PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   Future Carrier (Including Costs) (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/221116-future-carrier-including-costs.html)

Not_a_boffin 12th Jul 2014 13:01

The only problem with it is that it is written from the perspective of one who hasn't gripped the difference between how the USN and RN recruit and man ships.

To be able to realise the scale of manpower savings between QE and a US CVN you'd have to completely change their recruitment and training policy, not to mention their approach to ship operation and their accommodation standards.

One other point is that QE can get away with fewer people in the CAG (TAG if you're of a PC persuasion) because the deck is bigger than it would have to be just to cram aircraft in - the same applies to Ford. So "smaller" ship can actually mean more bodies if you want a comparable sortie rate.

The 3.5 from 11 actually means 3.5 fully available, deployed and worked up. It doesn't mean the other 7.5 are in bits, rather that they're in the US-based part of their operating cycle, letting the CAG and crew stand down and do the leave thing, prior to entering another training and work-up cycle.

david parry 12th Jul 2014 19:06

In a world with the threats of global terrorism,... | AIRCRAFT CARRIERS ;)

SpazSinbad 15th Jul 2014 00:24

Interview: Philip Dunne, UK Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Minister 12 Jul 2014 Andrew Chuter

"...Q. Britain launched the first of two new aircraft carriers July 4. As things stand, SDSR will decide whether the second warship goes into operation or is mothballed. What’s the department’s current view?

A. It’s really a Royal Navy decision. With the capability procured, it’s a matter of crewing and sustainment.

I know the First Sea Lord [the head of the Royal Navy, Adm. Sir George Zambellas] has expressed his preference for two carriers, as has [Defence Secretary Philip Hammond], but it will be up to the Royal Navy to find the budget to be able to crew two vessels for rotating deployment. It’s an operating expense rather than a capital expense. The issue is not to have two carriers on station at one time but to enable a continuous presence...."
Interview: Philip Dunne | Defense News | defensenews.com

FODPlod 15th Jul 2014 08:12


Originally Posted by Philip Dunne
...it will be up to the Royal Navy to find the budget to be able to crew two vessels for rotating deployment. It’s an operating expense rather than a capital expense. The issue is not to have two carriers on station at one time but to enable a continuous presence...."

O tempora o mores! No one, least of all the First Sea Lord, underestimates the huge challenge of finding nearly 700 individually specialised personnel (and their reliefs plus airgroup) to man the QEC out of a Royal Navy reduced to just 23,000 personnel in dark blue. It certainly puts some losses of the Second World War into perspective: 1,415 in HMS Hood; 861 in HMS Barham; 833 in HMS Royal Oak; 766 in HMS Neptune; 724 in HMS Wakeful; 722 in HMS Gloucester; 518 in HMS Courageous; 516 in HMS Avenger; 513 in HMS Repulse; 469 in HMS Galatea; 464 in HMS Charybdis; 419 in HMS Dunedin; 327 in HMS Prince of Wales; etc.

skydiver69 15th Jul 2014 16:56


Interview: Philip Dunne, UK Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Minister 12 Jul 2014 Andrew Chuter
Quote:
"...Q. Britain launched the first of two new aircraft carriers July 4. As things stand, SDSR will decide whether the second warship goes into operation or is mothballed. What’s the department’s current view?

A. It’s really a Royal Navy decision. With the capability procured, it’s a matter of crewing and sustainment.

I know the First Sea Lord [the head of the Royal Navy, Adm. Sir George Zambellas] has expressed his preference for two carriers, as has [Defence Secretary Philip Hammond], but it will be up to the Royal Navy to find the budget to be able to crew two vessels for rotating deployment. It’s an operating expense rather than a capital expense. The issue is not to have two carriers on station at one time but to enable a continuous presence...."
Interview: Philip Dunne | Defense News | defensenews.com
So what the Defence Secretary is saying is that if the RN can afford the crews from their current resources then they are free to have both carriers but HMG isn't going to increase the defence budget to suit.

alfred_the_great 15th Jul 2014 21:16

Pretty much, but note he is Min DEST, and thus "operating" doesn't come his purview (or budget), thus doesn't give a ****. He is repeating a line taken by CDM for the last year or so.

I'd be more concerned if MinAF or SoS Defence was saying this.

In sum, it's a game of bluff: if SoS wants all the RN's capability, he has to pay for it, Levene devolution or not.....

Pheasant 17th Jul 2014 08:43

At last....

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...6&d=1405584537

Martin the Martian 17th Jul 2014 11:02

That is one butt-ugly ship.

HTB 17th Jul 2014 11:13

MtM

Endorsed:D. It looks like its predecessors, but after injection of a massive dose of steroids.

Mister B

ORAC 17th Jul 2014 11:36

Not the stealth version to match the aircraft then........

WE Branch Fanatic 17th Jul 2014 11:38


Originally Posted by alfred_the_great
In sum, it's a game of bluff: if SoS wants all the RN's capability, he has to pay for it, Levene devolution or not.....

Ministers decide what capabilities the UK should have, and 1SL/CGS/CAS say what is needed (eg keeping a ship in service longer than planned) to achieve those desired capabilities?

Not_a_boffin 17th Jul 2014 12:23

https://twitter.com/QEClassCarriers/media

More pics. Hoofing.

And if you want a really ugly ship.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RF...D_45145830.jpg

Onceapilot 17th Jul 2014 16:24

Guess the Pig and Tape is under that ramp then?;)

OAP

NutLoose 17th Jul 2014 16:26

It does look like it was designed by Lego utilising existing bricks.

glad rag 17th Jul 2014 17:26

Paint job does not help, seems to highlight the "add on" nature of the ski jump more than necessary. And it's blunt.

How much air resistance is that to push around after they designed the bow to minimise drag?

Daft.

CoffmanStarter 17th Jul 2014 17:43

Looks like a Crocodile with that "sharp end" paint job :8

Dysonsphere 17th Jul 2014 19:02

lol at least it floated you never know for sure.:E

david parry 18th Jul 2014 15:55

Just an Aside;). The advanced Ford-class carriers have a larger... | AIRCRAFT CARRIERS

SpazSinbad 18th Jul 2014 21:58

British Carrier Remains Controversial 18 Jul 2014 Chris Pocock, AIN Defense Perspective

"...the ACA is striving to make the carriers as flexible as possible. They can be reconfigured from the strike role, with 12 F-35Bs embarked, to a ship that can carry 44 helicopters and deploy 1,000 soldiers in amphibious or littoral maneuver operations....

...but also an angled deck from which UAVs or UCAVs might be launched in the future....

...the MoD is studying a mixed fleet of F-35As and F-35Bs, a senior RAF officer told AIN, on condition of anonymity [crabs meddling again]...."
British Carrier Remains Controversial | Aviation International News

Davef68 19th Jul 2014 01:27

An F-35A buy became very likely when it became clear it was seen as a Tornado replacement.


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:01.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.