The above? Shooting aircraft down - best done by carrier based aircraft. (and F-35B has demonstrated the ability to cue ship based weapons). FODPlod mentioned an ASW frigate - well ideally you need ASW frigates (with towed array sonar) and ASW helicopters. Really you need multiple helicopters - based aboard a carrier. Multiple helicopters and a large flight deck might be useful for disaster relief/delivering aid or Search and Rescue. I also think a carrier plus aircraft might contribute a lot to defence engagement.

Does the employment of the CVS throughout the 90s/early 00s count as SFA?

For a large part of the 1990s, the main UK military effort was in Bosnia. A carrier was deployed continuously in the Adriatic for those years, with both Sea Harriers and Sea Kings doing all sorts of stuff, including enforcing the no fly zone over Bosnia, doing reece, and ground attack - the Sea Harrier participated in NATO air attacks against the Bosnian Serbs in 1995. On here, many have been dismissive of the small number of Sea Jets embarked, but turn a blind eye to the fact that the RAF contributions ashore had similar numbers of aircraft, but without the mobility or swing role. The embarked ASW and AEW Sea Kings also contributed to operations. Remember, Yugoslavia did have an air force and a navy, and NATO naval units were conducting Maritime Interdiction Operations to prevent arms smuggling, so keeping a handle on the surface picture was important.

In the late 90s carriers took part in various other activities, including helping police the no fly zone over Southern Iraq and at least a couple of stand offs with Saddam Hussein. I think that RAF Harrier GR7s were embarked for the first time during one of these crises, hence the inclusion of the Joint Force Harrier concept in the 1998 SDR. After Operation Desert Fox in December 1998, HMS Invincible was sent to the Arabian Gulf as (so the media said) there was a missile threat to the RAF base in Kuwait and the UK wanted another option. On her way back to the UK, Invincible got diverted to the Adriatic to participate in the Kosovo operations.

In 2000, the UK intervention in Sierra Leone involved HMS Illustrious with both types of Harrier embarked, a fact that may not have registered with the UK commander ashore, Brigadier David Richards (later a Knight, a General, and CDS - and now a Peer). The political and psychological messages sent by deploying large warships close to land should also be remembered, as well as constant presence, large numbers of helicopters, command and control facilities, medical facilities, and others. I seem to remember that Illustrious made a high speed dash across the Atlantic, but had to wait for the slower Ocean to catch up.

In 2001, Illustrious once again deployed with both Harrier types embarked, for the SAIF SARREA II exercise in Oman. Following the 9/11 attacks in the United States, she was retasked to act as a helicopter carrier (Ocean needed to return to the UK for maintenance) and disembarked her fixed wing aircraft (and grey Sea Kings?). No land based UK fast jets took part in the initial strikes against the Taliban either, although submarines did.

In 2003, Ark Royal acted as a LPH for the invasion of Iraq. The Iraqi air force was mostly dead and buried after over a decade of sanctions and a no fly zone, and Kuwaiti/Bahraini/Qatari airbases were used by the US/UK/Australians. Not that that stopped the US Navy from deploying FIVE carriers.

Since then, our main military involvement has been Iraq and Afghanistan. Apart from the lack of an opponent with an air force or navy, they both lack any length of coastline, Afghanistan being land locked, Iraq having only a tiny coastline - not that this prevents carrier based aircraft operating in both places.

In the last few years we have used Illustrious and Ocean in what might be regarded as carrier roles, such as using multiple helicopters to deliver aid in the wake of natural disaster in the Philippines in 2013, participating in a major NATO ASW exercise (with lots of embarked helicopters (in 2014), participating in a similar ASW exercise in 2016, and more recently commanding CTF 50 in the Middle East, the US task group charged with strike operations.

I am ignoring things that might considered LPH roles, such as BALTOPS year after year or amphibious deployments.

Regarding manpower - see the answer below to HH.

The last defence review was fudged by politicians promising not to cut Army numbers - the rumours said the RN could expect a manpower uplift of 1500 - 2000 or more personnel.

can we put this thread out of its misery?

Crab, of all the ill-informed bolleaux you have posted on this forum, that sentence alone blows any credibility you may once have had to kingdom come. Get rid of the chips, old chap, your shoulders will feel much better for it.

By the way: Sir Walter Raleigh was Professor of English Literature at Glasgow University and Chair of English Literature at Oxford University. On the outbreak of the Great War he turned to the war as his primary subject. His finest book on the subject was the first volume of The War in the Air, which was an instant publishing success.

Rotarywise - perhaps you would like to detail all the great seaborne experience of someone joining the RN in the last 20 years and going straight in as a pilot, FW or rotary.

So, an academic with no flying experience at all, writes about something he has never experienced - especially bearing in mind that airborne warfare in WW1 was a very new and constantly changing discipline - and it is suddenly gospel.

Perhaps it was a publishing success because of his previous tomes on subjects various such as Milton, Wordsworth and Shakespeare - a perfect preparation for writing Naval aviation doctrine:E

It's called observation bias, the ones who did everything they could to go to sea weren't where you were.

No, they were queuing up to get where I was. In the 3 years I was on the staff at CFS(H) at Shawbury, we had probably 10 QHI courses come through, each with 2 to 4 Navy pilots on, all looking for shore-based appointments to avoid going to sea.

Whoosh....

Sorry Bing - I thought you were jumping on the normal crab-bashing bandwagon:O

"can we put this thread out of its misery?"

They'll only turn up on other threads.......................

Or confirmation bias i.e. saying that because nearly all wanted to go to CFS then no one must want to go to sea. Confirmed..only wrong. Observation bias would be subconsciously telling sailors to apply for CFS to allow the statement 'no-one wants to go to sea because they all want to go to CFS' to be proved true. Only it isn't.

Just saying...don't really care.

Why would we want a floating thing that could be a hospital, power station, water desalination facility, feeding station, repair facility, secure meeting point and a C5 node whilst also able to conduct ops?

Give me a station in the middle of nowhere with a single runway, more tail than dog and a bar full of one-trick ponies telling you how great they are...zzzzzzz!

All looks very impressive - shame Harriet Baldwin couldn't give the real answer as to when the ship would be fully operational and deployable with its F35s on TV this morning.

Still think it's ugly

UGLY ship somewhere up the river - paddles at ready: VIDEO: HMS Queen Elizabeth arrives in Portsmouth for first time - BBC News

Oh good - if she is still there in a fortnight's time I will get a close look at her as we depart Portsmouth on board the Cap Finistere for our autumnal Spanish sojourn :)

One of the officers on board her said this morning on the radio that she would be in service for the next 50 years. Really?

Can't speak for UK carriers, but yes, that is the service life of a modern aircraft carrier. Even the WW2 era USS Lexington had a 48 year service life, the USS Midway, commissioned in 1945, was in service 47 years, and USS Enterprise was commissioned for 56 years.

If that's scary consider this. The youngest B-52 in service today is already over 55 years old and is planned to be retired in 2040, when it will be 78 years old. USAF is currently planning to keep the C-17 flying and in service till after 2115. That'll make many of them over a century old! Mind boggling, no?

HMS Hermes in service with RN from 1959 until 1984 then INS Viraat from 1986 until 2017 (56 years in service?).

When the rubba rubba hits the hubba hubba (when did you stop beating your CVF? QE) :}

UK details F-35B carrier trials 17 Aug 2017 Tim Ripley

Recently there were questions/comments on the TWIN PEAKS (islands) of CVFs - here are some more answers:

The reasons HMS Queen Elizabeth has two islands 14 Aug 2017