Military Forum?
 

"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."

Perhaps it is just my weak grasp of the English language, but where exactly in that statement does it suggest that Journos/spotters are welcome?






Now I think about it, Adminers are stretching the point.

And Rockapes

Some might include ATC

http://bestsmileys.com/angles/3.gif

It's CRM and all that crap innit . . . ..

Even adminers have a part to play in flight safety.

Shiney messes up pilots pay (again) -> pilot gets into plane still thinking about how hes going to be able to afford the down payments on his vintage British sports car -> pilot still too busy thinking about money etc as he flies into side of mountain.

I'll give you rocks though and raise you plods.;)

Tourist,

If you do a search for 'Aircrew up his own Ar$e' you will probably be able to find other threads on this very subject!

Oh for goodness sake, the diversity on this board is half its appeal. I am (no longer) military, nor aircrew, and don't hide the fact.

And there is nothing wrong with rocks. Plods, well OK, depends........

Stacker, that was a FS film back in the 1970s with a young Richard O'Sullivan trashing a Harrier......

Threads like this make me wonder why I am still in after 30 years. Yes we are here to support the 'aircrew', but hey, without us you are stuffed, yes you can fly into wherever, some of the time, you can probably fix some of your snags some of the time, but to do the job properly you ARE part of a team, if you don't like it P*** off.

Maple 01

That was from the 1970s? Bl**dy hell I'm getting old!

Det 1 without "aircrew" your jobs would cease to exist;)

as nice as it is to have a wide variety of people on this forums, it would be nice at times to restrict responses to aircrew. there is often a lot of input on these pages from people who really dont know what they are talking about when it comes to aviation. im only really interested in topics relating to flying and would kind of prefer if they werent taken over by blunts. i respect their knowledge and realise the part they play in keeping us flying which is why when i have a question outside of flying i will go to the expert in that field. i just think that the stackers/cops/admin types need to stick to what they know.

Agreed, but the original thread did cast a fairly wide net. Suffice to say that the relationship between aircrew and blunts is symbiotic.

Blimey, where'd the fun be if everyone stuck to what they knew?

CG

DET1, what branch are you, and does it meet the criteria?

"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."


If so, then fine. Its Danny's trainset.
If not then its you that should p1ss off

Fortunately, Tourist, you don't have a say in who is allowed to post here. The mix currently represented allows a broad and vigorous discussion about all matters to do with military aviation - and not just British military. As this is one of the most active, most informative and most entertaining fora on PPRuNe, we will leave it exactly as it is - including extending a welcome to all those who have a valid point to make about military aviation, whether they be aviators or not.

Let's face it, we are all (or mostly) tax-payers; they're our toys you're playing with!

Scroggs

And many of the journos have 'got some in' before they went over to the dark side. Mick Smith was in the Army, I believe, and some of the specialist lads have PPLs, etc. a few of us even having been taught to fly on UASs.

What a short sighted statement !!!! I wonder how you'll feel when the "playstation generation" are busy operating UAVs from the safety of blighty via a big computer screen. The air force will still need techies to fix, suppliers to source and intel from the int branch, in fact it will just be the "aircrew" who would be surplus to requirements.:{ :{

And if it means less people like you that can only be a good thing (IMHO)

Well scroggs, why not change the tag line to

"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here plus we would specifically like to welcome backstabbing journos and the opinions of any twonk who was in the cadets once and held a real BB gun once, honest"

Obviously Jacko is exempt because he touched a Bulldog once:rolleyes:

I know it was mentioned / discussed before, but the idea of a closed thread to me sounded good.

I do agree with the "But I'm ex mil, and want to contribute" and all the more better for it, but others have closed forums such as BA and Virgin. Why those organisations and not us ?

Not that I really care though. Just stirring things up :E

As a controller in the TVAA for a Civilian company, who i hasten to add gets military aircraft by the bucket loads - Vortex', Shawbury, Iceberg, ArmyAir, Navy, etc etc trying to fly through the helilanes (and not always doing a very good job of Navving), i feel we all have an equal part in the industry, and thus exchanging points of view on forums. It takes more than one point of view to make a discussion, otherwise its just butt-kissing.
If you feel that civvies should be excluded from mil areas, then we'll stop all military in civil control zones....

Tourist, I have looked back through your thread contributions. You seem to be either a long serving arrogant 'superior' aircraft crewman, or else a long serving arrogant fool. Does anyone else have an opinion? Look forward to Tourists reply, preferably in the terms one would expect of an Officer and a Gentleman. :ok:

Tourist

I've got a lot of sympathy for you on this one. I am not aircrew, but I do think as an engineer I fill the published requirements. I think that there are many trades/specialisations which don't obviously fit the criteria though. Shineys, stackers, plods, rocks, fitters and turners, etc would all fit that list. But, and a big but, many of them do bring things to the discussion which we are probably too blinkered to see. We are all guilty of making the odd ill considered post, (excepting BEagle of course, who is never wrong), but I think the balance is generally okay, and most people try not to post where they know bugger all. There are exceptions of course, and they stand out like a dogs nads.

S_H

Well said Kitbag,

Tourist brings nothing but arrogance to this forum, I strongly suspect that the only thing he flies is his misplaced ego. :mad:

Bitter and twisted is how you come across Tourist, bitter and twisted... Obviously a Fighter Controller stuck underground, in a field or perhaps in the new CRC with freshly bricked up windows!! :uhoh:

Im on a UAS does that mean I'd have access to Tourist's imaginary forum?
:ok:
P.S. (I'm enjoying the inter-service banter :E)

Closed forum
 

I can see both sides of the argument here.

It's a great forum we have here with a wide spectrum of input, however, I have always thought it would be a good idea to have a closed forum.

Mods: Would this be a difficult thing to set up? I can only think the initial problem of weeding the Wannabies out from the Military Aircrew would be the biggest hurdle.

Any hope of seeing something like this in the future?

For now it looks like we'll have to keep baiting the blunties ;) and arguing about washing cars. :yuk:

TF

Washing cars, thats a good point actually.

My wife bought a Discovery today and whilst I'm all in favour of us washing our own cars, I know she won't... :rolleyes:

Tourist, are you free on sunday for a valet? :p

A closed forum would, on occasion, be great in principle however, would they be possible to moderate? How would they go about checking out the credentials of each 'aircrew' member? Tough one.

We'll all be SH (which is the way forward anyway) leaving you lot to play with your toy aeroplanes. :}

Can you also get a set of wings for your pyjamas, so absolutely everyone you meet in bed has that last vestige of doubt cleared up about your aircrew status? I'm also thinking of having 'Flt Lt" tatooed on my willy, so I can pull rank on myself (have to abbreviate it for obvious reasons). Finding out that non-aircrew use this forum must rank up there for self-loathing right along with the moment you discovered your mother was a blasted civilian.

Just being the Devil's Advocate you understand, but you can't fly it without someone fixing it...BUT even if they fixed it and nobody flew it, it'd soon break itself and need fixing again.

:8

jeez, people can be a bit sensitive on here! surely it wouldnt be too hard to keep the military forum for general sort of all access stuff but also have a closed forum. im sure all the BA guys enjoy having the open forums but equally quite like being able to discuss things without every man and his dog reading. sometimes it would be nice to not have to worry so much about journos, not talking about classified stuff but just talking without worry of your comments so easily ending up being taken the wrong way by people out of the loop. anyway, we all have id numbers etc so shouldnt be too hard to restrict to active military, just like the BA/Virgin forums manage to do.

Don't see the problem .... I've always seen this forum as a Happy Hour bar on a flying station (I know I've said this before) with a number of conversations going on. Lots are aircrew, and quite a few aren't. Similarly, the subjects may or may not be closely related to military aviation.

So what - your presence here and your contributions are both voluntary ... I'm sure I could go into a Happy Hour conversation and say "This is a boring/irrelevant/insular conversation ... please leave". And what a pr@t I'd be. I just don't join that particular conversation.

Nor do I say "You're not in uniform - b*gger off" ... 'cos believe it or not, filthy civvies may have something useful to contribute. And/or may be retired or wannabees, both of whom IMHO have a perfect right to hear and be heard - in the bar or on pprune.

As to a closed forum - the military ain't BA - just consider how you would "vet" people and what the security implications might be....

Unnecessary in principle - unworkable in practice.

Great an Air Force full of techies, suppliers and int! Maybe also you could be the person to write the new MT orders:D

If that's the way you see things going, I'll get my coat

"If that's the way you see things going, I'll get my coat"

Do you mean to say there's no-one to do it for you?:E

Why do some of the aircrew in here feel the need to to have somewhere special just for them? Not enough love at work?;)
Or do you prefer a conversation where everyone agrees with each other?
I like the happy hour analogy. It makes sense and it is good for all of us, no matter where we work to get another perspective on all the topics discussed. If that's not too rational.

Tourist

I am an ex Military Aviator and am now a civvy ATCO - I assume that I would have no place in your forum either?

You strike me as a pompous, arrogant tw@t; I assume you are in the senior service as your profile says you are a 'loafer WAFU'.

You seem to be the type of person who thinks that the world revolves around you - someone I would associate more with being in an air force due to flying being the raison detre of their being; certainly not someone who should realise that they are but one small cog in the machine.

Get a life; the forum works well, another private forum would maybe be a good idea for sensitive issues; but there is nothing wrong with the structure of this one. If you don't like it, go forth and multiply - you are not forced to use it. It's a rumour network - not the Queens Regs online.

Closed Forum?
 

Isn't that what the Officers'/SNCOs' Messes are all about - a closed forum where you can chat amongst your peers without the oiks getting to hear about it?

This is the Internet, do we really need to extend Aircrew/Non-Aircrew or even Commissioned/Non-Commissioned mentalities out into the public domain?

Teetering head.. My feelings exactly.

"Tourist brings nothing but arrogance to this forum, I strongly suspect that the only thing he flies is his misplaced ego.

Bitter and twisted is how you come across Tourist, bitter and twisted... Obviously a Fighter Controller stuck underground, in a field or perhaps in the new CRC with freshly bricked up windows!! "

Arrogant.....maybe.
Ego............I never said I was any good.
Bitter..........not even a tiny bit. My good fortune in flying appointments is notorious throughout the FAA. It has been suggested that on current trend, my next job will probably be Hugh Heffners plunge pool assistant.(that narrows my identity down a bit!) Truly cannot believe I get paid for this lark.
Twisted.......You will have to ask my wife.

I feel I should point out at this juncture that I never said the Military does not need a varied selection of branches to operate, just that in my opinion they don't fit the criteria for this forum.
I also never suggested that engineers don't fit, as they obviously do.

ukatco_535, you say I am

"someone I would associate more with being in an air force due to flying being the raison detre of their being"

erm yes.....I concur. Since when has being here for the love of flying been a bad thing? Would you rather I was here for the money?


Incidentally, I have nothing against civvy ATC. Extremely professional, helpful and competent. Navy ATC on the other hand......

As someone who is another wannabe, I hope the Mil forum isn't locked out to us, cadets, civvies etc.

I come from a strong RAF-orientated family and am looking to go onto join after Uni, and this forum has provided me, and i'm sure many others, with a lot of decent info and banter.

This forum never fails to amuse or inform, or even just supply a decent read when the TV is naff. I don't participate often as I feel i'm out of place, but it'll be a shame to have such a good source of information and enjoyment restricted.

OK. Trick question, especially for EGUW Ops:
Which agency is the 'controlling authority' for the 'Thames Valley Avoidance Area' and permitted to authorise 'clearance' into said low-flying area?

Joe2812

890 posts in a little under two years hardly seems like '....I don't participate often...'!!!

Anyway, observation over, let the slanging match continue ........

i never said id issue clearances in TVAA, just helilanes..get it right, the mil pilots call me requesting entry into the TVAA I barely know what the TVAA covers and dont really want to. You expect me to give you a service flying in Class G airspace flying from Wattisham to odiham or wherever, then you can expect to get my six-pennies worth if I can answer a question or have an opinion.