Folks
Complain to Sky also.

I was listening to Sky earler on today, when a 'Defence Expert' said 'of course it is possible it could be a Lynx like the one that crashed earlier in the year etc etc' . Am i missing something? A defence expert, Lynx, 14 people?? So there was another lot of families put through the wringer. The news channels really call in some toss**s. (Sky also mentioned the Herc, Chinook options)

I imagine, but don't know for sure, that Nimrod also has versions in electronic intel gathering service.

I can also imagine that IF a stinger hit the engines, the way they are within the wing, might have had a huge impact on everything.
Unlike pod mounted engines. (This is NOT to be thought of as a slight on this design.)

Sorry, have to disagree with you again. The press should show restraint and consider the emotions of the families involved, not post clap trap and wheel out 'experts' to speculate what was going on.

Last year when I was out in Iraq the theatre was without contact to the UK for 6 days because the family of a killed solider where away on holiday and uncontactable and even though some folk moaned most understood why the procedures where in place.

Its about time either the embedded media were censored more throughly or altogether made non-embedded. They have the luxury of protection from many bad people who wouldn't care if they are press or not and would kill/kidnap them all the same, perhaps they should remember their privileged position.

So typical of todays media circus. Are there no real journalists/correspondents who report witrh care and compassion left. Typical sensationalism regardless of who it hurts. Scum all of them!!

As for the so called experts and retired military types - they are beyond contempt.:mad: :mad:

Complaint lodged with the BBC

BBC?

The ones that we on the Ark Royal switched off during GW'03 in preference for SkyTV following their biased reporting, outright lies and inability to roll out a defence specialist who could differentiate between an Aircraft Carrier and Type 42, and which was reported gleefully in the UK by rival media outlets. We were ordered to retune the receiver to BBC.

We also had the most jumped up piece of reporter scum on board who was seen, twice, in tears/foot stamping tantrums because he wasn't being taken seriously enough (as an ex-CBBC man....Matthew Price, what a cock!).

It's the media, do we expect anything else? If you want a more balanced view, use Fox TV!:O

Complaint lodged.

Did you read the abhorrent comments by Simon Petrovich from Cambridge.
See here:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...610&#paginator

THS, please see PM

Job done..Thanks CM

To BBC Complaints
 

Sir,

HM Armed Forces today suffered a devastating loss of life when an RAF Nimrod crashed in Afghanistan with the loss of 14 personnel. This is a difficult and upsetting time for any of us who have friends, family or colleagues serving with NATO in Afghanistan.

Your news outlets compounded that upset by recklessly speculating on which aircraft type might have crashed, going so far as to claim "reliable sources" had told you it was a Chinook, then a Hercules. Familes with personnel serving on both of those types will have been put through hell. As a reputable public-funded news organisation you have a responsibility to your audience; although speculation may be appropriate in some stories, it is plainly insensitive that you failed to wait for confirmation of the aircraft type. By this action you have brought misery and fear to hundreds of people who, it turns out, have not lost their loved ones at all.

It sickens me that the BBC has cheapened itself by confusing speculation with news. It is poor journalism and, worse, it has probably caused considerable distress to many people in the UK. I strongly urge you to make a public apology to those who have been upset by what amounts to idle rumour-mongering, or at least to acknowledge the fact that many of your viewers have been shocked by this outrageous performance.

Sincerely,

tablet_eraser

Complaint logged, I just really wish that it would make a difference. The media giant that the BBC is becoming (become??) seems to have lost all respect for the values that I SHOULD associate with Auntie... Honest and integrity are no longer even on the radar.:=

The BBC coverage and support for our troops has been awful. Natasha Kaplinski or whatever she is called, was incredibly biased during the last gulf war. However, on this occasion I go against the grain and put PART of the blame on the MOD. We all know that journos will speculate like this, putting families through hell. But on this occasion, the MOD put families through hell by delaying naming the type. Every family of every aircrew member would have been going out of their minds with worry. By holding back, SOMETIMES makes it as bad as speculation. If you dont want this to happen, then dont embed journos with our troops. If they had to look after themselves, they would face the wrath of the enemy and maybe back away a little. If things go public and speculation starts, maybe we should just front the information. Many odiham and lyneham families might have had a less stressful day, waiting for a knock at the door. Dont get me wrong, I hate them with a passion, real hate, but we know what they are like and should be prepared for this behaviour. Sorry if I upset people, but democracy and all that.....:(

The MOD still cannot get it right.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...fghanistan.htm

Picture of 2 R1s.

What hope for us :(

As a serving Chinook crewman, you can just imagine what I have just said to BBC...

I must confess to feeling severe anguish for all those involved and my heart felt sympathies go out to all involved in this difficult time.

I also understand that the BBC/ Sky et al should not speculate and cause un-necessary angst for other RAF communities by alluding to un-known facts.

I can however see from the MoD point of view, that the naming on a/c type straight away, could have untold SY implications by alerting all and sundry to the crash site of a sensitive asset.

This still does not excuse the Media for speculating , but, as has been said before, we must not appear hypocritical by slating the very organizations that alerted us to the terrible news in the first place.

Secondly, remember the Op focus and the need for a certain amount of secrecy in the first instant?

I just wanted to say that I'm glad people are complaining to the BBC and other broadcasters on their reporting of this tragic accident, specifically regarding the unwarranted and insensitive speculation on the a/c type.

Speaking as someone who has bitten through 10 nails whilst waiting to hear if it was a Chinook or not I can only wish that I could be face to face to the person that first propounded this theory as I would like them to see just what terrible anxiety and stress this can cause.

My heart goes out to the families that are grieving tonight, and it's with mixed feelings that I count my blessings that I'm not one of them.

RIP all those brave servicemen, and sincere condolences to their families, friends and colleagues.

LDaS

I've added my complaint- if we all take a few moments to do it, maybe we can stop all of the undue heartache that must have been going on needlessly in the Herc and Chinny worlds.

My deepest condolences to the families involved. I hope that there is no booze left in the ISK bar this evening. Please raise one to them all- heroes to the end.

Mr and Mrs SMT.

Complaint lodged.

Can't help thinking 'An it's tommy this, an tommy that, an tommy go away,
but thank you Mr Atkins, when the band begins to play.'

Added my complaint too.
Bl**dy journos, they just don't care. Ruin some lives and then hop onto the next scoop.
They are as contemtable as politicians, I just wish I knew which was the lowest!

Doc C

I got off the phone to another brother of mine about an hour ago and luckily for us my half-brother was not flying tonight. Of course he knew all 12 RAF crewmembers and is in a pretty bad way at the mo, as I'm sure are many at Kinloss, not least the relations of those who have died.

Apparently the RAF had called within an hour of the accident to inform them he was ok.

I shall compile my thoughts and write a complaint tomorrow.

SORRY
 

OK JHC Command, Herc Fleet and of course Airship in charge of Kipper Fleet - you want to lead, then I trust that you will formally 'spool up' MoD Press Office to give one almighty talking to with all of the media to ensure that in future that families are not left hanging in suspended animation, their breaths held waiting for the Regional Casualty Officer, Padre or nominated representative to knock on the door.

As a generalisation the press/media did not have the full facts (for whatever reason) so they speculated to a degree that was professionally incompetent.

Now I wonder if the news channels and editors will have the strength of character to publicly (i.e. on air) apologise to those Service families that have been effected by todays extremely unprofessional reporting.

I hope that the extra ratings and/or advertising revenue makes them all feel that a job well done.

And after putting that one to bed (in my mind - and yes I have registered my dissatisfaction with the BBC - the news channel that I usually prefer to watch) I now return to the main purpose of my post:

To the families, wives, children,mums and dads, bothers and sisters, loved ones, friends and work colleagues - I am so very sorry and my thoughts are with you.

If there is any consolation the crews of the kipper fleet are doing a very real and worthwhile job in Afghanistan at the moment and I can personally say that I (as well as the AH boys) certainly owe alot of the provision ISTAR and SA to the Nimrod capability (a certain Op will forever stick in my mind!) which hopefully not only has protected other airborne types, but also the lads/lasses on the ground in the Platoon Houses and on the Ops.

I am so very sorry.

Condolences
 

In the past, following crew losses, someone has compiled the mesages of condolence on the thread and forwarded them to families. The thought behind this thread was to keep our comments about reporting away from the original thread. Could I ask that, if you include messages of condolence here, you copy that portion of your thoughts to the original thread.

More incompetence - from ITN this time. Take a look at the pic on this website:

http://www.itn.co.uk/news/world_7411...592080529.html

I am very annoyed and can't believe that both the MOD and the BBC websites are stupid enough to use the wrong photograph for their articles !!!!! Both are showing R1 aircraft not MR2's. It hardly fills you with confidence that the MOD can get their facts correct.


WTN (Ex 206)

Censorship?
 

I, like countless others, have been incensed over the thoughtless speculation by the media. Two people who should know better, Ex officers Col Tim Collins and S/L Tom Rounds, both added fuel to the speculative fire by waffling on (on TV) about which type of a/c might be involved. These two should know better. It seems they either don't know, or they don't care, about the pain their words cause!! If people with the experience and background such as these two gentlemen have know no better than to speculate on issues like this then what hope is there that the 'press' will ever realise the pain they cause? Complain to the media as much as you like guys...as I was once told by the editor of the Times...'It sells papers' and they don't care!!

It is in the nature of man to speculate (your civil colleagues do it all the time in R&N) however ill informed that speculation might be, and the news media is no exception. The news media is though, bye and large, responsive to peoples wishes, so had the MOD told the media that it was a Nimrod aircraft and then asked the media not to release that info until the next of kin had been informed, then the media would not have needed to speculate and would have just quoted the request. At least it would have been better for all concerned.

The Media
 

I am a civvie (but with many service connections) and follow Pprune avidly. The most recent loss in Afgahnistan has moved me to join and to make a post.

I too have lodged a complaint with the BBC for the unneccessary anguish caused to so many for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL.

As a very much "ex" kipper fleet I too have sent my complaint to the BBC.

Good point. I will try and forward it tomorrow. And any other MCO hounds here too please.

In fact that is what we were taught. Don't b*llsh*t, don't lie and don't evade.

The MoD yesterday in its initial briefings would not even confirm if this aircraft was rotary or fixed wing. As it is in the nature of the media to speculate this was not a particularly sensible thing to do.

Just saw the news conference from Kinloss. In spite of the media relentlessy trying to pin some sort of blame on the entire fleet, continually asking questions about serviceability and whether the fleet would be grounded, both the Stn Cdr and OC 120 Sqn staged a dignified, respectful and honest press conference.

Well done, Sirs, and good luck for the days ahead.

Once again, my thoughts and prayers are with my friends and colleagues at Kinloss.

Just to move the thread on a bit and you were able to turn back the clock how do you think the BBC should have handled the news?

Do you think they should have said nothing until the type of aircraft was known - bearing in mind that other news agencies would be reporting the story at the same time and, probably, in the same fashion as the BBC did..

I think if you look at Green Granite's post you will find the first part of the solution there.

The second part is to withdraw credentials from the media that don't play by the rules. Loss of official press releases would put them on the back foot and relying on 'public' transport would be a non-starter.

Yes i do think the BBC should have held back by saying they did not know what type of A/C was involved!!!, i also felt the news conference was handled Extremely well by the G/C & W/C.. You have my heartfelt support for the days ahead, i collect my paper based on how much is stated fact rather than Speculation, the time i have spare in life is used to glean knowledge, not wasted on Guesswork... I still feel that if the beeb held back then more people would respect their compassion rather than has happened

Totally concur.... but we can't have our cake and eat it can we....If we ban the press then how can we give a press conference?

We need the press more than they need us and it is beholdant on the MOD press Office to get the facts right before they issue the release.

Yes but i remember the days when it took two weeks for certain news to get back during the falklands campaign due to the MOD, nothing wrong with that in my eyes

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to all involved, the RAF aircrew, the RM and Army personnel, their colleagues, friends and families. May they Rest in Peace.

Reading the thread and feeling the same anger as expressed by others towards both the Media and the MOD, and whilst not wishing or attempting to hijack the thread for my own purposes, I feel I have to at last publicise my own experience with the MOD.

I am an ex-serviceman (12 yrs regular service) and in 2003 both my brother and sister-in-law were serving with the Royal Military Police in southern Iraq.

I recieved a telephone call from a somewhat anguished mother during the evening of the murder of the six RMP soldiers, which at that point I was unaware of, not having watched the news that day.

I was the nominated NOK so felt quite satisfied that my brother would not have been involved, however, needed confirmation, particularly for my mother's sake. I don't think I would have the same confidence in the MOD / BBC NOK and reporting chain these days.

I telephoned the MOD Assistance Help-Line and explained the circumstances. The person on the other end said he would check the details. He was gone for a considerable period of time and thinking this information WOULD be at the fingertips of every operator I became increasingly concerned at the delay. He eventually came back and in the most sombre of voices (akin to the visit from the funeral director) he said, "Mr X. I've checked the list and I have to inform you.......(A pause followed of probably no more than a second but what seemed like a lifetime and during which I went through the most gut wrenching turmoil I have ever experienced, without any fear of self contradiction).........that your brother is not on the list of casualties".

Following quick confirmation I went downstairs, feeling physically exhausted and sick, and the look on my face made my partner think the worst.

I telephoned my mother and used a little more tact than the MOD but was hastily reminded that in my somewhat stunned relief I had forgotten to ask about my sister-in-law and had to repeat the exercise, thankfully with a more understanding operator.

I would describe myself as quite pragmatic and not easily upset but this event had a significant effect on me - I still feel quite sick thinking about it now. What sort of effect would it have had on someone given to emotional fragility?

What sort of training do these people receive? Don't they understand what poeple must be going through when they telephone for this information?
Pregnant pauses for effect are really not appreciated and serve no purpose other than to put someone through mental hell, for however short a period.



2close

Where do they drag these people up from?

In this case The Daily Telegraph.

It was revealed last week that the government employ an excessive number of PR people across the board and costing a couple of £billion....some departments were lucky to get a couple of press releases a year from 20 plus staff...:confused:

Finally, the MOD news site and BBC have an MR2 as the picture attached to the story.