U.S Flag ?
 

Not too sure if this has been asked before. . .
but i'm interested to know. . why do U.S troops wear there flag patch on there uniforms backwards ?

:confused:

Answers (and some other stuff) to this fascinating question may be found here;

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243337

Hmm, depends on your definition of "backwards".

If worn on the left shoulder, the familiar layout is appropriate. If the same patch is applied to the right shoulder, it is backwards, as the stars canton would be to the rear.

If, alternatively, the correct patch has been produced for wear on the right shoulder, it may appear to be backwards, with the stars to the right, but is in fact correct.

Essentially, the idea is to signify advance, not retreat.

In the military, such things are taken appropriately seriously, but it is not uncommon to see tin-pot security uniforms with the "normal" flag on the right shoulder, and it looks ridiculous.

It can be worn on either shoulder but the stars always face the front, to replicate the way the flag hung when it was carried into battle on a staff.

The stars on the flag always face forwards (if sideways on) or to the left (front on).

Thanks for the info. . my interpretation was it was worn in facing the heart, thanks for the help.
JF

On the subject of national flags, I get really wound up when I see the Union Flag being carried upside down, usually by sportspersons who have just won a gold medal at an athletics meet (rare indeed) or by the baying morons in the crowd at international football matches. :ugh:

I am told that the US will wear the stars and stripes on their left arm on normal duties and peacekeeping, and only on the right arm during warfighting, peace enforcing ops.

Saw this in Albania in the late 90's when we had USAF units supporting the refugee ops with flag on left arm and then US army units that were war fighting with the flag on the right arm.

Dont know if its still the case?

I heard that it had something to do with the child labourers in the third World Country employed to make the badge, produced them the wrong way round?:}

I thought it was so you could identify them in the rear view mirror:E

Ah but then, how do the Canadians, Dutch, Swiss etc. show that they advance and not retreat?

clearly a smart choice in flag design. . the can advance and retreat at will!

hence the reason America & Australia only advance!

For those who used to be train spotters when young and happy

British Railways (in the days they used steam kettles to haul things around) used to have a proper crest (known by all and sundry as the "lion on a dartboard") and did the same thing, changing its orientation so that the lion faced forward when looked at from either side.

Someone pointed this out to the school of heralds (or whoever) and they told them it was wrong, any heraldic device only has one way of being displayed and hence British Railways had to change things around.

I would assume flags are also heraldic devices.

(Also, are people who paint the flag on planes as if they were just flags flying from a flagpole just stealth wanna-bes who think their plane is invisible ?)

Be sure to let the US Department of Defense know, won't you?

Surely it is up to each nation to decide the orientation and flag protocol for themselves, as their national history evolves. The flag of Sweden for example has been around since 1569, and predates the UK's flag, as the Kingdom was not United then.

The DoD maybe wrong but Americans, in general, as a nation respect their flag and country far more than we here in England do.

Our flag is our nation's identity, if only it were respected like some people respect their religion.

On backwards? Is that why it's U/S?

Our flag is a symbol of "Freedom" that was won by defeating an oppressive government. Thus, we honour that symbol as a way of remembering what this country is all about and understand what individual freedom means. Our Constitution limits the power of government and protects the individual against the excesses of oppressive government.

So it would seem The People ,in this country, see the flag as more than a mere national ensign.

Those who have fought under that banner have even a stronger affection for the flag than those who have not. Every Veteran is entitled to a flag covering their casket at their funeral and it is presented to the next-of-kin after being folded by the Honor Guard.

We buried a young Marine a few weeks back, killed in action in Iraq. Members of the VFW, American Legion, Marine Corps League, and others attended the funeral. Retired Marines were in their Dress Blues, Active Duty Marines were there in Dress Blues, others were wearing Red Blazers as members of the Marine Corp League, other Veterans wore their headgear.

The sight of the Flag, smell of cordite following the firing of the salute, and the sound of Taps made for a very emotional experience.

Yes, that Flag is special to us.

SASless: Indeed.

But the founding fathers retained one connection: the colo(u)rs of the flag derived directly from the red, white and blue of the Union flag of the United Kingdom.

Blood is thicker than water.

http://www.usflag.org/colors.html

What do the colors of the Flag mean?

Sentimental writers and orators sometimes ascribe meanings to the colors in the flag. The practice is erroneous, as are statements on this subject attributed to George Washington and other founders of the country.


From the book "Our Flag" published in 1989 by the House of Representatives...
"On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers' beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated: Also this from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives...
"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

The Grand Union Flag of 1775 seems to be the prototype.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j9...Union_Flag.jpg

A quote from Wikipedia on the subject:

At the time of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776, this was the most commonly flown flag, and was present at the naming of the country, "the United States of America," on September 9, 1776. The flag was the official flag for the beginning of the American Revolution. The Grand Union Flag formed the basis of the Stars and Stripes, which would adopt stars for independent states instead of British colours for British colonies.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Flag Folding Ceremony
 

Flag Folding Ceremony

UNITED STATES FLAG STARS AND STRIPES FOLDING CEREMONY

We fold from the stripes toward the stars, for whereas the stripes represent the thirteen original colonies that founded our republic and they are now embodied in the fifty sovereign states represented by the stars so that the stars cover the stripes.

The first fold of our Flag is a symbol of life.

The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.

The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the Veteran departing our ranks who gave a portion of his (her) life for the defense of our country to attain peace throughout the world not to have been in vain and shall never be forgotten.

The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, for it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance.

The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of the immortal Stephen Decatur, “Our country, in dealing with other countries, may She always be right, but it is still our country, right or wrong.”

The sixth fold for this is where our hearts lie – and it is with our hearts that we pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through these same armed forces that we protect our country and our Flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.

The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the Valley of the Shadow of Death, that we might see the light of day, and this fold is made to honor Mother, for whom it flies on Mother’s Day.

The ninth fold is a tribute to our womanhood, for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the characters of men who have made this country great, have been molded.

The tenth fold is a tribute to Father, for he too has given of his sons for the defense of our country, since he was first born.

The eleventh fold, for in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, this represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies in their eyes the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.

The twelfth fold, for in the eyes of a Christian citizen, this represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies in their eyes God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

When the Flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, which reminds us of our national motto, “In God We Trust.” After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on an appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, and they, followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, have preserved for us the rights, privileges and freedom which we are enjoying today.

I thought it was a tax dispute

Far more than taxes
 

http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html


Read the full text... there are 28 grievances listed... only one of which has anything to do with taxes.

In case you did not read the text as linked....

We suggested the King and his men to sod off basically!

Why do they wear US flag backwards?
 

They don't. The photo was printed flipped horizontally.

Crossbleed,

As I recall the original population of that island called Oz have some complaints about the way they were treated as well.

At least in this country we treat their reservations as states and provide payments to them. In addition, most of the Indian Tribes have Casinos now where they continue to scalp the White Man but do so much more profitably and legally.

Did you trespassers in Oz do the same for your Aboriginal People?

:ugh: Yeah actually, we do almost precisely that. An erstwhile welfare state created on land nobody white ever wanted.
And now they're fleecing you with their nasty casinos??
Where do they get off??

Aboriginal law applies to many parts of the continent, and they have a great deal of autonomy over the running of this land. They don't turn it into Vegas though, I don't know why exactly. (no, they have television, so I've lied there)
The slaughter of the original inhabitants was very organised and in one state led to virtual extinction. But they were less practiced in the art of warfare compared to the North-American Indians, and this fact meant their enslavery (for want of a better word) was so comprehensive.
I deleted my original post on this topic so for those wondering what the hell is going on, SASless is replying to an invisible post.:O

The Yanks (affectionate term before anyone kicks off) are very proud of their flag, and there are a number of rules regarding it's use and disposal, which I discovered having bought one as a souvenir (strange habit, I know) when I visited the U.S., when a a small pamphlet fell out the packaging. Aside from the usual non-flying during hours of darkness that most countries observe, I beleive it should also not be flown in the rain (cue digs about the colours running) and should only be disposed of by burning (and my memory is a little shaky, but I think it was recommended that it be done by a Veterans group? I'm sure SASless can clarify). Anyway, back to the point of the thread, when hung horizontally (say over a podium at a sports event) most countries just turn their flag 1/4 turn clockwise, but the U.S. flag is turned and reversed, so that the stars remain in the left hand upper.
*Geek mode to 'OFF'*:8

Left,Hand,Upper.
Check , roger, and Got It.
WHY??

Crossroad,

As to the "why"....beyond it being the specified display in that manner...I have no clue as to why. Over the years I have always found that particular situation a bit confusing. I will keep looking for the pukka gen on that.

As to retiring a flag....burning in a reverent and dignified manner is the approved method. Veterans groups, fraternal orders like the Elks and such, Boy Scout and Girl Scout groups often times offer this service.

My American Legion post maintains a "Flag Drop" for public use and periodically we will have a Flag Retirement Ceremony and retire the flags left there. It is not unusual to visit Schools and other Youth Organizations and have the kids participate in the ceremony.

Here's a link that has the rules regarding display and respect for the flag.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#1

SASLess,

I have a great affection for things American - especially the gorgeous Californian girl I rescued from all those palm trees and married. I like the reverence your flag is held in, I wish we Brits could show more respect and awe for our flag and hence our nation. I dislike the sneering attitude shown by many here towards displays of patriotism. I for one am proud of what the UK stands for and has done in defence of freedom around the world. I'm also mighty glad we choose to stand with the US on most issues.

Hi all
Next time you stroll out to a Ryanair 737, see how many of them are apparently "flagged" in the Ivory Coast.I was always led to believe that flags are painted on aircraft or vehicles or clothing as if a flagstaff was on the left, regardless of whether the carrying item was advancing or retreating., that is, either left or right side, it doesn't matter, it must be orientated correctly.The flag-folding-into-a-triangle thing has come into vogue over here for the burial of military deceased.I think it's a fashion statement more than an honorific.
regards
TDD

:D :D :D

(Especially the bit about Californians needing rescuing!)

Ah - so I guess a flag 'borrowed' from the Barksdale O-Club after GV and then hidden amongst the DetCo's golf bats, before being freed to grace the 35 Sqn Crew room doesn't really meet the requirements....

It was one of those posh ones too - all the gold frilly bits, a 2-piece flag pole with an eagle on the top and a ****king heavy base plate. Stan never did know - we'd promised to take his golf bats home and 'old glory' looked like an umbrella when stashed amongst them. The base plate was stowed in some anonymous cardboard box and labelled 'Calc 3 spares' or something similar.

When 35 folded, the flag was auctioned off at the final pi$$-up. I wonder where it ended up??

Not how things started out in 1812 --

"Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

-- which would indicate that the flag was indeed flown through the hours of darkness.

Beag's
From all the little adventures you post here I have to wonder if her majesty ever received a full days work out of you? How many stars were on the flag you lifted, only 48? I know its been a while for you since active duty.

Derek,

It is quite permissible for the flag to be flown at night....the only requirement is it must be properly illuminated.

As the fort was under bombardment by armed forces of a small nation with great ambition.....we felt it right and proper to keep it flying at the time.

Very topical. Now say 'thank you' Sasless.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/flag.jpg

Let my people go......
 

So, you abscond with a girl from California, a place with one of the best climates on the planet and hold her in Britain, not exactly known for its sunny clime.

And yet we, the US, are castigated for holding some nasty SOBs in Gitmo.

Have you no sense of decency, sir? None at all? :E

As I see it; other nations have stars and other ranks have stripes.

A very interesting thread.