Career as a pilot!
 

Hi guys,

Ok i've got a few questions to ask so if you would take time out of your busy schedules it would be much appreciated!

I'm currently just completing my PPL and I know that what I want to do for a living is to fly! I'm also stuck in a pretty dead-end job so am looking at my options. Now one thing that strikes me is to join the RAF as a pilot.

Only problem is my qualifications are'nt up to scratch. Now I want to go back to college to polish up my GCSE's and get a couple of A-levels. I'm 19 so time is running out (cutout 23) but I beleive if you want something badly enough and put the work in anything is possible!

Question is will the fact that I had to go back to college to get my qualifications hold me back? Also if I join as a pilot how likely is it that I will become one?

Many thanks for reading this, any comments welcome!

Sainty

Future Piolt
 

In a nut shell going back to college will in no way hold you back or be held against you.

Unfortunatly the odds are always going to be against you in becomming an RAF Pilot. ie a shrinking air force, less aircraft equals less opportunities. Also still lots of young bright kids still out there still competing for those slots. Additionally selection tough, training long and tough.

That said still one of the best jobs in the world for a young single guy and if you dont try then you will probably always wonder.:ok:

Don't forget that the Royal Navy should (Gordon willing) be expanding their pilot force at a very fast rate in the next three years to gear up for the F-35. A dark blue suit will have the advantage of not being confused for RAC or ambulance staff, plus your accomodation will take you to all the best resorts on the way to the real fighting.

Fly Navy, eat Cr_b

What academic qualifications have you got? Not being nosy but essential for compitition wise on joining as military aircrew.

Do it, ASAP, or you'll spend your life wondering.

Bear in mind that the type of flying you'll be doing as a military pilot will not be like tootling around in your cessna. You'll work long hours, planning missions that you'll be so wrapped up in that the view out the window (in the aesthetic sense) is way down your list; you'll be looking for people trying to shoot you down or crash into you (ask a recently bed ridden turkish F-16 pilot) while looking for your target/LZ/friendlies/tanker etc.

Yes most of the people on this forum whinge about the job, I do too, but lets face it, if it was that bad we'd all leave. I talk-the-talk all the time but the pay is good and I haven't got enough hours to go to the airlines. Yet.

The truth is, we forget what its like to not be able to do the job and get blase about it. The every-day takes over; same-old same-old. Oh, hang on thats same old 250' 540kts (not for bombers!) over Wales, going supersonic, rolling inverted at 40 nose-up looking all the way up the coast, air combat, getting gunned by real fighters*. Who else can do that? Bizarrely, its more fun thinking back over it, than it was at the time- see first paragraph.

Thats the training though. Training to get sent so some A***-hole corner of the world to project foreign policy; then it's not so good- hence we all whinge.

None of us are conscripted and I know I'll be ready to leave when the time is up so don't listen to all the moaners here. Its probably because we don't have a "Professional Pilots Big Themselves And Their Jobs UP" Forum that you don't hear of all the good things that we should all sit back and think of.

Oh, and if you fail OASC, you could always FLY NAVY!

I'm going for a cigar now.

Ray

*(soz- gp2/3 mates insert your own fun trips)

As said above, you need to seriously consider whether you want to fly or fly as a pilot and an officer in the RAF.

Bear in mind that thousands of people apply every year to become a pilot. Competition is very fierce. You will need to work very hard to get in. It sounds as if your academics are not strong at the moment, so go and get the qualifications to the best of your ability - the maths and science subjects are favoured. There will be lots of applicants that are extremely qualified, so to maximise your chances, you'll have to show strengths in other areas too. Your motivation for joining will be examined, so you need to prove that you have wanted to fly in the RAF for a long time. If you are not already, think about working with Air Cadets - maybe as a CI. You need to maximise your exposure to the RAF. Also try to get involved with projects/expeditions/adventure training etc.

As for the question about the chances of becoming a pilot once you have joined. If you have been selected, then the board has placed a certain confidence (on your ability, motivation and work ethic) that you will achieve it. That said, I know a lot of old friends who ended up getting chopped or left of their own accord. More so than I imagined at the start of training.

Used to be the best fun you could have with your trousers on, dunno what it's like nowadays.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.

You'll be lucky to Join the RN as a Pilot....were absolutely toppers with them at the moment. So full of them that we are cross training pilots to be Observers.

Volunteer as an Observer and they'll bite yer hand off....

RN as a Pilot-absolutely toppers with them at the moment
 

rafloo - what utter manure! However concur that anyone would be lucky to join the nations's premier air farce.

Whats manure? The fact that the Lynx force is overborne with Pilots and are re-treading 3 of them to be Observers? Sorry my friend...its gospel.

The guys that are being re-treaded, is this post wings or after being chopped from 702? It's quite normal for people who fail pilot training to get offered observer at NARB, isn't this just the case with these people?

I'd also heard a recent rumour that Observers who cross over to Pilot and subsequently fail to achieve single seat recommends are going back to being Observer and not offered rotary.

The first group of pilots who are being re-treaded are very much post wings....over 3000 - 4000 hours type guys. One is a 21/2 and the others are Lts The next batch may be more junior. The RN is desperately short of Observers...somewhere in the region of 30-35% gapped. Critical shortness....which is why the extreme measures of retreading experienced pilots to be Observers is taking place.

rafloo - are you telling me that the NavSec agreed that 3 x 3000hr+ pilots would be allowed to change specialisation? (and more importantly the pilots agreed?!!!) Are these FTRS types hanging on in there or blokes still on CC/FTC?

Rafloo.
3000 4000 hrs on lynx makes the pilot about 45 yrs old.
Methinks you talk cr@p

Think the first chap to start training is older than that actually. The process has been given the go ahead from VL....just waiting for fleet to endorse it and its chocks away (so to speak)

They are all FTC guys. (Not sure the appointer would let a CC bloke go)

I didn't say they had 3000-4000 hours on Lynx.

Prey tell what nature of foul photos does the appointer hold over these pilots to coerce them to do something so peculiar?

I think (not sure) the plan is to populate the new 809 NAS....

The first "pilot" is destined to be the first "Sobs" of 809 - how wierd is that

I think my Universal translator has just packed in.

Back to the point
 

Just to get back to the point of the original thread, there's no reason why you shouldn't aim high Sainty, but you've got a massive uphill struggle ahead. Unfortunately for you, there are plenty of kids out there who are sh*t hot and brainy as anything who nailed their qualifications first time, and a lot of them would kill for the job. Basically you're going to be at a bit of a disadvantage because of your age and that you failed to reach the standards first time. But that by no means makes in unachievable.

If you decide to do it (and my in my limited experience I'd say the job is awesome) you'll really need to prove to the RAF or RN that they need you.

Noos

First of all do you want to be an officer or just a pilot? The air force and royal navy will consider you as an officer applicant first, therfore needing the 5 GCSEs and 2 A levels or equivalent before you even apply. Otherwise Have you thought about the AAC? There is an option of Sgt pilot (generally more flying than the officer equivalent, which you will also need the required potential officer qualifications) which you are eligable until the age of 32 (compared to the RAF equivalent of 23, RN 26 and AAC officer 29), which you can have with no qualifications, just a minimum of 3 years of service in any regiment of the army, which is probably a similar amount of time as re-sitting your exams. You will also avoid the sh*te involved in being an officer. Of course this is assuming fast jet flying is not on your agenda. This option also avoids the killing fields of OASC, AIB and RCB, where the subject of enjoying flying is the ultimate taboo! If you fancy the officer life though, the RN is probably the way to go, as they need good officers and pilots (note the order they are in) more than the air force, and there is no option of getting stuck on VC10's and Tristars (apologies to any pilots stuck on those two types who actually enjoy it)! Whatever you think 19 is still young, as the RAF is not the only option, i have friends who had no qualifications decide at a much later age that they want to be military pilots and worked hard to get where they are now.
Good luck

Mac

Royal Navy? Never really thought about that?

Are the entry requirements exactly the same? And the cut-off age 26? Are the RN looking for more pilots than the RAF??

Maccer82 why do you recommend the RN?

Many thanks

Sainty

The entry requirments of 5 GCSE's, including maths, english and a science and 2 A-levels of you choice are the same in all the forces. The medical requirements are slightly less stringent (eyesight and any history of hayfever etc.). And you have until your 26th birthday to be at Dartmouth.

Probably worth going for at the moment because a fair share of the 150 JSF will be headin the dark blues way (assuming FW is what you fancy). However be prepared to be a rotary pilot if you do apply, as it is mainly a rotary force. I have also heard someone in recruiting mention that they are 'desperate' for aircrew (pilots and observers). You only need to look at some of Si Click's recent posts on this forum to realise that.

Good luck.
Mac

Its 'points' that matter
 

Was told recently that academic requirement is measured on a 'points' system and not that high. Scale of points given for each grade at the A level subject taken. I understand you can get the points required by doing well after your first year A levels ie A/S level.
I enjoyed being a pilot in Both RAF And RN. Its the service life that is enjoyable not wether you sit or stand for the toast.

Does anyone know the reason why the age cutoff dates are so low for the RAF & RN? The cutoffs for Pilot aren't nearly as tight in the Australasian armed forces.

I'm just in the pilot grading phase with the RN. PM me with any questions, but don't be put off by any comments that suggest that high competition should stop you from applying. A guy on my course (pilot) has two D's at A-level, and a lot of my friends in the RAF (pilots) failed a year at university. Yes, competition's tough, but that's because it's a fantastic job - any fantastic job will involve beating a crowd. At 19 you've got oddles of time, just get on with it.

Good luck, it took me 3 attempts.

Fanois

A 26 Year old entrant will take on average 4 years to get front line - makes him a 30 year old rookie. Flying on operations is a young man's game, particularly single seat fast jet, and at 30 you aint that!!. Hence the not unrealistic age limits, IMHO.
Can't explain why the Aussies have a higher limit. Maybe they don't mind on older pilot :} or maybe they have more younger applicants and can afford to take the odd old fart. ;)
Getting back to the thread - go for it. Aim for the top, and even if you get part way there you are doing better than the rest.
PS - and by the top, I dont mean the Crabs ;)

I don't imagine you're wrong, considering you do this for a living, but I was put under the impression that all forces aircrew went through OASC. Is this not the case? (Only asking because he's now wondering if he'll pass the Navy height limits).

Apologies for drifting.

Ginger ;)

The Navy's equivalent of OASC is called AIB - Admiralty Interview Board. Basically, it's the same sort of thing but with a more nautical theme. Also - as far as I know - RAF applicants sit their aptitude tests during their OASC while RN applicants take them separately.

Ive just read this thread, and i saw someone say that the RN medical requirements are lower than the RAF ones. Whats is the RN's position on someone who had asthma?? :confused: Is it exactly the same as the RAF ; basically NO??

Regards

Whats your story wanabee?
I had it when i was 8 but never received any symptons or had an attack, i then went to a specialist 2 years ago who said that i dont have it but it is still down on my records so im now fighting to get that misdiagnosed. Im hoping for raf wso, again does anyone know the navy solution for me cos my afco didnt know what the navy requirements are regarding navy aircrew.

Hi,

Well i had diagonised at three (ish). Ive never had an attack or been held back in sports always kept up with people etc. I saw a specialist about 14months ago, who said i ddnt have any syptoms and im clear of any asthma although he could not comment on my previous history. (been off inhalers for 6-7yrs, but never needed those either, as i often lost or ddnt use them)

Before i went to a speicalist I spoke to RAF careers who gave a form to fill out, it went to OASC, but got a reply from them saying i was unfit for any aircrew jobs.

I have recently sat my CAA class one medical (a few months ago), and have no limitations on it. So with the RAF rejecting me i plan to go to a FTO and be an airline pilot next year.

Regards

Apologies that there are 4 comments/ questions responded to here - please find your relevant answers.

Firstly, I agree that at 19 you def have a LOT of time to get your academic quals in order to go for an Officer aircrew job so if you do really want it then go for it.

Secondly, The Navy does operate a different policy to the RAF. It's medical requirements are also less stringent but if you do have any 'defects'(sorry!) of a medical nature, each case is looked at on an individual basis. One of my oppo's was born with a heart defect which hasn't affected him for about 24 years (since he was 3), the RAF wouldn't take him, the Navy has....

Thirdly, Navy is (I believe) currently recruiting Aircrew, not Pilots and Observers. (Fanois, please correct me if this is wrong). So you apply for aircrew, go to AIB, join Dartmouth and then do both pilot and observer grading before being streamed one way or the other.

Lastly, both NZ and Aussie have do indeed have older cut-off ages for Pilot recruitment. From what I can gather from my time with the RNZAF/ Navy both countries are having such a hard time recruiting that they have simply had to widen the net.

Hope this helps....

What did you mean about a heart defect? i have a minor heart murmur but have found on other sites that as long as its minor i shoudnt have any problem, and also the specialist at my hospital also said life in the raf would be fine because its so minor.I then rang my AFCO who said that it doesnt automatically ban you from aircrew but it will be looked at.

Wow this thread has really opened my eyes!

First of all thanks to everyone's who took time to reply!

Right I have a few more questions!

Basically I have rang my local AFCO about joining the RAF as a pilot and with the qualifications I have at present and my age he said that it would be very hard for me to acheive but is still possible!

Now the Navy route sounds very interesting! The qualifications I have got unfortunately are;

1 GCSE C grade in English
6 GCSE D grades!! (so close!!)
No A Levels

Now I'm not a stupid person I just never enjoyed school! Now if I went back to college to get my GCSE's and A-levels (not sure exactly how long this takes) what would be my next steps in joining the Navy as a pilot?

anotherchopride?! you mentioned the navy is currently recruiting aircrew, not pilot's! If I joined the Navy as aircrew would I be able to train as a pilot later on?? Are the navy going to be recruiting pilots in the near future?

Thanks for taking time out to read my long post! And sorry for all the questions that may seem very obvious to you but I really dont know how navy recruitment works!

Thanks again and any replies welcome!

Sainty:)

I personally think you are wasting your time, even if you enhanced your grades a bit you would still have little chance, i got 7B's,1 C and 1 A (presently doing AS exams) and im starting to get worried if theyre good enough for the high level of compitition in raf aircrew. By reading your post it sounds like this is a phase your going through and not proper dedication. Ive been wanting RAF aircrew since i saw the red arrows at 10. I recommend you seriously think about the implications of aircrew life and also dont niavely think you going to be a pilot.

Sainty

Aircrew means pilot or observer - the Navy will select/stream according to its needs once training has commenced. Previously people joined already knowing whether they would train as a pilot or as an observer.

You need 140 UCAS points (3 x A-levels, equiv to 2 Ds and and an E at A2, or 3 Bs at AS, but check), minimum.

If you start in September 2006 you'll get A-level grades in August 2008. The RN currently accepts entrants under 26 on date of joining for officer aircrew, but remember that your application won't go far until you have grades, and could then take 6 months or more. If you are 19 as your profile says then you have time, but you need to do a shed-load of work, and be able to pass the aptitude as well as officer selection.

I'm not convinced that the RN's medical standards are lower, and it's possible that the aptitude standard is higher/more challenging, as you need a Pilot and an Observer pass, whereas in the past you only needed a pass for your chosen route. The RAF does not require both Pilot and Weapons Officer passes for its officer aircrew

Ok Jag3 thanks for the honest reply!

First of all I've wanted to be a pilot since the age of 3 when my parents used too take me to the end of RAF Wyton to watch the aircraft take-off! As soon as I was old enough I took my PPL and am now considering which path to take!

Secondly you are wrong about it being just a phase it's just I've only started looking in to becoming a pilot in the millitary! I've looked into joing the Raf as a pilot from about 15 but because someone once told me I would'nt have a cat in hell's cahnce because so many people apply so I dismissed the idea (stupidly)

Sainty43

airborne_artist thanks for the reply!

What sort of a-levels would I need to take??

Also what GCSE's would I need to get a place on an A-levels course??
(if you know that is)

Many thanks

Sainty

Sorry if you found it insulting its just your posts make you sound like you have absolutely no knowledge of the raf or navy.