Neither will we, but we still do it!

One thing that struck me about ABW was the sheer frustration of alot of Mil guys who were working their nuts off trying to progress their projects, only to be held up by the CS - out the door by 1630 - "because we can!"

If you look closely enough you'll find a fair number have passed through Sandhurst, Cranwell and Dartmouth. Not all by any means but still a good number.

And not all cs are wasters any more than all mil guys are stars. I've been on both sides of the barrier and believe me, there are nitwits and stars in both camps, in pretty much equal proportions.

That's the difference between someone who has a life-style supported by a job he can resign from at a month's notice and someone with a way of life and career who can't go in less than a year or more.

Each chose their way of life so there's no point the cs moaning the mil guys are better paid any more than there's mileage the mil guys complaining the cs leave on time. Those who don't like the impact of the others' terms of service on their activities at work should swap sides.

Comparing a Civil Service post with a military post is fruitless. They are 2 completely different jobs, career paths etc etc. No X Factor for the Civilians. We get paid a shed load more than our civilian counterparts and quite rightly so.

"How many of these civvies have been to Sandhurst?"

Very few - and that was my point!

"Potentially then an additional £2200-£3200 pcm, or in other words £13.2K-£19.2K for a 6 month det (and btw this figures cover the Balkans theatre as well!). An additional premium is paid if an individual is required to work on a bank holiday whilst deployed. CS are also entitled to an Operational Deployment Grant to cover the purchase of suitable clothes, luggage and personal toiletries that ranges from £180 - £500 (tax free) depending on tour length. On the down side, CS are only entitled to the same OWP as servicemen"

The only extra fixed payment is the ODA - roughly £1500 - £1750pcm - don't know where you got the additional £500 from as that no longer exists. The OT varies - the flat rate is £1500pcm. The actuals rate varies depending on grade but is unlikely to be as high as £3200pcm unless you are B2 (Gp Capt equiv or above). The bank holiday premium is merely the standard OT as would be paid to any CS in the UK (and for that matter most workers - when I was a kid, Tesco used to pay me a bank holiday premium). The ODA grant covers the cost of getting desert kit, as CS are not entitled to any aspect of military clothing - you go to Chilwell and get respirator, body armour and helmet and thats about it. For some strange reason, the majority of CS don't own desert boots, maglites, light trousers, lots of polo shirts etc. We need to get kit in the same way as the forces - the difference is we have to buy it as under no circumstances are we allowed to be issued with any kit - even kit bags. But hey thats not the point, after all we can't let the fact lie that the CS might get up to £500 tax free to buy kit that the military are issued for free can we?

You don't live in Brum then!

In general, absolutely right.

Couldn't agree more VVCA, so why the system of equivalent ranks, when CS guys themselves agree that it is at the least inappropriate, and at times embarrassing? Presumably that is the intention of the scrupulous way in which a civilian is addressed as Colonel throughout a course when he keeps asking not to be! I see no problem if Mr X is placed in charge of a project, if he is the best qualified to be so, whatever his grade! The RAF certainly saw no problem in making me aircraft commander, the junior of the 3 officers, and the lowest paid of all 6 crew members! If it is merely a question of who is billeted where, then agree with your hosts the grades that go to the ORs, Sergeants' and Officers' Messes. What was an irritation in peacetime will fast become a running sore in war, if latter day Walter Mittys strut their stuff with assumed titles, while the rightful holders of those ranks do their duty in far off fields.

Ooh, look. A mild mannered CS Gd C2, on duty in a foreign field, receiving training on the Browning 50 cal.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...u/50calme5.jpg

Looks more like a Lt.Cdr. to me, but glad to know he's mild mannered with a fully loaded .50 MG! Certainly no Walter Mitty, that's for sure, well done Sir!

And a few fair years ago judging by the DPMs.

Yes, a uniformed C2. You will find more in RFAs FORT ROSALIE, FORT VICTORIA, FORT GEORGE and FORT AUSTIN.

Gallant and Honourable Ladies and Gentlemen all, subject to the articles and hazards of War! I salute you all! I recall RFA Wave Victor at Gan, under the protection of the RAF, and displaying words to that effect along its side! Reprisal, IIRC, for similar markings attributed to the RN emblazoned on the runway! The sins of the fathers.....! http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...cons/icon9.gif