Continuing to delve into the latest World Naval Review in their review of the future of the USN CVN 's they point out that it costs as much to refuel a Ford as it would have cost to buy a QE - thus the proposal in Feb 2019 (rescinded) not to extend the life of the Harry S Truman and use the money elsewhere.

A QE could operate a small airwing and if equipped with drones could have a similar reach to a Ford - which has all the bells and whistles but operates aircraft of limited range

Thanks, and much respect. Certainly the deck of Invincible Class looks tiny compared to QE Class. I guess F-35B has better brakes too!

Due to the rising price of the F-35, MOD have been studying an alternative aircraft that's substantially more affordable & easily guarantees that a full compliment of aircraft can be carried aboard it's QE class carriers at all times. "Surge" capacity of the aircraft is expected to be around 678 airframes (captain has to stay onboard..) which is considerably better than the F-35's apparent 70. Other benefits over the F-35 are considerably better range, improved engine redundancy, lower surface / paint maintenance costs (plane & deck!), cheaper helmet, zero IP costs or consideration, ability to launch / recover directly from both hanger & head & even an integrated flag post!

It's rumoured that the alternative aircraft is being looked at favourably as it uses a similar adjustable four nozzle propulsion system to RN's proven but now retired SHAR aircraft.

Insiders have suggested that plans are already underway to replace 10 F-35's per carrier with the alternative aircraft & utilise the small change to procure an additional two Daring Class destroyers for additional carrier group protection.

The video is pretty good but I can't get it working..., so;

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8c0d795592.jpg

I suspect that will be quite a common sight in Portsmouth.

Very good!

ORAC, did you see the caption for that picture in The Times - 'HMS Queen Elizabeth, right, arrives at Portsmouth naval base before docking next to its identical sister ship, HMS Prince of Wales, for the first time. Each carrier can support 70 fighter aircraft'

You can see the F-35 special deck coating areas clearly in that shot

As their home port, yes from time to time. However both carriers are going to be busy in various roles. Not only did the WESTLANT 19 deployment involve normal RN/RAF Pilots operating F-35B from from the deck (and embarked USMC ones) from the deck of HMS Queen Elizabeth but a range of missions were rehearsed. Three embarked Merlin HM2s did ASW in conjunction with the towed array sonar equipped HMS Northumberland (which also had a Merlin) and proved the ability to do continuous ASW. The embarked Jungly HC4s and the embarked Royal Marines exercised their skills.

Both carriers are now in commission and flying the White Ensign.

Commissioning Day for HMS Prince of Wales

I love those jet exhaust carbon deposits on the deck of Queen Liz.

It brings the ship alive.

I feel sure the Indian Navy will have no problem filling the deck with 70 aircraft.

There are stories that a RAF/RN F-35B that stayed aboard QNLZ for repair/maintenance after WESTLANT 19 is to be launched for return to Marham whilst the ship is moored in Portsmouth. I've seen video of F-35's performing ski-jump take-offs from shore-based ramps, so do I take it that lack of wind over the deck is not a limiting factor?
https://www.forces.net/news/why-f-35...ueen-elizabeth

The required wind will be highly dependent on the AUM of the launching aircraft. Wind direction will also have to be in limits. It will all be set out in the ship operating limits which are the principal product of the First-of-Class Flying Trials (done last year I think).

The RN used to have Aircraft Lighters specifically for getting stranded (bent or U/S) aircraft ashore from carriers. One got turned into the Dummy Deck. I wonder where the others went?

N

Picked a bad week for the first in-harbour launch.....doubt it'll get away before Monday, given forecasts.

Lighters only really useful if you have a contiguous RNAY - which we don't anymore. If they wanted to take it by road, it'd be off the deck edge lift onto the quayside. But it won't.

It will be loud. Watched Hermes launch half a dozen SHAR in Portsmouth back in 82 and still remember it to this day.

Is VTO ruled out for the F-35? I've seen video of test aircraft doing it.

Not ruled out - justt be avaoided if possible I think.......... it's very inefficient but it might be used to say cross deck to something close

Massive 2 page hatchet job on the RN Carriers by Max Hastings in today's "Times"

If you're a supporter suggest you don't read it - it'll bring on a heart-attack.............................

Absolutely ! Another strike by the Army lobby to set the debate - TBH I am not a big fa of the carriers myself but this is clearly so one sided it hurts

You have to remember though that to a lot of people Hastings is a well respected and much read "expert" on all things military.