white poppy
 

Is anyone else a little perturbed by the hijacking of rememberance by the white poppy brigade?
I thought the poppy was an ecumenical, race, creed, belief free symbol devoid of any bias to enable us to support survivors and remember those who fell - not to show our support for war etc.
We really should let these tree-hugging conscience-ridden idoits how out of step their actions are.

After all, the only ever thing saved by pasificm is a conscience.

I couldn't agree more. Heard some ecclesiastical loon being interviewed by the doris on the Today programme this morning. I was so incensed by his spouting of utter bolleaux that I changed channels to avoid a heart attack. Not an attack on ecclesiastical types - I am a church-goer myself. However, I have always been firmly of the opinion that whilst the White Poppy brigade are perfectly entitled to their views, but they should not try to take over the RBL Poppy Appeal; they are two entirely separate causes and should be de-conflicted accordingly.

CI and CH,

Fully agree. Heard same Today interview.

If they want to make a point - fine. But do it on a different date, say 6 months away and protest against war. Just don't try and demean a sincere national period of reflection to those that have gone before - too soon.

What is saddens me most is that those who served and died were fighting in defence of the very free speech that allows them to publicly air their views. Many of those who died were conscientious objectors who carried the stretchers.

Its also sad to hear of any ecclesiastic being, what is in effect, disrespectful towards the dead and disabled. The Earl Haig fund is responsible for work that ought to be supported without reservation by the church.

It had a similar effect on me too. I hate having to drive when I'm angry. They still have this mind-set that the red poppy somehow glorifies war. He went on about Jesus encouraging us to turn the other cheek and his peaceful sacrifice on the Cross!

The Meek shall inherit the Earth (if that's OK with the rest of you, though).

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/umbrella/inspiration.htm

Flanders Poppies are red.

cynaclint,

“hijacking” Oh Come on The White Poppy has been around for over 70 years. It is nearly as old as the Red Poppy.


Blacksheep,

The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.

Why do you get so agitated by the White Poppy?

A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!

While we are on the subject of poppies, I notice that the inscription on the black centre of the poppy now reads 'Poppy Appeal' rather than 'Haig Fund'. Is this innocent modernisation or an effort by the RBL to distance itself from the PC lobby that has been quick to demean the efforts and achievements of Earl Haig? Am I holding on too tight?

The 'Haig Fund' wording has been gone for quite some time now. IIRC, the change came about because few people knew what the Haig Fund was, whereas just about everyone knew that the Poppy Appeal remembered/aided veterans.

So it was. But it has come to represent more than that in the intervening years.
I'm not agitated by the white poppy, annoyed perhaps, but not agitated - what I actually said is that it saddens me: saddens me that there are those who choose to turn an act of rememberance into a political protest against war. It is they who are the agitated.

The rest of us remember the sacrifices of those who paid the ultimate price and that too is a protest against war. Stand silent for two minutes on the 11th and think about it. My father weeps quietly when he remembers the fallen, for some of them fell beside him.The vast majority of those who fell were doing their duty. Please don't disparage their intentions; my father is pretty clear on why he volunteered for the navy in 1939.
Aged 16...

Really? Well, I never knew that. :ugh:

The Poppy Appeal and Remembrance Sunday, although started because of the First World War also encompasses the Second World War and subsequent wars/battles/conflicts.

Surely we don't have to give history lessons to point out the causes and effects of various wars.

Cheers

Whirls

Irrelevant, IMHO. The Poppy is about the individuals, soldiers, sailors and airmen, who paid the ultimate price in duty for this country, and those who were left behind. The reasons behind conflicts are a matter for politicians not servicemen. I note that no organization has ever seen fit to issue a poppy for politicians, but if they did I would suggest the colour brown.

Those who choose to wear a white poppy as some sort of trendy, 'stop the war' statement should have their white poppy shoved firmly up their arse. Likewise, the PC fluffists and communist councillors who seek to oppose Remembrance Day (because it is not 'inclusive', I have heard) need to have a look at history and realise that those who gave their lives in defence of our country include, men and women, all nationalities of the Empire, Commonwealth and beyond, all religions, all ethnic groups (apart from those damn Eskimos), the disabled, all age groups and, I dare say, homosexuals (heaven help us). You wouldn't get this much diversity at one of Cherie Blair's publicly funded Chequers dinner parties!

Yes, it is a terrific idea; and the monies raised from the sale of RED poppies goes towards supporting those in need as a result of service in HM armed forces, be they servicemen or dependents, that governments of all hues from at least 1914 either cannot or will not support. White poppies do not support this aim and could even detract from it. By all means have white poppies, but not at this time of year - and where do the proceeds from the white poppies go? I don't know but it is unlikely to go to deserving causes that have arisen from conflict. The red poppy is a non-political symbol of rememberance and not a glorification of war; the white poppy is a political symbol of pacifism and is aimed at denigrating all wars, just or not, and to push it at this time of detracts from the act of rememberance.

It doesn't matter what colour poppy you wear - Rememberance Day isn't about the politics of past or present wars, it's about the people involved. I've been fortunate enough to not lose any close friends or family, but coming from a military family, and serving myself, I take time to imagine what it must have been like for my Grand-pa to be in a trench on a Burmese hill, getting shot at. Or whether there's anyone thinking of his pals who didn't get to come home.
Let them wear whatever damn colour poppy they want, as long as it's for the right reasons - to say 'thanks' and to try and make sure that we try not to repeat the mistakes from our past.

OooOOoo! don't start me off! So gallant little Belgium telling some pointy hatted gimp that he couldn't stamp over their land to get at Johnny Frog who, in turn, was standing up against some other Teutonic sword waver settling a family insult, wasn't a stand for freedom then? I also don't recall "freedom of speech" featuring as a battle cry for the second lot.

Of course it wasn't-go read a history book or two about the origins of the squabble between a bunch of related monarchs that cost the lives of millions.

If you don't see the Second World War as a fight for democracy then you live in a VERY peculiar world!

The red poppy has no political or religious meaning and never should. when i wear the poppy it is also for all the Sikhs and Hindu's and other religions that fought for the commonwealth who paid the ultimate price.
and as far as i am concerned i was disgusted that the media even gave this t****r the air time.
but then again if it was not for the ones we are remembering then he may not have had the chance.

Gar,

Succinctly put. As someone that once said,

"Although I disagree intensely with what you say, I am prepared to die to defend your right to say it."

Don't remember who though, sorry.

Tonka,

WRT your point about the colour of the poppy worn not mattering, I think it does. The red ones are worn as an act of remembrance for those allied Servicemen and women killed in both Little Unpleasantnesses and other conflicts since, whereas wearers of the white variant do so to make a political point against war; whilst it may be a worthy cause, the white poppy should not be piggy-backed onto the RBL appeal as it causes exactly the friction we have read on this thread and detracts from the whole purpose of the Poppy Appeal.

CH

The people who fell believed they were.
The campaign is about them, not as support of government policy of the time. I find it appalling that people want to turn a traditional time of remembrance such as this into a political statement.

[QUOTE=pr00ne;2954595] The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.

I had the impression that GB entered WW1 in fulfilment of a defence pact with Belgium and WW2 to honour a Treaty with Poland. Both these countries were democracies (of a sort) at the time - as was the UK. In no way could Germany under either Kaiser Wilhelm or Adolph Hitler be described as "liberal democracies" . It is perfectly reasonable to describe both wars as being "in defence of freedom". The Hunnish hordes rampaged across Europe twice in a generation and were treated with great generosity by the Allies in 1945.

My dear old Mum lost both her brothers in France in 1915/16 and a fiancé in the RFC . The experience was deeply traumatic and she was most reluctant to talk about them. She visited her brothers' graves once in about 1922 and could never bring herself to do it again. As for the glorification of war, I was with my mother when I was aged 10 on 3 Sep 1939 and listened with her to Chamberlain's broadcast announcing our declaration of war on Germany. The tears were streaming down her face. If anyone had dared to question the value of her brothers' and fiancé's sacrifice (like that adenoidal little twerp on Radio 4 this am) she would have torn them limb from limb. And she was big and feisty enough to do it! :mad: