Does anyone remember my Dad? 'Vulcan Bomber'
 

Hi
I'm hoping to locate anyone who might remember my father - Alastair Bennett. He was Nav/Bomber Aimer (I think) for the Vulcan Bomber with IX Squadron circa 1963 through to 1968 when it unfortunately came down in Cottesmore. During the time he was flying I think he was based in Singapore and Cottesmore. The accident was in January during a routine test flight and consequently didn't involve his 'usual' crew. I would love to hear from anyone who may be able to help point me in the right direction to locate his old crew or anyone else who might happen to remember him.
Many thanks
Sarah

XM604 Down
 

I flew with Mike Gillett on Canberras in the Seventies but I don't know where he is now. You can try the 100 Sqn adjutant. Pete Tait stayed with the Vulcan way beyond what was sensible to get his rear crew out. He only survived because his deploying parachure was caught by power lines 35ft above the ground.

Incredible - but true. The overhead lines, on wooden poles, carried electrical power to a farm house. The only overheads for miles.

There's a 1964 picture of 604 at -

http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/crown_c...tering_orp.htm

Thank you all for suggestions and comments and clearly for taking the time to respond... it's truly amazing.

I will be following up all ideas put forward (probably as soon as I get to finish work tonight!!!)

In the meantime I look forward to Amazon dropping off my copy of Vulcan 607 in an attempt to understand a little more!

A Huge Big 'Thank you'

SarBen, why not pop over to either Bruntingthorpe or Wellesbourne and see a real, live Vulcan? Neither aerodrome is very far from Leicestershire. I'm sure if you got in touch with either organisation, they'd be prepared to show you where your Dad would have sat in the mighty beast.

Bruntingthorpe (XH558): http://www.tvoc.co.uk/

Wellesbourne (XM655): http://www.xm655.com/

And bear in mind that Vulcan 607 is about the Vulcan's part in the Falkland's war - to learn more about the Vulcan your Dad would have known (the Vulcan that was at the tip of Britain's nuclear deterrent spear), I'd recommend 'Bombers of the West' by Bill Gunston (it's beautifully written and not too laden down with detail, so is ideal for the lay reader, but can only be found second hand) and even the mammoth HMSO tome on RAF nuclear deterrent forces.

If you were an enthusiast, I'd probably recommend PPRuNer Tim McLelland's book on the Vulcan, or his V-Force tome (published under the name Tim Laming), but you might find Robert Jackson's Modern Combat Aircraft 11: V-Bombers to be a better start.

My own Vulcan book is still a work in progress - though it will feature an illustration of your Dad's old aircraft, and of a number of No.IX Squadron Vulcans that would be in his log book.

Sarah,

I knew Pete Tait and Mike Gillet but I cannot place your father even though I was a Nav Rad on the Sqn next door. (12(B)).

If you browse the Did You Fly Vulcans thread you will find some information about this crash. At the time I was at Waddington.

Your father did not 'serve' on Vulcans in Singapore in the then accepted sense of the word.

The Cottesmore Wing held the Far East reinforcement mission from 1964 through to about 1968 when the task was switched to the Waddington wing and all the aircraft were swopped over too. The Cottesmore wing then moved to Cyprus to become the Akrotiri Bomber Wing.

The Singapore task was for up to 24 Vulcans to deploy to RAF Tengah in Singapore where there were two purpose built squadron facilities. The crews were planned to fly either via Cyprus, Bahrein (overflying Turkey and Iran) thence to Gan and Singapore. Alternatively, in case the 'Eastabout' Route was not possible for pilitical reason there was also a 'Westabout' route via Canada, the USA, and Guam.

I do not know how often the mission was practised but I know of one eastabout from Cottesmore in Apr 65 with, if I recall correctly, 8 aircraft from 35 sqn. It is likely that IX would have done a detachment the following year. These exercises lasted some 4-6 weeks.

Jackson's "Avro Vulcan" was also a very good reference. Also, only available second hand now, I believe.

Sarah

to put some more flesh on Mike Jenvey's Innsworth suggestion, the current RAF Retired List shows:

MJ Gillett dob 26 Dec 40 retired as a flt lt GD (Aircrew) 3 Feb 80

and

PC Tait dob 3 Dec 42 retired as a flt lt GD (Aircrew) 3 Dec 80

who sound like yer men....

I was looking for more on 604 and came across this from one of the recovery team.

............... 604 cleared the end of the runway and went into a left hand turn to go around the circuit. Number two engine shaft broke so the compresser blades acting as a gaint saw went through the bomb bay cutting all the controls and hydraulics. The Vulcan crashed in the front yard of a local farm. When we went to recover the pieces........... as we where digging in the hole we found the entrance door of a B17 which had crashed in 1944. We also came across some other unidentified material. When we asked the farmer what he knew he told us the Vulcan was the fourth aircraft to crash in that spot.

:confused:

Sarah, Here's a route to the full Board of Inquiry from the National Archives. I haven't dug any deeper - as yet. Let us know how you get on
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

Also, Cow Close Farm, very bottom below, is crash site. Runway top centre.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8096273116.png

Happy Birthday for Sunday, Sarah. It looks as if this thread has already got you a rather nice birthday present. Good luck to you, and well done to the contributors. :D

XM604
 

Hi All

Thank you to every one who has read and contributed. I am so very, very grateful. Clearly I shall/have followed up all suggestions and comments.

It’s become clear to me these such events have a great importance and stay in the minds of all those who understand and care. Never forgotten, but live on in the hearts of us all.

And yes Zoom… you are totally right… this thread has honestly been the bestest ever birthday present I could ever have hoped for I've been totally overwhelmed by the response and knowledge.

Thank you all so very, very much
Sarah

Hello Sarah,
I too was a Nav Rad at Cottesmore at the time of your Dads death, though on 12B Sqn. I knew your dad quite well as we travelled into work together some times, I lived at Langham and he nearby. As I remember just before the accident he had had a car crash, not serious, hitting a cow!, but his car was badly damaged.
The accident was horrific, with as you have heard the two pilots getting out by the skin of their teeth. Mike Gillette moved over to our Squadron later as co-pilot.

Hope this helps a little.

I must say that this thread has been fascinating to read and I feel genuinely happy for the young lady who has found the information she was looking for.

This has been a great example of one of the benefits of the Military Forum. The many contributors to this forum and their knowledge/experiences have been pooled together to enable Sarah to answer the questions she had.

I wish you all the best with your continued research into your fathers history Sarah.

Regards to all,

TF

Sarah, Looks like you've had a win with SRAM! :ok: If you're interested in the details of what happened to your Dad's aircraft the No 2 engine was the cause. The main shaft broke up and a turbine disc went through the bomb bay - severing the control runs. Approximate point of failure shown below. No doubt the BoI papers will fill you in.

Your Dad's 'desk' was number 132.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/XM604.jpg

From Andy Leitch's site - http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...pas/navrad.jpg

It's a small world SRAM. I was in the Wheatsheaf last night (well most Friday nights for that matter).

YS

;)
Following the withdrawal from RAAF Butterworth of the 55/57 Sqn Victor (Bomber) aircraft detachments in 'Aug '65, 4 Vulcans were detached from RAF Cottesmore to RAF Tengah, Singapore as the Medium Bomber Force Detachment. From Aug '65 to Feb '66 9 Sqn aircrew had the committment. Feb '66 saw 35 Sqn take over the detachment until May '66 when it was 9 Sqns turn again. From Nov '65 to Feb '66 the Det Cdr was Sqn Ldr DBR Harris (9 Sqn) and from Feb '66 to May 66 it was Wg Cdr DA Arnott, DFC (OC 35 Sqn). Engineering support coming from the Engineering Wing, RAF Cottesmore. Aircrew detachments were for up to 3 months at any one time. Groundcrew tour lengths were 3 months with an option to complete further 3 months. During Dec '65 and Feb '66 the whole detachment redeployed to RAAF Darwin for exercises with the RAAF.
I was on the detachment at Tengah from Nov '65 to May '66.
It was a long time ago but I think the dates are correct.
So Sarah's Dad could have spent a few months in Singapore.
'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

Vulcan
 

Fascinating thread! Well done all! :)

old Bawtry hack

Thanks for that Phil, in the interests of completeness however, the V-bomber presence in 1964 was 10/15 Victors at Tengah and 55/57 Victors at Butterworth. The Victor detachment was replaced by a 4-ac Vulcan detachment from 12(B) Sqn of the RAF Coningsby Wing commanded by Wg Cdr Bob Tanner. Although the detachment deployed in early Sep 64 it was held at RAF Khormaksar for a week and then at RAF Gan for 2 weeks as HQ FEAF was concerned with the air threat and overloading of bases on the mainland. The Vulcan (4) and Victor (2) detachment at RAF Gan would have been a surprise to Indonesia if they had had to launch an attack from deep field in the West.

The Vulcans eventually arrived at Butterworth in Oct 64 and the Victors departed Tengah about the same time. The Vulcan detachment was suddenly withdrawn in early December 64 and not replaced until Apr 65. I had my ideas as to why we were withdrawn but I think it had to do with balance of payments at home rather than any pacifist sentiment by the new Labour Government. Research by Dr David Easter reveals that the Wilson Government was more concerned with maintaining a presence East of Suez than in Germany. The US was also concerned that we maintained our presence in the Far East as we could do things and go places that they could not.

;)
Thank you for that Pontious Navigator. It is all starting to come back to me now.
My how time flies.

Philrigger.



'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFi bar.'

I’ve heard from Sarah on the Board of Inquiry papers. She was pleased to see, from the sad affair, that the ‘sixteenth witness refers to my father as being exceptional’.

Of interest –

Allocation of Blame. The Board concluded that no blame attaches to any person or organisation.

And, even more incredible than I thought -

Utilisation of Escape Facilities. Captain. The aircraft had rolled to port through at least 90 degrees but not more than 120 degrees, with a nose down angle of between 15 and 20 degrees when the Captain ejected from an approximate height of 300 feet by pulling the face blind. The blind partially covered the right side of his face because he only used his right hand to pull the face screen firing handle. Due to the attitude of the aircraft and the low height at the time of ejection the parachute had only streamed when the pilot passed through high tension cables close to the scene of the accident. The canopy caught one cable, pulled that cable onto the next one and caused an electrical short. This fused the nylon panels together which acted as a brake, and the pilot was lowered to the ground. As his feet touched he undid the quick release box and walked away.

Sarah’s sent me ten pdf pages from the BoI. (About 4Meg) She has no objection to these being sent on as they may be of interest to ex-Mil crews. If you‘d like to PM me with a direct e-mail address I’ll send them. An assurance that you are ex (or current ) Mil crew would help, apart from the obvious ones of course.

Hi all,
I stumbled on this forum by complete chance and realised that there is information on here that is of great interest to me and my family. My uncle was Flight Lt. Stephen Sumpter who also died when XM604 crashed at Cottesmore. I have already contacted forget and he has provided some much appreciated information regarding the crash. I also see that there are people on here that may have known my uncle, I would very happy to hear from anyone that knew him or has any information or stories about him.
Thanks for your time
Matt Sumpter.

I don't think it is the same Pete Tait. I understood that he had only ever flown single seaters and had been originally posted to Spitfires, although they changed to jets before he got there.

Should either of you require more information, you could try contacting IX(B) Sqn's association,

http://www.association.9sqn.co.uk/

The secretary is Sqn Ldr Dicky James, a very friendly and approachable guy.
His contact details are on the site, he serves at RAF Marham.

Peter Tait

http://www.chirp.co.uk/main/Aviation.htm

Is this the same Peter Tait?

I have met him once or twice: a real gentleman.

Thanks all for the info, I will check it out.
Matt

Sarah, Matt Sumpter and others.

The IX Squadron Association Reunion will be held at RAF Marham, Norfolk on 8 September 2007. The Reunion attracts over 200 former aircrew and groundcrew members AND relatives who become members. Many aircraft that the great IX(B) Squadron have flown will be represented, including Wellington, Lancaster, Lincoln, Canberra, Vulcan and Tornado.


For more information about the Reunion and how to join, please see www.association.co.uk

IX "There's Always Bl**dy Something"

IX TABS, thanks for the info, although (I think) the link should be:

http://www.association.9sqn.co.uk/

Cheers

Sarah, I trained with your dad 'Al' Bennett
 

Hello Sarah,
I hope you still monitor this thread - I've only just seen your request and have registered so that I can respond.
Al and I joined up together in early 1962 at RAF South Cerney near Cirencester, where we did our officer training. We then went on to RAF Hullavington in Wiltshire for Basic Navigation Training followed by RAF Stradishall near Bury St Edmunds for Advanced Nav Training. We then moved to RAF Lindholm near Doncaster (both Hullavington and Lindholm are now prisons, I think!) for training on the Navigation and Bombing System - as a Navigator / Radar on V-bombers this is what your dad would operate.
After this we went our separate ways - Al to RAF Finningley (now Doncaster Robin Hood Airport) to 'convert' to Vulcans and then on to Cottesmore, and I to RAF Gaydon to fly Valiants and later Victors. By a quirk of fate I was visiting RAF Cottesmore for several weeks December 1967 to February 1968.

Also, there is a Vulcan B2 at the Winthorpe Aircraft Museum (just outside Newark, so shouldn't be too far from you) - by appointment it's possible to go into the cockpit.

Hope this add to the picture you are building up. I will have a look in my 'memories boxes' as it's just possible I might have some photos.
Haven't sussed how this system works yet, but if you think I can help any further just e-mail

V2BSNR,

Close but not quite true. Hullavington is an army unit and something to do with the trooping airhead. It is Stradishall that became the prison.

Flight report of the coroner's remarks
 

Coroner Alan Bond had this to say. The commonly held opinion at the time I believe.

Wow, I'm glad you found the forum, and what a lovely idea. I actually live quite close to Cottesmore so if its ok with you could we arrange to meet for lunch or something?
Thanks
Sarah

Sarah, These new posts prompted me to try and pin down precisely where 604 went in. By a stroke of luck I found the farmer of the next fields. Very helpful, he remembers it vividly and walked me through Goggle Earth to 52°41'36.70"N 0°40'5.34"W

In fact, the field still shows evidence.

Now all you, and sarag need is a 4 ship flight of IX Squadron Tornados, fingers four low level at 12.30 on the 30th January.

IX Squadron. Anyone there?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...as/xm604-1.jpg

Without the officially (BoI) documented account of Peter Tait this story would never be believed.

Utilisation of Escape Facilities. Captain. The aircraft had rolled to port through at least 90 degrees but not more than 120 degrees, with a nose down angle of between 15 and 20 degrees when the Captain ejected from an approximate height of 300 feet by pulling the face blind. The blind partially covered the right side of his face because he only used his right hand to pull the face screen firing handle. Due to the attitude of the aircraft and the low height at the time of ejection the parachute had only streamed when the pilot passed through high tension cables close to the scene of the accident. The canopy caught one cable, pulled that cable onto the next one and caused an electrical short. This fused the nylon panels together which acted as a brake, and the pilot was lowered to the ground. As his feet touched he undid the quick release box and walked away.

Thanks to Goggle Earth we can now see just what a miracle this was. Enlarged inset, below, shows the 3 phase overhead wires running along the hedge line. Rough track of the aircraft in green.

This has to be the most incredible ejection of all time, bar none.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/wires.jpg

I drive past that farm heading to the gym. How humbling to know that some brave men, so very similar to each of us here, died there.. as all I can think of is a swim and soak. I hope you both get a chance to meet, I'm sure that there will be a lot of thoughts with you and I'll certainly say a quiet hello for you.

Respectfully,

Al.

PS: With regards to Langham, what about those gypsies eh?!

By kind permission of IX(B) Sqn's association secretary and the current OC IX(B) Sqn I have been doing some research into this crash and the previously mentioned Aircrew. I have managed to find some photos of Flt Lt Bennett which I will post here in due course, once copies have been delivered to his daughter Sarah, the originator of this thread. In the course of my research I did discover that there is a memorial plaque mounted on the rear wall of the church at RAF Cottesmore. I have yet to discover a photo containing the other Airmen lost that day, but I have not given up looking as yet! This photo is from the Sqn archive and is crown copyright.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...uff/DPP_30.jpg

Flypast
 

Well, the news is that IX Sqn have indeed risen to the occasion and there will be a flypast of the site by a single Tornado at 12:30 on Wednesday 30 January. Clare will be present along with at least myself, Forget, and another Ppruner. The farmer is assisting us with getting to the right spot.

If anyone else is interested in turning up then please feel free to contact me at [email protected] . We're working on the final logistics but roughly speaking it will involve meeting nearby a short while ahead of time and putting on wellies to get to the site. I'll post detailed instructions here and by email.

Well done IX - good to see that remembrance can be all year round.