Suspenders? Sounds like one Ppruner has 'come out'. :rolleyes:

Yep, coincidence. My dad was invited to join, joined and his career stopped advancing. Remember, dad's aren't always as fantastic at their jobs as we think they are. Ask your son.

I had wanted to join many years ago because I like clubs and societies - nothing more - but didn't get around to being invited. Then in the last couple of years I attended a couple of Ladies Nights with a view to sussing it all out and I found that I had just completely lost interest in the whole thing. I realised that I just could not commit myself enough to be a worthwhile member. But I am still impressed by the amount of good work that they do, including looking after my very sick mum at the Masonic Hospital in London, and I am amazed that they are happy to get on with it despite all the pointed whingeing, whining and bellyaching that they have to put up with.

I know of a young chap serving in the Royal Air Force who was a Freemason through family connection. He was a Senior Aircraftsman, Painter & Doper. Upon leaving the RAF he secured a job in our company as Foreman, Aircraft Finishing - a grade that would equate to Chief Technician in the service. The fact that our Chief Maintenance Engineer at the time (and several more of the management) were members of the local lodge would have had nothing to do with that appointment, of course. :hmm:

He was naturally, well out of his depth and despite his weekly nights out in tuxedo, had to be terminated - but not until the end of his contract.

As to charity and looking after their members, a friend of mine retired from Borneo, returned to UK and bought a small business that included a sub-post office in Romsey, Hampshire. Depite his being of the third degree the local lodge, being a bit "Hoi Poloi" with Earl Mountbatten of Burma as a local, didn't reply to any of his letters infoming them of his arrival in their patch. Unfortunately his wife died a few months later, he went into depression and was unable to keep the business running. He went bankrupt. No help from the brotherhood for him, though he regularly gave local brothers the distress signals when they drew their pensions from his sub-post office. A charity? A pretty strange one from my point of view. The only people who DID help him get out of his depression, get his act together and get going again was the Royal Air Force Association.

"Free?" "Masonry?"

Say, I've got this brick barbeque grill stand I've been meaning to build.......

Freemasons
 

Not necessary to know who masons are but all the names are available at Freemesons' Hall. If you know the Lodge name go and look.

Would point out that you have to be invited to become a Mason - could there be a bit of sour grapes out there perhaps?

Did hear of a V force crew that were all Masons - was there also one that was all ex-Etonians too?

Heres some interesting facts (Gross averages!!): There are currently 330,000 Freemasons (not "Free Masons"), meeting in 8,644 lodges registered with the United Grand Lodge of England; 150,000 registered under the Scottish and Irish Constitutions: Total 480,000 in UK.
Current UK population is estimated at 59,600,000 (2003 Census)
Approx 50% are male, and approx 25% are aged below 21. That leaves approx 2,235,000 eligible men in the UK. Even taking the most conservative estimates, that means that 1 in every 50 men in the UK is on the square!
The current manning level for the British Army is approx 117,000 (all ranks and ages), approx 10% are female leaving 105000 serving men. Just based on the national average (1:50) there are at least 2000 serving soldiers/officers who are freemasons.
I'm sure you have your own theories or can apply your own more scientific maths to other Services....
Did you know that Freemasons raise the most money for non-masonic charities each year....
Freemasonry is not a secret society - it is a society that has secrets - big difference. While it is true that you have to be 'invited' to become a mason, it is relativly easy to extend an invitation to somebody who shows an interest.
http://www.militarymasons.co.uk/

No sour grapes on my part chaps, I had an invite to join a while back and declined due to not feeling comfortable with the whole concept. Alot of what has been said in this thread has alleviated some of my concerns over freemasons but I still haven't heard any good reasons for the secrecy. I guess that is a secret. It will just have to remain a myth, life would be boring if we didn't have myths anyway, wouldn't it? The truth is often less exciting than the story!

you ain't seen me, right!
 

I got 'invited' to join the Masons a couple of years ago. Went along to meet a few of the chaps and was very dissapointed with the whole thing. Seemed like a bunch of people with not a lot to do apart from being able to say they are part of 'secret society'.
I think I might join the Illuminati instead and see if I can do something useful instead like participate in the destruction of the Catholic Church!
Flame on!!!!!!!

<<While it is true that you have to be 'invited' to become a mason, it is relativly easy to extend an invitation to somebody who shows an interest.>>

I was led by the nose a few times and told that I had to show an interest before I was invited but that I would only be invited once.

I have been very careful since, avoiding dark alleys at night etc

The friend of whom I spoke earlier, who was ignored by his 'brothers' when he needed help, once arranged an invitation. Despite the lure of blood-curdling oaths and the odd bit of cold steel, joining the Freemasons didn't seem a very Blacksheep sort of affair.

I'm not really a men-only society chap actually, and much prefer the company of women. (Providing we've been properly introduced of course. I'm no cad!) Each to his own is my motto...

what is there to hide?
 

I may be wrong but don't you have to 'openly declare' that you are a mason if you are a serving member of HM services??
It is this rule/restriction has 'stopped' many servicemen joining whilst they are still serving. Those lodges which are service connected are having fewer joining at the moment as now most are waiting until they retire.
I do not think there are high numbers of masons in the flying game anyway.

and your point is ?
 

TTSL Just supposing I gave you a list of all the Masons in the Services, what would you do with it ?

Incoming Alert
 

<head above parapet>
I know I am only a VRT, but I have been a freemason since I was 22, a few years ago now! In my time I have met a lot of serving Officers and Airmen/Women, yes there are lady freemasons, at various meetings and social functions.

The one thing they all agree on is that being a freemason has neither helped nor hindered their careers and I tend to beleive the information from the horses mouth.

I happen to know that there is an RAF Lodge, which I understand some of their Airships are memebers of. I am still trying to wangle an invite and still have had no luck.

For the record I have never experienced favoritism for my being a freemason. I am currently a bus driver, so I speak from experience. I am quite a senior freemason having worked hard for 18 years in various lodges and chapters.

The only people who have an axe to grind, tend to be those who know nothing of freemasonary except what they have read in books like "The Brotherhood"

</head above parapet>

MostlyM. Good point. Nothing really. As I said in an earlier thread, my early concerns are being dispelled (a little) by some of the replies in this thread. But, bearing in mind the apparent numbers we are talking about (they seem low?), I would like to think that a list of Masons in the RAF would show that there were not a disproportionate number of Freemasons progressing nicely through the rank structure, proving, to some extent, that there are no "bunk-ups". I realise that there must be a variation in talents within this organisation, some good, some average, there may even be more gooduns than averageuns. However, just ocassionally, I see some rather average guys fly through the ranks, often avoiding the hoops most of us have to jump through to be considered for promotion. I have matched the Myth of Freemason "back scratching" with this anomoly (whether wrongly or rightly) and would just like to see evidence of what has been said in the thread above. Believe me, I suspect that there is no Mason "conspiracy", but as long as there are secrets there will always be suspicions; I'm pretty sure I'm not alone with this one.

"We're taught that we're a society with secrets, not a secret society. If a mason wants you to know, he will."

Indeed, but as one of those secrets is the list of members-does this not make the Masons, by definition, a secret society?

As to civilian involvement, there was one now defunct airline that was known as the Gatwick Lodge.

...and some of my best friends are Freemasons !

TTSL The improbable rise through the ranks of seemingly inept people is by no means restricted to the Services; believe me it happens in commerce and industry, and as we all know, in politics too ! I am still at a loss to explain many of the instances I have seen, because I know for sure that none of the people in question were Masons. Incidentally, it is not generally known that Masons are forbidden to use their membership to procure personal or pecuniary advancement, and if they do, they are liable to expulsion.
If anyone applied to me for a job, and in the course of the application made it known that he was a Mason, I would reject him out of hand for misusing his membership. However, in the case of two otherwise equally qualified candidates, one of whom I had reason to believe to be a Mason, he would get the job - simply because I would believe him to be respectable, honest and trustworthy.

TTSL and Lou I don't know what you think the secrets of Masonry are. Freemasons Hall in London ( including the Grand Temple and Museum) are open to the public five days a week. Just walk in and ask to join one of the hourly tours. The Book of Constitutions and the Yearbook are freely on sale, which between them cover the whole structure of English Freemasonry, including every Masonic Lodge and their meeting places, plus dates of meeting. And for several years now, local Masonic Centres have held regular Open Days for interested members of the public. Some "Secret Society" !
Membership lists are not published because they are considered to be a matter of privacy for each member. If he wants you to know he is a Mason, he'll tell you.

The actual secrets relate to modes of recognition, and thereby acceptance by others. They took their rise in the days when craft skills were hard won and jealously guarded. Today they serve to cement the peculiar bond of friendship which is Freemasonry.

Thanks MM, I'm enlightened now. I'll do some background reading next time! Still don't know why Freemasons have to have a "peculiar friendship", but youre right to suggest that its a private matter. Nuff said. Suppose I'd close this thread (as its opener), if I could. Regards to all who took part!

Testing

The point MostlyModerate, is that any organisation that has a secret membership list is by definition, a secret society.

I am well aware of the excellent example set by the Scottish members who parade annually so that anyone can see who their members are.

Why the English membership do not is open to question. But it is this very act that brings so much suspicion and ill-informed rumours upon the Masonic movement.

Which, from my limited experience of some excellent men who are members, seems a pity.

Discussion on freemasonry running here

These days any society (or club) has to keep its membership list secret. Privacy Laws et al require it.

So by your definition, the BBC Blue Peter club is obviously a secret society :rolleyes: And probably every RN Wardroom, PO's mess, RAF mess, etc etc. :ok: