Here here - well said

Vaguely surprised that the 'K' guys have given in so easily. The new kite is obviously pretty d#mn good.

Well done 16 (24 ;-)) Blades for a fine rearguard action. Pity you were left all alone - I suspect the old bird deserved more than just one defender.

"Pity you were left all alone - I suspect the old bird deserved more than just one defender."

They are all on gardening leave so no one is around to perpetuate the row, well apart for our "never been anywhere worth talking about wiltshire warrior":rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

I think YOU need to take a wander over to the 'older' part of the station, chap and find out what WE'RE up to....and have been all along. But hey, get a decent DAS, then feel free to join the party....

You certainly are.

Yes, all that route queening must be SO taxing for you poor souls.

>SERIOUS MODE ON
Actually, I couldn't agree more, but it's not driven by us - it's driven by the requirements of our primary customer. As soon as they tell us they no longer need it, we'll stop doing it. Until then, we have to maintain certain skill sets, AS WELL AS training for current theatres. And with many of our aircraft in and out of Marshalls every 5 minutes for kit upgrades, it's getting difficult to maintain.
>SERIOUS MODE OFF

16B

16 blades....

I have been over your side to see what you are up to - and its not much!!

And you aren't doing too much according to STARS either.

Or the stats that have been produced recently at Lyneham showing the 'j' guys working far beyond harmony.

Nor have you done much at all in Iraq, as there have often been as many as 8 'j' crews out there and 6 frames,with no 'k' support.

Thats whilst the 'j' is still deployed elsewhere , and continues to do routes.

But at least you guys go round and round in the circuit most days - but WHAT ARE YOU ACTUALLY TRAINING FOR??

Every single previous 'k' operator who has come to the 'j' only has good things to say and dont look back. That speaks volumes.

Actually I think you K guys are doing a really good job, 16B.

After all, it can't be easy for you to provide ops support on the operational J dets in between all your ski expeds! :rolleyes:

Kit Upgrades...????

Saw the one with the 'bits' on in the circuit today...incessantly.

Must be thrashing the parts off those 'kit upgrades'.

Hmm...Didn't think you needed DAS in Wiltshire!!!:\

Keeping it vague;
'J' Bloke:cool:

There I was thinking that I was working hard out in theatre trying to massage my working day in order to get the job done for my lads.

Turns out I was wrong all along. So thanks j guys for pointing that out, I'll bear that in mind the next time I'm not there

LCP:confused:

24 blades - If the Ks the way of the future why are so many K pilots jumping ship to join the J over the next few months? What does it tell you when the next course of abinitio K crews have been reroled to J?

That we're getting desperate for crews :E

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html

Seems that the 'Veg' are getting a little annoyed at the lack of either frame!!!
J or K!

Quote:
"The RAF has been blamed for lacking flexibility in providing aircraft, but Air Force chiefs say their fleet of 50 C130 Hercules has a priority to deliver supplies to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Already being discussed here : http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216192

If everything is so great on your fleet, why is everybody leaving?

16B

24 Blades you silly silly young man:rolleyes:

The reason J folks are looking to pastures new is that the current tasking levels are stretching the level of good will beyond the norm, not something that the 47/70 non "sf" crews would know anything about.

Wait till, if your TCAS ever comes up to scratch, you main Sqn guys are back earning your queens shilling in the way that we are then come back to us on here and tell us what it's all about, in the meantime enjoy your extended gardening leave you wiltshire warrior you:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

I think i asked the same about your fleet 24 blades.
Let me put it into perspective for you - an email came across to our side about an exchange posting with "2/3 six week detachments" per year and a K exec had written on the bottom - I suggest this post is only considered by single guys or married guys who want a divorce as its detached duty four months of a year.
This made us all realise how out of touch main squadron K guys are with how much time J guys are doing detached at the mo (four months a year on average). This is why guys are leaving and this is only gonna get worse seeing as we're already planned to do the majority of the Afg det no matter what RAF news would lead you to believe!
I really do hope some of your frames come back online soon just to ease the sanity of our side of the airfield by taking basra for another two weeks or however long you can cope this time!

So do I!!
Er...it's been fitted and working for months.
I did far more than 3 dets last year, as did many others.

I am curious as to just WHERE this perception comes from that we are doing nothing. Yes, we have had availability problems, mainly due to the fact that Marshalls took so long to fit our TCAS (correctly), but the J has been far from unproblematic. We have been running an Afghan det for some time now, and we still cover MPA. The majority of what we do is TacAT - the relevance of some elements have already, rightfully, been challenged - but it still has to be done.

I seem to remember we were there for several months, with more aircraft than you, and it wasn't aircraft availability that ended it. We have more war frames than you, after all. Your operational tasking level seems to have more to do with the politics of pushing the J to the fore being practiced at higher levels than with anything else, since we have the more capable aircraft (in terms of op kit).

Both aircraft have strikingly similar unserviceability rates, so I see no good reason for you guys to take the brunt of the tasking - apart from that mentioned above.

Since when? Our commitment certainly hasn't been reduced.

16B

Im sorry 16 blades you are so mistaken on most things...

Its true you guys do dets... i remember half a dozen of you guys last year supporting the 'j' on yet another det in and out of Pakistan that the 'j' was doing - BUT THERE WERE NO K AIRCRAFT - nice role done as ops support though.

At that same time we had at least six crews deployed in Iraq, with commitments elsewhere too.

You still do the Falklands. Well done.

As for serviceabililty.... Engineering say at best you will have 4 frames for Afganistan, but that is if a miracle happens. We have crews and aircraft on standby.

As for your TCAS, come and look at the 'j' TCAS and compare, and whilst you are there look at our nav kit , HUD and everything else that is MODERN..and notice that there isn't a stink of p*ss in the corner too...

I have several friends on the 'k' who are caught up in doing lots of triv, secondary duties, but more importantly that want to leave either to come to the j or to get away from the boredom.

As for everyone wanting to leave, that is an AT wide problem due to the amount of tasking/time away/crap that we are doing (that doesnt include you)

I never thought It would come to this, but finally I feel I have to respond to a thread. Guys, stop hiding behind the 'it's only banter/ keep the pacifists out' line, you're making all us Herc guys look stupid. Most people don't normally need a reason to slag us off, stop making their lives easy for them.

Facts:

1. The same arguments go around and around....We (I'm a long time K guy) slagged the J 2001/2 when we were doing all the Afghan stuff and all the J did was win a Queen's award for flying into a Pakistani holiday resort.

2. The real problem with the K isn't serviceability, but DAS ac. Give us more and we'll do more, until then the darkside will always get first call. Unfortunately this isn't going to change, sorry J guys, but deal with it.

3. The K is manned 1.7/1. As there has usually been at least 3 Ks deployed around the world since the war then we're not too far behind. On both sides af the airfield there are plenty of people doing too much time away. On the K it is just a smaller bunch all round.

4. 16 blades, chill out big guy. The more you bite the more it looks like there is something to hide, let it go.

5. There are w**kers/whingers on both sides, the rest of us just have to deal with that fact of life.

Seconded...:ok:

Gets my vote:yuk: . I had 4 great tours on the K's - have just flown in the J around ME as a pax. I was truly impressed with the J ... both ac have their points. Not so impressed with a crew at Bzn who referred to both as ''skips'':O - CRM fell down for a little while while I recovered my toys:mad: .

Its seems such a shame that 16B gets all the stick. I am having the time of my life on the K , cant take all my leave and exped tastic my only problem is which exped to go on next. Keep up all the good work J guys remember we all get paid the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Just trying to defend my baby! There seems to be a great deal of ignorance of what the K actually does, mainly, it seems, from those who have never operated it.

Agree, it's getting a little samey now. I thought this was going to be a banter thread but it seems a few raw nerves were touched.

It's only 'cos I'm secretly jealous of your terribly shiny, terribly operational fancy-flashing-light adorned toy....:)

16B

Its just a shame they cant just get on with there job and keep biching about how busy they are. One minute they are bored with nothing to do and now they have to much work. What has it been 8 years now we have had the J model and still not as capable as the mighty K model....:D

Indeed. It's somewhat akin to a Max Power Chav-Hatch, complete with body kit, dustbin-sized exhaust, TV screens and a monster stereo with flashing lights.....lots to talk about and show off, but less useful than a normal car....:E

16B

But at least it doesn't stink of P1$$.

Indeed. It's somewhat akin to a Max Power Chav-Hatch, complete with body kit, dustbin-sized exhaust, TV screens and a monster stereo with flashing lights.....lots to talk about and show off, but less useful than a normal car....

Dear Dear 24B;:{

We have the same body style...we have less bits sticking out...
Body kit...yours has extra nipples...granted!!!
Dustbin sized exhaust...erm...you can have that one!!!
TV screens ..Yep..they're great!!
Monster stereo...Hmm..just been told off for Ipod FM..OOps!!!:ok:

Normal car yes...doesn't need to go to the scrappie yet.

Done 5 tours on Ks....but it's past it...really!!!:hmm:

More Later;
'J' Bloke:cool:

All highly amusing!
 

Only just been catching up with this thread, so here goes...

16B I gotta ask you buddy, did you or did you not have a problem with one of your hands on a det I seem to recall!!! I vaguely remember it looked like a w@N%$r cast!! :rolleyes: In Aye You Did! LMF perhaps!?

Anyway, both aircraft do a fine job and are manned by guys and gals who do their utmost to carry out a professional job to the best of their abilities. Sometimes though there are things which are just outside of our control...All of our control. And I know with some of my landings, if you did that to me for 40 years I would start to rebel aswell!
Oh and just to clarify, we do a fine job when we are not constrained by certain sources and also have aircraft to enable us to do the job!

Oh and I agree with Guy, for once, it is just harmful banter between mates who like to get one up on each other! If anyone takes it more seriously than that...YOU'RE IN THE WRONG JOB!!!

Maybe it is time to cut some of our losses! PIN'S OUT, STAND BACK!

Or maybe cut some of the K's into little pieces............ Oh they are.....

yep, not enough aircraft and not enough people doing alot over there - think its about time that one of the SQN'S was disbanded......

So if the plastic pig is so busy in the sandbox, does that mean we Klassic chaps are going to have to do all the TacDemo's and Falcs trips this season? Or are the leather flying jackets going to be dusted of all that middle eastern topsoil?

These displays require airframes which can be chucked about a bit. Straight and level flight just isn't up to the job and doesn't impress the punters.

So I guess you knew the answer before you asked it.

The free falling hairstyles down the back get a bit touchy if you start throwing them around. One run in and break hardly constitutes being chucked about a bit!

Tac Demo needs a little bit of chuckability I grant you, but we are hardly talking fitting G pants to the drivers are we? (Its bad enough reminding the navs to wear their incontinence pants).

So I take it your defensive pose has more to do with you hoping to get a bit more return for your investment in the leather flying coat and Oakleys then?

.... and your free range rover.....?

You mean - this? ;)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...overPPRUNE.jpg

yeah, that's the one. S'alright for you primadonnas poncing about the airshow circuit while we're working our arses off out here in Jandahar......












;)

Jandahar ?

Yes, Jandahar.

Everyone knows there's no K in Kandahar.......

boom boom! :ok:

That actually made me chuckle.

Thanks Guys.....Another Tea splattered monitor

And coffee splattered keyboard!

Now where is that can of emergency banter.............