Very nicely put JAJ ! ;)

OAP

With Jurby, Cowden and Wainfleet all closed, the handful of Hawk T2s no longer conducting weapons training, what's left? Are Cape Wrath/Garvie Island, Tain, Donna Nook, Holbeach and Pembrey Sands the only AWRs these days?

Will the F-35B be doing much live range work - or relying on simulators?

So, perhaps 51 green snowflakes want it closed for development.
Ignore.

BEagle, I read somewhere that a lot of the F-35’s mission profiles are (currently) too sensitive to be flown outside of the sim! Or maybe that was written by the people who sell expensive sims....

Times change. The military no longer occupies a position in society where we can simply say "well, we were here first", especially about something like an AGWR. Society have a duty to minimise pollution and noise falls within that. If an area is growing and developing then it’s simply not acceptable to refuse to change, especially if there is an alternative. What is that alternative? Synthetic training? Move the range to somewhere really remote? Who knows but it must be looked at. If we were building a new range would we place it at Tain? Not even close.

Oh, and I'm not coming at this from a tree hugging perspective. As an ex-fj QWI I spent more than my fair share of time pounding the weapons pattern, Tain included and I appreciate their importance. However, times are tough for the military and will only get tougher. Some of the arguments will be played out in open court and the support of the public will be important. Let’s choose our battles carefully eh.

Will they get a vote on holding back the enemy, whoever it is, too

Oh I don't doubt you are right JAJ.

I'm just surprised the current set up exists - to me (and I might be wrong!)
it looks like evolution of decay- rather than a master plan!

And the retirement of Tornado will reduce the trade even more..

In Australia the majority of ranges are opened by Notam. Presumably the personnel do other jobs at the main bases in the periods between usage.
Rather than range time being available on tap is generally programmed in a couple of days slots every couple of months say.

Perhaps just a culture thing?

Given that this part of Easter Ross has been comprehensively pounded for many years, how long will it take to make the place safe and how much will it cost? :uhoh:

Used Tain from Lossie in the sixties. Shame to close it.

Just to confirm, that there are currently 100 or so personnel based at Lossie current taking part in/supporting active Operations, away from their families in the name of our countries??

Glad to see the locals are proud of this fact - I'm sure that any of those personnel reading this out there feel they are valued - you live in a different world :ugh: .

Firstly, training individuals to be able to conduct academic range work is vital, in sanitised airspace where all one needs to concentrate is getting used to the difficult discipline that is strafe for instance. This ability to train like this is invaluable, and cannot be understated!

England alternatives are there, yes, but transit times and fuel usage would lead to a large amount of training lost.

It saddens me when local people clearly do not give a :mad: about our military, and would happily see us moved on and be less prepared for when we are doing what we are doing over nasty parts of the world :(.

I've always felt more pride in being in the military when on Ex in the US; they've got it right. I would love to see Lossie shut, and the RAF move away, and see how that affects the Lossie/Elgin economies - and don't dare tell me it wouldn't :=

:D

Lossie, years ago.

F-111 crew (Lt Col and Major) up to recce Tain Range. Theirs was being de-bombed, or whatever.

I, being 'new boy', joed into being part of the hosting team.

After visits etc, we would meet up in the Mess for drinkies and dinner.

Brussel Sprouts on the menu.

Lt Col to me, after tasting one, "Say Taxydoooal, what are these?"

"Erm, rather like small cabbages, Colonel" says I

"Hmm, can we not bomb the Brussel Sprout fields instead" commented the Colonel.

Its 100 people and I doubt very much they are born and breed locals.

The whole area is very pro armed forces. I there are more than a few auld lanky drinkers in various pubs in the area who have that special look in there eyes. Then local neds keep well clear of them even when they are kicking on 80 for very good reason.

Last time I was in the area the TA were exercising on it at the weekend.

Current activity rates appeared to me to be well down on activity 10-15 years ago. Which I was most disappointed at because I was wanting to show the brats the bombing circuit in action.

If you include the run in areas which they come very low and fast through which is actually more shocking because you usually hear before you see 100 is an extremely small percentage of the people exposed to the range traffic.

Someone will be wanting the land and is stirring up all the tree huggers and other Korn eaters to make some noise in the hope they can get it.

Er, this happened over ELEVEN YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!

good spot!!!

So nothing came of it then.

Right enough 2006 there was loads of Yanks pissing about. They tended to go everywhere about 2000 ft and very fast making loads of noise.

The RAF were much much lower.

Think there was quite a bit of chinooks doing night exercises and light arms live fire with some mortars.

Actually, quite a lot judging by the number of times we've been there this year.

Once the Tornadoes are laid to rest next year, what's going to use the range?

Typhoons still use Tain range on a very regular basis for Close Air Support training with JTACs/FACs whilst working up for current Ops as well as occasional live strafing.

Mr Vice.