1ACC / RAF Kirton in Lindsey / RAF Scampton future
 

I heard a rumour yesterday that plans for RAF Kirton in Lindsey and RAF Scampton have changed again. Apparently, 1ACC will move down to Scampton next year and merge with the CRC, not 2 years after hundreds of thousands of pounds were spent in making Kirton in Lindsey fit for habitation again! I feel sorry for all those who have settled around Kirton in Lindsey either in FMQs or privately who will have to move yet again. What a waste of money, caused by short-sighted planning! Also terrible timing considering current commitments, does anyone know any more details or timescales?

I am shocked.

Shocked that you have only heard one rumour. :rolleyes:

Well, considering that 1 ACC, the majority of BLACKDOG and a sizeable chunk of Boulmer will be sharing the same tents for the next few years, it sort of makes sense. :eek:
That said, I don't think there are many places in the RAF right now where a long term plan survives more than a matter of months. :ugh:

Could someone tell me which unit 1ACC is please? :}

Try Google it really works

Thank you, most educational. I must bookmark that Google thing.

1st Battalion Army Catering Corps?:)

About fifteen miles each way commute, what is the problem?:confused:

Caenby Corner thats what.

If that is all you have to worry about.......

Try being at HW and having a 150 mile commute (albeit not daily). There are also good back roads which avoid Caenby Corner. Ever seen the B1398??? :8:8

Why would it matter to the people in the Kirton MQ if the Amateur Camping Club moved to Scampton as there can't be many quarters left at Scampton for them to move to, and as Gainsey said, the commute from Kirton to Scampton isn't exactly taxing (as long as you don't get stuck behind a tractor!:sad:)

Singlies wise, have you seen the state of the Scampton blocks! I'm thinking that Kirton is going to have blue (and green) suits living there for a while longer.

To clarify, my point was: wouldn't it have been better to make the decision to co-locate all at Scampton 2 years ago? This would have meant all the money spent on ops and domestic site at Kirton could have been spent on a permanent solution at Scampton.
If, as has been suggested, most of the accomodation remains at Kirton, there will be a need for numerous MT runs, an increase in HTD payments, not to mention no reduction in the guarding commitments - how can this be a logical step forward? The plan seems to have been badly thought out, the powers that be closed 2 split site stns (Neat and Buchan), but have succeeded in reopening 2 others (Scampton and Kirton) - well done to all involved!!
How long will it be before all involved end up at Leeming or back at Boulmer?!

Ill be glad to see tha back of Kirton. Landed there once and nearly got knocked over by the tumbleweed.... complete and utter waste of money....close it soon please

Kirton would appear to be a bit of a Nemisis for you Rotary boys! A friend of mine up at Scampton told me about an AAC chopper almost fiying into the 1ACC Radar during a night landing. The potential disaster was narrowly avoided thanks to the quick thinking of a technician on the ground who heard the sound of an approaching chopper, put down his PS2 controller & legged it outside. Upon seeing the distance between the radar & chopper decreasing at a rapid rate, he picked up his torch & illuminated the radar antenna. The AAC chappie then carried out an expeditious climb in his little Gazelle/Lynx & just missed said radar.

In fairness to the pilot, it seemed like a rather random place to site a radar!

AonP,
me thinks you must be new in those parts. If I may, a little recap as to how this situation arose.

Plan A, Scampton will become the new A6 hub. Scampton needed a bit of work doing to bring it up to spec, but as the Army had not so long ago left Kirton, so most of the estate was generally in better nic, the plan was to put a few units there until their permanent home was ready. Hence why some went direct to SCA if buildings were OK, others to KIL as a stop gap.

Then with the decission to put the A6 hub at Leeming, this left SCA in limbo, with units spread out over Lincolnshire. Add to this the drastic shortage of MQs in the area and you are left with the present situation. Funding for SCA was withdrawn to bring Leeming up to spec, so financially nothig in the pot to refurbish SCA and bring 1ACC down the A15.

As you and others have said, if money were available to refurbish enough real estate at SCA to move 1ACC down, and move out of the MQs at Hemswell, then over the medium term, the savings on MT, guarding etc etc pays for the work. But no money is available for the initial outlay, so no imediate prospect of co-location on one site.

As for rumours, where do you want to start?
SCA shuts tomorrow/next week/year/2050.
It stays open for next week/month/year/decade.
All units moved out
Other units move in
Units stay in their present locations
Units combine at KiL
Units combine at SCA
The Reds move out
The Reds stay
100 Sqn are coming
100 Sqn are not coming
The remake of the Dam Busters film will be based at Scampton, and will pay for the station refurbishment so 1 ACC can move.
The remake of the Dam Busters film may be based at Scampton, but all money will go to buying a new Merlin for Ops out East.
The remake of the Dam Busters film will all be done using CGI, so no money to the Rental Air Farce.
The Dam Busters film will not be remade.

And those are just this weeks rumours!
:ugh: :E

The dog's name will be Trigger.:suspect:

DTWH,

You make it sound like Plan A for SCA was a coherent and masterful plan, and that the later decision to put the A6 Hub at Leeming instead was merely consequential. And you also make it sound that it's purely as a result of this change in decision that units are now in limbo and scattered across Lincs ....
There were those that challenged the options of the ACSSU paper as it didn't compare like-with-like (eg Leeming good for mounting airfield v Wittering good for accomm v Scampton good for hangar space etc), and especially on the cost assumptions of regenerating SCA. But the short-sighted "solutioneering" approach prevailed and questions were pushed aside.
Based on the assumption that all would be well at SCA, other units were then put in the area in advance.
Why the change to Leeming? The real costs came to light, but only once the plan had begun. Whoops.
Had the plan been assembled properly with exact cost estimates in the first place, one might wonder whether SCA may ever have been on the books as an option? But don't stand in the way of a good solution ......

I feel for the ASACS guys. In the space of a few years they have all but stopped chasing Bears, turned their radars inwards, closed a plethora of sites (well almost as there are still a bunch of techies out there), re-invented themselves, dug-in at Scampton and Boulmer only to be told that Boulmer will close and that Scampton, at best, will be a one trick unit.

If I were one of them, I would buy a caravan and call myself Gyppo. :ugh:

I feel for the ASACS guys too,

especially the E3 Mates (ASACS by default) who spend years training to be pilots only to find themselves flying long, carefully balanced right hand turns over the skies of Teeside (no easy task when you take into consideration the mass movement of pies down the back playing havoc with CoG!);)

Seriously though, a little stability for the FC world would not go amiss.

Perfectly good airfield at Kirton; surely the RAF has aircraft to provide a shuttle service to Scampton.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha........................!

No, seriously, a SHUTTLE?

Good God, man, even CAS has difficulty getting a jet to fly him around.

Shuttle? 40 years ago, yes, in the days of the station hack, but TODAY - well, when we can't fund decent kit for the guys and gals on the front line, where do you think the money's coming from to pay for that [at say, £3000 per flying hour]?

Great idea, but it is the Royal Air Force after all - we don't have the money, machines or men to make life comfortable for anybody any more...

:\

Ah isn't it great um, i remember the days, sat in the r30, rep 1, boulmer - neat, tote, ahhh jumpers for goal posts, rush goalie. Guys come on the old system is not suitable for todays defence environment, your just experiencing the drag further down south where the guys at Wycombe don't have to travell so far and standard of hotel isn't well how can i say it ...rubbish. QRA scramble scarmble scramble Master controller to the bridge!!!!!:ok:

If I were one of them, I would buy a caravan and call myself Gyppo. :ugh:[/QUOTE]

LonMil
I did, and get called Pikey.

Still Nil Illigietimi Carborundum

Boulmer will eventually close
 

I think most people are gradually coming around to the realisation that Boulmer will close, it's not really a matter of if, just when. The problem is relocating the SFC and, given the problems at Scampton, I think that can be completely ruled out as a possible location, however attractive the idea might have origionally seemed. I actually feel really sorry for all the people who's lives have been completely disrupted by the miss-management of this re-location programme - as an example of bad planning and inept decisions, it really takes some beating. Whoever did the investment appraisal of the outlay necessary to re-open Scampton, should be named and shamed, it must rate as one of the worse examples of staff work ever produced - however, he/she has probably been promoted for their 'efforts'.

I think the SFC will have to eventually move to a 'PTC unit' where it can reside under the Training Group, like other similar organisations in the RAF - quite why it has been allowed to remain outside the Training Group for so long is a complete mystery. I know the ACACS people are 'digging in' at Boulmer and seem determined to hang on as long as possible, but eventually the message will sink in, so if I were you I would be casting my eyes around for a suitable piece of empty real estate on one of the 'PTC stations'. Better to jump, before you're pushed!

Proletarian

Proletarian.

Agree totally but the 'when' for Boulmer will, IMHO, be quite a while yet. The RAF is broke, period.

When the move does come though, don't be surprised if the end game is even more radical than people are suggesting at the moment.

Northumberland Today article
 

An interesting article regarding a recent audit of the whole Boulmer/Scampton/Kirton piece!
http://www.northumberlandtoday.co.uk...icleID=1880584
Mr Beith's campaign seems to be gaining support, I don't think most involved care what the decision is, so long as it provides some stability (beyond the current 2 years plans!).

SFC Re-location
 

Wyler,

Good to hear from you again!! As usual, you are correct in wondering when all this can eventually happen, as funding will be the key issue. Given the current drain on resources that the various OOA operations are having on the MOD budget, nobody should hold their breath. However, this issue will not go away and I only hope for everyone's sake that this time the re-location plan is thoroughly researched, correctly costed, adequately funded and that a sensible timescale is employed. We live in hope!

Proletarian - from the 'Sports Bar'

1 ACC = 1st red Arrows airfield Continuity Cell. Oh how cynical of me to think that all these units are being put there to justify 9/10 aircraft having an airfield all to themselves!

It will all change again in 5 years time when the whole area is covered in Controlled Airspace and the only areas with clear training are Scotland, St Mawgan, Chivenor and Brawdy......oh...they've been closed haven't they!

:E :E :E

Proletarian,

Check your PMs.

TR

AonP

That article is in several of the regional rags. I would not read too much into it. The Hon Member for the Lib Dems holds little sway in these matters. As Proletarian says, it is not 'if' but 'when'.

Proletarian.

The Sports Bar! And not forgetting 'Hooters' in Ottawa (Sp???). I think the next effort will be much better but I would not be at all surprised to see most of the 'Ops Spt' eggs in the one basket.............like good comedy, it's a question of timing!

Move the SFC to a PTC site? Hmmmmm. Isn't there soon going to be a vacated modern site near Gloucester. Doh!:ugh:

Alternatively, Strawberry Field.

Isn't it about time that the ASACs looked at joining/sharing training facilities with Air Traffic! Obviously there will be a few who will cry 'Heresy' but this may be the right time. Over the past few years, as airspace has become more congested/restricted and with the security situation there is a clearer need to work closer with both civil and mil ATC. Who knows it may even break down the Us and Them mentality.
Now how do we close Shawbury and move them up to Boulmer?:\

Great AUK i think you may find that there are many other aviation related activities at RAF Strawberry i.e flying training but hey i know what will be said now and i dont want to go there about who exists for whos purpose, a move of 9 and 12 has been considered time and time again i personally remember being at boulmer one moment and at a tower the next, albeit a long time ago (Type 84 sort of time) ICCS was a wonderful thing!!! I sincerely hope the best for everyone will prevaill in this whole relocation fiasco but as i and many have found there is no yellow brick road on the other side of the rainbow just another bunch of heatless, mindless, and spineless fools paid too much to make guys and girls lives , and that of thier families miserable. Best of luck to you all. Oh yes and if in doubt!!!Bang out and join another higher paid (air) Trade, it's more fun but more people tend to shoot at you.

Boulmer future decided - what about Scampton and Kirton in Lindsey?
 

Has anyone heard if when the rest of the decision will be made? Will it be a trip back up the A1 to obscurity for those living in ASACS Lincolnshire?

http://www.northumberlandgazette.co....ved.3659467.jp

Pardon my French, but I bloody hope not!

And to say we're "delighted" ... Me thinks they were the words of the Force Cdr, not those on the shop floor?!

So its Northumberland then! Does this mean that with no quarters anywhere that people posted north will have to take out mortgages with Northern Rock?

I wonder how much more investment there will be in the Government's Mafia Area. What a surprise.:ouch:

Apart from the fact that a HIRTA would have been issued - Guess the pilot didn't do his planning correctly then!



Bear

Complete thred drift but in relation to:

The last time I was a Kirton, the radar was at the Western edge of the old airfield, about a mile from the HLS! The HLS was towards the NE of the sports pitches behind my house (ie nowhere near the airfield).

STH

Sheckles........
 

Less expensive of the options. Scampton's buildings need help....big time.
Nice to see that the public viewing area has been completed there:rolleyes: