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Originally Posted by Low average
(Post 11584792)
Sorry, I had no idea our carriers had been engaged in combat operations. Not_a_boffin, when was this? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 11584800)
SEE above. Fortis. Shader?
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The government press release linked above states they flew their missions from Akrotiri alongside Typhoons, presumably supported by Voyager tankers.
Remarkably similar to the missions being flown against the Houti. Regardless - the reason why a carrier isn’t going to the Gulf is the Queen Elizabeth, and it’s air wing, will be taking part in Exercise Steadfast Defender during February to March, which is a higher priority as the RAF can handle the missions required over Yemen. The RN has a problem, but it’s with a lack of support ships - not carriers. https://www.forces.net/nato/numbers-...rcise-cold-war https://www.naval-technology.com/new...fast-defender/ |
Originally Posted by Low average
(Post 11584803)
So did F35s fly off the Carrier and conduct strikes on Daesh? I can't seem to find anything clearly stating that?
Stealth jets fight Daesh in first combat missions from HMS Queen Elizabeth - Royal Navy Stealth jets of the renowned 617 Squadron RAF (The Dambusters) carried out operational sorties for the first time in support of Operation Shader and US Operation Inherent Resolve. Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said: “The ability to operate from the sea with the most advanced fighter jets ever created is a significant moment in our history, offering reassurance to our allies and demonstrating the UK’s formidable air power to our adversaries. “The Carrier Strike Group is a physical embodiment of Global Britain and a show of international military strength that will deter anyone who seeks to undermine global security.” For the task group, which has spent previous weeks in the Mediterranean working with NATO allies and partners, it marks a change of emphasis. From exercises and international engagements, it is now delivering its full might of naval and air power, putting the “strike” into Carrier Strike Group and contributing to the UK’s fight against Daesh... Oddly the multiple intercepts of Russian aircraft in the Mediterranean and activities against their submarines and surface forces were never mentioned on the MOD and RN websites, and neither was a hunt for a Chinese submarine. These things were picked up by the BBC and Sky, and featured in Chris Terrill's documentary series. Both carriers have been involved in NATO and JEF activities to constrain and deter. HMS Queen Elizabeth: HMS Queen Elizabeth returns to Portsmouth following Strike Group debut - 15 Oct 2020 The aircraft carrier has been training in the North Sea as part of Group Exercise 2020 as she prepares for her first operational deployment next year. Her time at sea, joined by Royal Navy warships, Royal Fleet Auxiliary support ships, F-35B Lightning jets, Fleet Air Arm helicopters and ships from the US Navy and Dutch Navy, saw the 65,000-tonne carrier achieve a number of ‘firsts’. British and American jets carried out strike missions from the carrier using live weapons for the first time, while newly-modernised support ship RFA Fort Victoria and HMS Kent undertook the Royal Navy’s first transfer of ammunition at sea in three years. GroupEx 2020 was followed by Exercise Joint Warrior, in which the Carrier Strike Group joined other NATO warships for a series of demanding scenarios across air, land and sea... Carrier Strike Group prepares for final test ahead of global deployment - 01 May 2021 Exercise Strike Warrior will involve more than 20 warships, three submarines and 150 aircraft from 11 nations and is a final test for the Carrier Strike Group ahead of its first operational deployment to the Mediterranean, Indian Ocean and Asia Pacific. The exercise, which will run for two weeks, will see the task group pitted against warships from NATO’s Standing Maritime Group 1 in waters off north-west Scotland to prove it is capable of undertaking high intensity operations against the most demanding adversaries... Italian ship joins Carrier Strike Group after NATO exercise in the Atlantic - 02 June 2021 HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group met up with allies in an exercise that saw 19 ships and more than 5,000 personnel come together. Ships and units from 11 countries joined up off the coast of Portugal for phase one of Exercise Steadfast Defender. The training saw the UK’s Carrier Strike Group rendezvous with ships from NATO Standing Maritime Groups One and Two for the large-scale defensive exercise designed to test the alliance’s ability to rapidly deploy forces to meet possible future threats... Britain’s flagship heads for the USA ahead of autumn on European operations - 07 Oct 2022 Britain’s flagship leaves Portsmouth today bound for the United States – and ahead of an autumn on operations and exercises in European waters. In the coming months, HMS Queen Elizabeth will be at the heart of a powerful task group made up of thousands of sailors, up to ten ships, F-35B Lightning jets, helicopter squadrons and Royal Marines Commandos which will operate across Europe this autumn. But the aircraft carrier will first deploy to the east coast of the United States to undertake parts of HMS Prince of Wales’ deployment – as her sister ship undergoes repairs. HMS Queen Elizabeth’s Commanding Officer, Captain Ian Feasey, said: “After a period of maintenance it is fantastic for the Fleet Flagship to be underway again to conduct operational activity with allies and partners.” The Royal Navy task force will work closely with allies and partners across Europe – from the Baltic all the way south to the Balkans and Black Sea region – over the coming months... HMS Queen Elizabeth heads on F-35 jet exercises in northern European waters - 10 Nov 22 Royal Navy flagship HMS Queen Elizabeth left Portsmouth today bound for operations in northern European waters with F-35 Lightning jets. The aircraft carrier recently returned from the United States where she hosted a high-profile security conference between the UK and US in New York. Following a pause in Portsmouth, HMS Queen Elizabeth has now sailed for the next phase of her autumn programme, which will see her lead a powerful Carrier Strike Group of warships, helicopters and F35B stealth jets on Operation Achillean. Commodore John Voyce, Portsmouth’s Naval Base Commander, said: “We wish HMS Queen Elizabeth and all the Carrier Strike Group the best of luck on their upcoming deployment. All at Portsmouth’s Naval Base are proud to support the Royal Navy’s flagship and prepare her for Operation Achillean. We look forward to welcoming her home when it is complete.” The Carrier Strike Group will work closely with NATO and Joint Expeditionary Force allies as the UK underscores its commitment to safeguarding European security... Five carriers deployed around Europe – including HMS Queen Elizabeth – demonstrates NATO unity and resolve - 18 Nov 22 Five Allied aircraft carriers – including Britain’s flagship – are currently operating in Atlantic and Mediterranean waters in a demonstration of NATO unity. From the cold grey expanses of the North Atlantic and northern waters to the warmer confines of the Adriatic and azure Mediterranean, five of the most powerful warships in the alliance – plus their supporting carrier strike groups – are deployed, training or exercising as part of their regularly scheduled activities. Although each nation’s forces are operating in support of their own mission objectives, the advanced cooperation is part of a demonstration of NATO unity and the collective defence of the Alliance. The five carriers are • HMS Queen Elizabeth – currently in the North Sea ahead of NATO/Joint Expeditionary Force exercises/training in northern European waters • USS George H W Bush – on operations in the Adriatic • USS Gerald R Ford – at anchor in Stokes Bay, Gosport, on a short visit to Portsmouth • France’s FS Charles de Gaulle and Italy’s ITS Cavour – both in the Mediterranean... Royal Navy flagship sails to lead international Carrier Strike Group deployment - 09 Sept 23 Britain’s flagship HMS Queen Elizabeth sailed from Portsmouth to head north and lead a Carrier Strike Group deployment alongside ships from partner nations. The aircraft carrier, crewed by up to 900 sailors, with her F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters and Merlin and Wildcat helicopters will lead a mixed group of warships from various nations as they head to the Norwegian Sea and waters of northern Europe. The UK Carrier Strike Group deployment comes just days after HMS Prince of Wales departed Portsmouth for the United States, where she will undergo trials and operate a multitude of aircraft and drones. First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Ben Key, said: “It is great to see HMS Queen Elizabeth deploying once again to exercise and operate with our allies and partners, demonstrating our commitment to maintaining free and open use of the oceans for all. “With HMS Prince of Wales having deployed last week, both our aircraft carriers are at sea this autumn operating with F35-B Lightning, ensuring the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force remain ready to deliver the nation’s conventional strike capability.” Commodore James Blackmore, Commander of the Carrier Strike Group, added: “It is with much eagerness that the UK Carrier Strike Group is now assembling for deployed operations – the first time the UK CSG will be under my command. This autumn’s deployment showcases the UK’s capability to operate at range from the UK and demonstrates our continued commitment to North Atlantic security. “The Carrier Strike Group is an agile and highly capable force and we are excited to be heading to the North Sea and North Atlantic along with our International Partner Nations to reinforce security across the region...” UK flagship under NATO command for the first time - 09 November 23 The UK’s flagship is under NATO’s command for the first time as a powerful force capable of protecting the alliance’s frontiers assembles. Control of HMS Queen Elizabeth and the UK Carrier Strike Group (UKCSG) comprised of frigate HMS Kent, destroyer HMS Diamond, aircraft, including F-35B Lightning jets, Wildcat and Merlin helicopters, and support ships was transferred to NATO to create a potent task group able to operate across a vast area from the length and breadth of the Mediterranean and north to the Baltic Sea. Three aircraft carriers have been under NATO’s command – with the UKCSG deployed to the North Sea, the Italian ITS Cavour and Spanish ESP Juan Carlos in the Mediterranean – knitting together cutting-edge forces ready to shield every inch of the alliance’s airspace, waterways and territory. Warships from 21 nations are deployed on the activity– codenamed Neptune Strike – and are under the command and control of NATO’s Naval and Striking Support Forces, a battle staff under the Supreme Allied Commander Europe tasked with rapidly planning and executing operations wherever needed. Neptune Strike is ‘enhanced vigilance activity’ – basically showing that NATO remains as strong and relevant as ever and capable of the defensive commitments of the alliance... HMS Prince of Wales: UK’s newest aircraft carrier prepares for front-line operations - 06 Sept 2021 HMS Prince of Wales shifts up a few gears with her first period of concerted training with fifth-generation F-35 Lightning stealth fighters – and her first participation in the largest military exercise in the UK, Joint Warrior, off the Scottish coast. The first will pave the way for front-line carrier operations, the second will test her ability to work alongside other naval, Air Force and Army assets and broader task group operations. The carrier recently spent a few days at sea shaking off the cobwebs after a few weeks alongside following a busy spring of intensive training around the UK – including the first embarkation of F-35 Lightning stealth fighters – and a debut visit to Gibraltar. The five days at sea allowed for some flight deck training with a submarine-hunting Merlin helicopter from 814 Naval Air Squadron, and has helped trainee reservist officers experience life aboard, shadowing crew going about their business in every department from the bridge and forecastle to the galley. HMS Prince of Wales sailed on Sunday from Portsmouth for a more concerted spell at sea, during which she will embark four F-35Bs plus Merlin helicopters – the first time a fast-jet and helicopter air group has operated side-by-side from her deck and a “step change in complexity” for training the handlers who marshal the aircraft on the deck and to and from the hangar, the aviation team in Flying Control who direct all flying operations, and the engineering team which maintains the state-of-the-art aircraft... HMS Prince of Wales ready for global missions as international exercise ends off Scotland - 01 Oct 2021 The final act of the new carrier’s preparation for operations was participation in the largest military exercise hosted in the UK this autumn. Thousands of military personnel from a dozen nations took part in the combined UK/NATO exercise Joint Warrior/Dynamic Mariner which ended yesterday, testing their abilities individually and collectively to deal with global events. More than 20 warships and submarines, plus maritime patrol aircraft, helicopters and thousands of military personnel from a dozen nations are taking part in the fortnight long combined exercise. Ten Royal Navy vessels, plus elements of four Fleet Air Arm squadrons (troop carrying and submarine-hunting Merlins, Commando and anti-surface Wildcats and Hawk jets which have decamped from Cornwall to Scotland), Royal Marines of 3 Commando Brigade and the guns of their supporting artillery regiment, 29 Commando RA, plus senior staffs – around 2,000 men and women in all – represented the Senior Service... HMS Prince of Wales departs Portsmouth to lead NATO task force in the Arctic - 07 March 2022 The UK’s largest warship has left Portsmouth to lead a NATO task force to the Arctic for the biggest exercises in Norway for 30 years. Aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales deploys in her role as NATO’s command ship to Exercise Cold Response, the large-scale Norwegian-led exercises which will see 35,000 troops from 28 nations operate together in one of the world's harshest environments. Prince of Wales is responsible for leading NATO’s Maritime High Readiness Force – an international task group formed to deal with major global events – and deploys for the first time in that role to Cold Response. Aboard the carrier are the most senior sea-going staff in the Royal Navy – Commander UK Strike Force, headed by Rear Admiral Mike Utley, who will lead a sizeable task force as part of a galvanized NATO effort for peace and stability in Europe. Rear Admiral Utley said: “NATO is the cornerstone of the UK defence and our commitment to the alliance is absolute. “It is a privilege to be the UK Maritime Component Commander as we participate in this Norwegian-led exercise.” Prince of Wales will be at the head of a powerful maritime task force, which, alongside aircraft and land forces – including Royal Marines Commandos – will show how a unified multilateral force would defend Norway and Europe’s northern flank from a modern adversary... HMS Prince of Wales heads on Atlantic and Mediterranean mission - 26 May 2022 Britain’s biggest warship has left Portsmouth bound for exercises in the Atlantic and Mediterranean in her latest foray as NATO’s command ship. HMS Prince of Wales will complete two weeks of preparations off the UK’s South Coast before joining warships from across NATO for Spanish-led training and port visits to Spain and Portugal. The aircraft carrier is scheduled to visit Rota, on Spain’s west coast, before linking up with a multinational task group for Spain’s annual exercises, known as Flotex. It will involve a large contingent of Spanish ships and will include NATO task groups (Standing NATO Maritime Group 2 and Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group 2) which are responsible for the security and prosperity of the Mediterranean... If you accept that the carriers have utility other than dropping bombs on terrorists and proxies of outlaw states, you can see that they have been busy. Deterring Putin from invading any NATO state and constraining Russian interference with the free us of the sea is top of our priority list. Very shortly HMS Queen Elizabeth will deploy on Exercise Steadfast Defender 2024; NATO’s Steadfast Defender 2024: Unprecedented Military Exercise Signals Alliance Unity and Preparedness In a significant display of military prowess, NATO announced its intention to conduct STEADFAST DEFENDER 2024 in the coming months, the largest military exercise in Europe since the Cold War. With approximately 90,000 troops from all 31 NATO Allies, as well as partner Sweden, participating, the exercise is poised to test and refine NATO’s defence plans for reinforcing European defences against a near-peer adversary. The announcement by U.S. Army Gen. Christopher Cavoli, NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Operations and head of U.S. European Command, has garnered widespread attention. STEADFAST DEFENDER 2024 is designed to provide valuable insights for enhancing NATO’s defence plans, improving interoperability, efficiency, and resilience. This effort aims to demonstrate NATO’s commitment to collective defence and send a robust message about its readiness to protect all Allies in the face of emerging threats. The exercise is strategically located in several key European countries, including Finland, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. Events will take place from the end of January to May 31, 2024, divided into two parts. During the initial phase (End of January to mid-March), the focus will be on maritime reinforcement across the Atlantic and in the Arctic... As the heads of the Royal Navy, US Navy, Marine Nationale, and of course many others have noted, we are now back in an era of state versus state competition and conflict, with contested seas and maritime airspace. Just like in the Cold War, the carrier is vital for Sea Control - as discussed here. |
Front page headline in the Sunday Telegraph on the inability of the T45's to fire ship to shore missiles in the Red Sea
Usual "un named ex Naval Chief" quoted "A scandal et etc." https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8481dfa363.jpg |
IIRC, we have submarines that can launch cruise missiles.
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It’s not a general purpose unit an AD frigate with a limited missile load that it needs to go a friendly port to reload - and any SSMs would eat into even further.
Australia is having that argument now over their new Hunter class ASW frigates and whether to add a vertical launch cell. But that puts the weight up further towards 13K tons, and the price goes up and the numbers go down. You have to make up your mind if you wanted more dedicated small ships or even less general purpose ships - which can’t be everywhere at once - when you need the AD ships to guard the CTG… https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...ls-rough-seas/ |
Originally Posted by 57mm
(Post 11585354)
IIRC, we have submarines that can launch cruise missiles.
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Thanks WEBF, good to know that operational missions were flown from the Carrier in 2021.
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(WEBF - thanks for pointed out the correct dates for the CV launched F-35 ops - I had both stories open and copied from the wrong one - doh!)
The lack of an ASuW missile capability comes from governmental foot dragging over the replacement of Harpoon facing an ever diminishing stocks of viable missiles and short term support contracts. Diamond inherited Harpoon when the last T22s were decommission but they were removed not long ago in line with the 2023 OSD. NSM is clearly only going to be added to each vessel when the work fits in with her operational schedule. In any case an ASUW capability is a nice to have for a Class of vessel whose primary function is AAW, particularly in support of a CSG with other vessels and aircraft providing the main ASuW element as per the US CSG with which Diamond is currently operating. My understanding is Type 45 isn't scheduled to get FCASW (for which capability gap NSM is an interim fix, for FFs at least) until the 2030s, if at all - I have only seen it publically declared for T26 and Typhoon. Surely a Sylver compatible FCASW version would make more sense than retaining the canister launched NSM. But who knows given which ever defence spending phobic monkeys the British public puts in charge of the asylum next. |
there is zero leadership - no-one, but no-one is willing to tell the electorate that more money has to be spent on defence and they have to pay for it - either with higher taxes or cuts to benefits - including pensions etc
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11585396)
there is zero leadership - no-one, but no-one is willing to tell the electorate that more money has to be spent on defence and they have to pay for it - either with higher taxes or cuts to benefits - including pensions etc
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 11585448)
At least in the 1930s we had Churchill and a shed-full of decorated ex-officers [both main parties] in the Commons. We also had a Civil Service that did what it was ordered to do by democratically elected Governments. We also had honourable Ministers who knew when to resign.
Some active service officers and civil servants were awake however - the start of the RAF expansion scheme, building airfields and investment in radar etc all came long before WSC reentered the political fold at the start of the war. |
Originally Posted by SLXOwft
(Post 11585386)
The lack of an ASuW missile capability comes from governmental foot dragging over the replacement of Harpoon facing an ever diminishing stocks of viable missiles and short term support contracts. Diamond inherited Harpoon when the last T22s were decommission but they were removed not long ago in line with the 2023 OSD. NSM is clearly only going to be added to each vessel when the work fits in with her operational schedule. In any case an ASUW capability is a nice to have for a Class of vessel whose primary function is AAW, particularly in support of a CSG with other vessels and aircraft providing the main ASuW element as per the US CSG with which Diamond is currently operating.
My understanding is Type 45 isn't scheduled to get FCASW (for which capability gap NSM is an interim fix, for FFs at least) until the 2030s, if at all - I have only seen it publically declared for T26 and Typhoon. Surely a Sylver compatible FCASW version would make more sense than retaining the canister launched NSM. But who knows given which ever defence spending phobic monkeys the British public puts in charge of the asylum next. The anti-ship element (known as FASGW) was intended to provide a weapon to meet the criteria of the time - specifically tight RoE precluding pure radar-guidance without prior ID and a belief that sinking large ships was someone else's (Astute/Spearfish) problem. FASGW ended up being one of the longest procurement phases ever. Its only recently that people have realised we might have to sink major units again....... |
The Greek Minister of Defence, Nikos Dendias ,has officially announced that Greece plans to build seven Constellation-class frigates.
The Greek MoD said that "We are in discussions with the USA for joint design and production of Constellation-class frigates. Already, on 16/1/24, a relevant letter of acceptance from the U.S. Navy was received, acknowledging our interest in the design and co-production of seven new Constellation class frigates in Greek shipyards". |
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-from-the-u-s/
Greece Closer Than Ever To Procure LCS From The U.S. The recent letter from the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis regarding the allocation of four Freedom-class LCS (Littoral Combat Ships) to Greece, within the framework of a large-scale equipment package that includes a plethora of systems to enhance or modernize all branches of the Hellenic Armed Forces, confirms in its entirety the longstanding rumors of Greece’s interest in acquiring LCS. Numerous reports, statements from Greek public figures, defense journalists, and the leadership of the Hellenic Navy (HN) indicated that Greece was actively considering the acquisition of LCS following their retirement from the US Navy. Note that the US Navy plans to retire a large number of the vessels of the class years ahead of the expected end of their service lives, ships which are extremely young by any standards and cost billions to build…. The American vessels will be transferred via the Defense Security Cooperation Agency’s Office of International Acquisition’s Excess Defense Articles Program (EDA). Greece has already received four Island class cutters and it is about to receive three (3) Protector-class coastal patrol boats, via the same program. The purpose of the EDA program is to transfer excess defense equipment to foreign governments or international organizations for the modernization of their forces. Excess defense articles provided to partner nation at a reduced price (based on the condition of the equipment) or as a grant. Partner nations pay for packing, crating, handling, and transportation (PCH&T), as well as refurbishment if applicable… Contemplating the potential acquisition of the 3,500-ton LCS by Greece, a naval design universally labeled as “a beautiful disaster”, “a total mess”, “little crappy ship”, “a scandal” and comparable aliases, by naval officers, experts, politicians, analysts, and journalists worldwide, due to the ships’ limited combat utility, high running costs, and design problems, raises numerous questions: .
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Ukraine wants HMS Westminster and HMS Argyll…
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...nt-navy-2024-1 Ukrainian naval commander said his navy would gladly take charge of 2 British warships set to be retired The head of Ukraine's navy said he would gladly take charge of two British warships that will reportedly be retired this year as the UK does not have enough sailors to man them. A report in the UK's Telegraph newspaper earlier this month said that the Royal Navy is so short of sailors that it needs to decommission two warships to be able to staff its new class of frigates. The report added that the ships will be decommissioned later this year. Vice Adm. Oleksiy Neizhpapa told Sky News that Ukraine would gladly take the ships. "The Navy needs warships, because we understand that there is no navy without ships," he said, adding: "This is why, if such a decision is taken, concerning the possibility of handing over two frigates to the [Ukrainian] Navy, we will be very happy." Neizhpapa said Ukraine needs more ships and weapons to ensure a peaceful future for Ukraine. He also told Sky News said Ukraine needs ships to stop Russia's navy from being able to attack Ukraine, and to protect areas so that ships can access Ukrainian ports. "We must have the capabilities to make sure that Russia will give up forever the thought of even looking in Ukraine's direction, including at sea," he added…. |
Assuming such a wish was granted, getting the ships into a position to defend Ukrainian ports might be difficult during the current hostilities. Speaking of which, where did the mine hunters we gave the Ukrainians end up?
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https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/roya...on-on-frigate/
Royal Navy scrap plans to test laser weapon on frigate |
Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11586360)
Assuming such a wish was granted, getting the ships into a position to defend Ukrainian ports might be difficult during the current hostilities. Speaking of which, where did the mine hunters we gave the Ukrainians end up?
The Turkish statement is would appear to rule the T23s reaching Ukraine before the war is over, in the unlikely event of them being sold/donated to Ukraine. |
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