using the same psychology as the passive smoking and 4 x 4s hurt children lobbies. As I said before, why not stop binding about it and turn it to an advantage?

Another point that we should consider is that if it's deemed too dangerous and he doesn't go, Johnny RH has scored another instant victory. Where's our national backbone disappearing to. We can't all become MPs or health and safety officials can we?

Brandnew
I agree with your statements concerning Harry.

Pleased be advised that nobody wishes to check your spelling, it was you that detracted from a sensible argument in the first place by offering someone else a spell checker, which is ok if you do it yourself, but is a bit arsey if you don't, which you don't. I don't which is why i don't offer spell checkers.

I ask this very much as a layman but, with a bit of foresight, would it not have been better to have trained him for a less personal role in Afghanistan?

It appears to me that the fighting there is on a much bigger scale where the Taliban would be unlikely to know who they were fighting and his presence would make little difference to them or his fellow soldiers. If he is admirably determined to do his bit, this could be the answer.

Pulse, it doesn't matter what he's trained as, or really where he goes. The fact that he wants to go and do his bit for his country is very admirable. My point, or complaint, is why the media circus? If you or I went out there they wouldn't care, in fact, they only seem to care when deaths give them a front page story (for a day or two). His deployment is in most of tomorrows papers (Sat 28 Apr) instead of worthy stories into the Armed Forces and the problems that we are suffering. The continued speculation probably won't help us look good to the public either.

Let's follow the "increased risk to his mates" "reasoning" for a minute.

Yes, the baddies will try to "get Harry" extra hard because of who he is.

They will also want to try extra hard to "get" the sons/daughters of multi-millionares, bankers, oil executives, high-level politicians, Generals/Admirals... ad nauseum... if they learn they are there, and can get good pics to identify them with.

Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?

Are the only people we can send into the fighting "those who will not bring increased risk to their mates"?



That means that the poor & unknown are the only ones who will be allowed to fight our wars, and to die for their country.

Nice choice, isn't it?




Cut the crap... the bleeding-hearts have been screaming for the "sons of privelige" to be placed at risk of their parent's policies for decades, and now they complain when they get their wish granted?

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


The only ones in this situation who have my respect, or to whom I will pay any attention, are Cornet Wales and his mates. :D:D:D
Bravo Zulu to them all!

No just stop the newspapers from publishing the fact that they are there. Then of course somebody would scream about censorship.

I would express the same concern for any of our servicemen who are sent into battle without adequate protection. However, why this trained young officer should not be put in the same theatre of operations as his classmates escapes me. Why would he not lead his men into battle?

This administration cares nothing then if for their own vainglorious public perception. If one of ‘the celebs’ was killed in Tony’s War, what would the Daily Hatemail say about them? And what if he came back with a meritorious war-record? What kind of message will that send to the socially re-engineered fluffy pink Republic of Blairistan? A warmonger as heir to the throne?

This man must do his duty by his country, his grandmother, and his men. In fact if the Iranians insurgents want to target him, then lets get some Global Hawk coverage, follow the trail back, and send them some Green Granite.