Nimrods grounded rumour
 

Telegraph.co.uk today
 

Extract:

The RAF's ageing fleet of Nimrod reconnaissance aircraft was grounded last night after a crash in Afghanistan claimed the lives of all 14 service personnel on board in the worst single military loss of life in action since the Falklands conflict.

The remaining fleet of 15 aircraft operated by 20 crews was having emergency checks before being allowed to resume operational flights.

My apologies for any distress or upset, but the telegraph entry was dated today and with Tappers Dad asking about the rumour that this had occurred I assumed this was what he was asking about, apologies again :\

Nimrods grounded rumour
 

No I heard the rumour today 22nd Febuary 2007 from someone who has many friends at the Kinloss Base.

Whilst realising what a sensitive matter this is, This is a public forum who ANYBODY can read and I dont think the operational capabilities of our Air Force should be discussed here. Mods please note.
DS

And pray tell just what operational carabilities of todays air farce are you referring to? This is a rumour board and Tappers Dad was asking about a rumour to see if it is confirmed. :confused:

Corrosion? Definately not.

It's a lack of teapot spares, not enough to go around apparently......

Careful of the "humorous" insensitivities on this thread lads.

The thread was started by Tappers Dad, and if indeed he is Tappers (one of the crew on the ill-fated Nimrod) Dad, then he has a genuine heart felt reason to ask a serious question.

Sir

If you are Ben's dad, I would like to say he was one of the nicest students I had the pleasure of teaching - I remember his graduation day well.

Regards

M7

Only a rumour - but I heard from a friend of a friend they've been grounded because of another weapons bay fuel leak

Only a rumour though!

M7 - Tapper's Dad's first post on this site was, IIRC, a 'thank you' for the condolences expressed on the appropriate thread regarding the loss of his son.

Thanks Archimajig, I'm now aware of that.

M7

Noted and rejected. You're about 10 years too late.

Scroggs

Grounded?
 

"Grounded" is a loose term really........

Also could read:
Just happen not to be flying while we decide what's wrong (as we can't admit to there being a serious problem), then decide whether we can bodge something together to feasibly get them in the air whilst not have (too many) people believe that they should have been consigned to scrap a long time ago.

Oh, and who's door to lay it on should we have gotten the bodge wrong. :\

Now on BBC News

"All Nimrod MR2 aircraft grounded for safety reasons, MoD says. More soon."

This is now being mentioned on the BBC News web site on the LATEST banner. More news soon....

(Two posts at exactly the same time)

Sky now showing it and no surprise the lead story was accompanied by footage of a J model herc landing............journo's:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6390737.stm

All UK military Nimrod MR2 aircraft have been grounded as a precautionary measure after a routine safety check uncovered problems with a fuel pipe.
The decision was taken in the last 48 hours after checks on one aircraft, the Ministry of Defence has said.

The fleet was grounded while the issue is investigated but some of the aircraft have already been cleared.

The MoD said the decision should not pre-judge an inquiry into a crash in Afghanistan in September.

I was right
 

I was right then they have been grounded. 6months after my son and 13 others were killed they are still finding problems with fuel pipes. I pray for all those flying these aircraft but you guys must fight your corner as well.The MOd needs to spend money now and fix these problems

Heros all
 

Let’s hope that the Groundies fix the snag soon and let the Mighty Hunter free to patrol. My thoughts to ISK folk tonight, new, old and past, chilling reminder it may seem – but remember a pipe is a pipe, it can be fixed, the old lady has many hours left on the clock – Heroes last forever! God Bless

Channel 5 said it was a 'dent in a fuel pipe' but did show footage of an MR2....

Why do we get to know about these things as an organisation through the media rather than our own internal network. I am on DII and there was no indication or release on it by the time I left work and it was only when I saw the Si O' clok news that I found out.

Tappers Dad, your continued concern for those of us in the service is most gratefully received. With regard to your comments about praying that the MOD will spend money to fix problems I am not willing to hold my breath. Our political masters will say everything tthey think will sound convincing in the media, but without any real care about those they are willing to commit to any whim they have. Why else would that idiot the(G)hoon extend the life of the VC10 fleet by another decade at least just before he left office when they are falling apart.

The care and concern shown by Tappers Dad is also shared by family of other members of the crew. I for one would like to see the money, respect and backing given to our forces to which they should, rightly, deserve. I don't ever want to know that another sister is going through what I am by losing my brother Steve in this way, just as no parent should as in the case of Tappers Dad.

I'm sorry I didn't think that any of the most unfortunate (poor expression but I can not find a better one at the moment) bereaved elatives were of a different opinion. Your loss was felt by all of us and our sympathies will be with you for a long time to come.

Laboratoryqueen, I fully agree that we deserve everything that you say; however, while the armed forces are just a means to their end (we keep their place at the global "big table") we never will be part of their grand plan - especially the unmentionable one form North of the Border (he must by now be referred to in the same manner as the Scottish Air Marshall!!!).

Let us see what next week brings.

A check revealed damage to the fuel pipe of at least one of the planes
 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm...name_page.html

The Scottish Daily Record says"A check revealed damage to the fuel pipe of at least one of the planes - five months after a Nimrod crashed in Afghanistan, killing 14 British servicemen. "

Five months later and they are still finding problems !!!! What is going on.
To Quote the old Edwin Starr record.

Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives

War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives

You might think a keen, enquiring mind (political or journalistic) would be asking questions about the ability of the Nimrod force to fulfil the array of military tasks (including SAR - not including pie and tea consumption) to which it is committed, despite:

a) Regular 'groundings'
b) the serviceability rate
c) the apparent haemorrhage of experienced air and ground crews

See PPrune threads various

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

Dent in a pipe ... how else were they to get it round the wiring?

this is blown way out of proportion, just because we lost one, the MOD is twitchy, and decide to release this
in the 'REAL' world be get this on a monthly basis [ i am a Tornado Techie BTW]

we get these problems at least once a month, if not more, where we recieve a PWI, of a problem found on a jet somewhere, and the aircraft are technically 'grounded' until the suspect area is checked. usually, this is done on the night shift, so any aircraft that pass, are free to fly the next morning, no probs. We often get these, 'dented' and 'chaffed' pipe checks.

i am sure the Rimnod is no different, and this check is very 'routine', but the MOD felt the need to release this due to the problems in the press the airframe has been having

les face it, we have lost less Rimnods that Tonkas, so why dont they report every Tornado Fault?

Why dont they report every Tornado Fault
 

Why, because no one tells the press.
Why because 14 good brave men have not been killed in one.
Why, because you haven't got people like me watching your backs.
People who lost loved ones in the Nimrod accident.
People who are prepared to tell the press when they find a problem in the same area of fuel pipe that was responsible for the explosion that killed their son.
THATS WHY

UKMIL

Because one Nimrod out of a fleet of 20 odd (don't know the exact number) is about 5%. What would the loss of 5% of the Tornado fleet equate to in terms of numbers of aircarft ...?

The Tonka fleet has the option of a Martin Baker let down if there is a mechanical problem, there is a safety net, what can a Nimrod crew do....?

Because, unfair though it might be in terms of attracting more attention, the loss of a Nimrod results in a large loss of life. What would be the reaction if we lost a Tristar with 250 on board and it was considered that it may (and I stress may) be partly due to the age of the aircraft........?

Need I go on........

UKMIL

What a lot of tosh you speak, and I hope you retract your comments; they are unfounded, inaccurate and display a certain amount of total ignorance on youor part. There is absolutely no way on this earth to compare Nimrod with Tornado, other than they are bothe aircraft. As others have said, a problem with the GR4, pull the yellow and black handle. A problem with Nimrod, tick with it a fight it. Oh what a fool you are.

If you think that Nimrod ops are not the 'real world' then you are sadly mistaken. On the other hand, perhaps you could point out what 'ops' the GR4fleet are embarked on at the moment.

Tappers Dad, I knew your son, a fine boy who I know you and your family are immensly proud of, and rightly so. I apologise on behalf of UKMil, who I can assure you DOES NOT represent the views and opinions of the vast majority of us.
Kind regards to you and your family, all of the boys are still very much in ou thoughts Sir.
TSM

Tappers Dad, well said.
ukmil, you really need to grow up!!

you seem to have taken my post out of context

firstly, let say, how can i 'grow up'?? I am probably old enough for some of you 'flyboys'to be my offspring. I have over 20 years Service, as an RAF technician, over which time i have worked the Rimnod, and many other frames, which do not have the bangseat.

The post I raised, was purley to show, that these problems are very much routing [not just in the Tonka world, but in every frame i have worked on in my career]. These checks, such as the fuel pipe incident happen evey week, on EVERY aircraft we have in our inventory, but NEVER get issued to the Press. The fact the MOD has chosen to do this, is merley to try and not 'cover up' any problems that might be 'leaked' to the press about the rimnod.

ukmil. Time to knock it off.
 

:* Over 20 years experience and your profile says you are aged 35. I would have thought that being in the RAF since you were 15 or younger might have taught you a few things about tact and when to apply it.

As for being old enough for us 'flyboys' to be your offspring; well this one is old enough to know bulls%&t when he reads it.

UKmil you state that:

The MOD initially refused to confirm or deny this latest safety incident, the MOD only issued a statement following pressure from relatives of those lost on XV230 and from a handfull of well informed journalists.

We all have the same goal, that is to prevent there from being another 14 grieving families, now you may think that is naive but as the oldest brother of Sgt. Ben 'Tapper' Knight lost on XV230 if I can do anything to prevent someone else feeling like I do then I will move heaven and earth to do it.

Just because these problems are a daily or weekly occurance it doesn't mean that they should be accepted. I am not in the military but I have worked in some very large central goverment departments with there fair share of problems that threatened lives and I know it is very difficult to do anything from the inside. If everyone involved in the Nimrod fleet was entirely happy with the safety of the plane then they why are so many voting with their feet and requesting transfers or ground tours?

And friday before last not 1 airframe was serviceable...out of how many??!??!?

I think its quite right that the presss were informed this time, and if they are being grounded as often as you are saying, then why are they still in service?! Years after the new Nimrod is due I might add!!

As the daughter to one of the crew members on board the Nimrod crash in Afghanistan, I long to find out exactly what went wrong on that fatefull day. And while they may only be rumours at the moment, any little bit of information that might help me understand is greatly appreciated. Im sure Tappers Dad will agree with me. We need answers!

Charlene Bell
Flt Sgt Gez Bells Daughter

Their hands are tied
 

I have witnessed first hand how hard all the Linies at Kinloss work to make the Nimrods as safe as possible. The pressure the whole Nimrod fleet is and has been under is causing experienced people to PVR because they are fed up with spending half the year in the Gulf with no answer to the problem of an aircraft that is just past its sell by date.

My concern is for all those who fly in the Nimrod as I can not believe they are as safe as they should be in light of the state of the air frame and the strain put on all those involved in working on it.

In Sept 2006 I felt it was horrifying that it would take the loss of 14 men to make the higher command sit up and take notice. The fact that they have not taken action is sickening.

Yes Charlene I agree with you but we don't just need answers we need the TRUTH !!
I think the everyone at Kinloss is doing their best with what is a vintage aircraft. Its the MOD and the Government that needs to spend more money and resourses in order to make the Nimrod fleet "Fit for Purpose".
The RAF//MOD are responsible for my son's death and the death of all those on board. They have a Duty of Care under the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) to ensure that the safety of the Crew, this overrides the Military needs of NATO.
If the Nimrods were a civil aircraft they would have been permenently grounded !!As no-one would want to fly in them.

THE FAMILIES OF CREW 3 120 SQUADRON ARE NOT GOING AWAY AND WILL NOT BE SILENCED UNTIL THE TRUTH IS KNOWN.

Interestingly, at a meeting to discuss engineering aspects of another ex-civil airliner now being used by the military, one of the delegates announced that he'd been told by others that the Nimrod AAR gallery uses single skinned pipes.....:eek:

Is that really true?

He said that "They'd considered it an acceptable risk for a military aircraft.....25 years ago when it was installed".

1995 Fire on board a Nimrod
 

http://www.agingaircraftconference.o...8b/134_doc.pdf

Page 17 of 41
This makes interesting reading about the 1995 Fire on board a Nimrod.Stating "The fire defeated all the design redundancies that were designed to protect the aricraft".