Troops stranded in Basra by grounded planes
 

From today's Daily Telegraph:-
Troops stranded in Iraq by grounded planes
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 07/10/2005)

Hundreds of British troops were stranded in Iraq yesterday after all the RAF's specialised aircraft were grounded with mechanical faults.

Two and a half years of constant operations have taken their toll on the ageing Tristar aircraft

Soldiers who have completed their six-month tours or are due to go on leave have had to wait for a week as technicians try to repair the three RAF Tristars, which can carry up to 260 troops.

Two and a half years of constant operations have taken their toll on the ageing aircraft and the situation has become so serious that defence chiefs have ordered the RAF's four massive C17 air transporters to be used to ferry troops out of the operational theatre.

But the aircraft, designed to carry heavy military equipment including tanks, can only carry 102 troops, leading to a huge backlog.

Michael Ancram, the shadow defence secretary, said he would be demanding an immediate investigation.

"This is disgraceful and a further sign of defence overstretch. I will be writing to the Secretary of State asking for urgent action," he said.

"This is an example of what happens when you are trying to conduct operations on a hand-to-mouth existence without the right amount of spending available."

The "air bridge" to Iraq will come under greater strain in coming weeks as 12 Mechanised Brigade finishes its six-month deployment and is replaced by 7 Armoured Brigade.

Soldiers have also been left for weeks in Britain waiting to return to their units. An infantry officer in Basra reported yesterday that one of his men was 20 days overdue from leave after being stranded.

The mother of one 24-year-old private who had been sweating in 122F (50C) heat at the British headquarters in Basra airport for the last week said she was going "completely mad" awaiting his return.

"They have had to put up with and seen some terrible things during their tour," she said. "Now they have to sweat it out at the airport, with missile attacks, because the military does not have enough planes working. It's been very hard on all of us."

A military source in Basra said there were problems "coming in and out of this place" with high demands being made on aircraft. "Unless they are fitted with specialist kit they will not be allowed into theatre because we will not put our guys into any danger," he added.

All flights into Basra are at night with a black-out inside the aircraft. Civilian planes cannot be used as special air defence measures are required for the hostile environment. The military has attempted to send troops from Basra on Hercules transporters to Qatar and then on charter flights home with Monarch Airlines but failed to get diplomatic clearance from the Arab Emirates.

An RAF spokesman said two of the Tristars had been lost to "minor servicing issues" and another needed longer-term repairs.

The air transport situation has become so serious that the MoD is attempting to raise money to lease two more C17s from Boeing.

Without an increase in aircraft the logistics chain for the deployment of a brigade to Afghanistan early next year will be threatened.

An RAF technician warned that although aircrew might get tired "it's the airframe on these aircraft that is being put under great strain. It's because of cutbacks - they just don't have enough money."

Will this make the politicians realise that you can't get something for nothing? Sadly, I suspect not. It costs money to run an air force, even more to run one with numerous major commitments. Logic says that if you keep the cutbacks coming, there will come a point where you cannot maintain the capability, regardless of how much goodwill, effort, dedication, overtime, cancelled leave etc those at the sharp end can deliver. This really does exemplify the poor way in which the RAF is treated (NB the UAS cuts).

The pongos are fully justified in being extremely p1ssed off but must direct their anger towards the Govt and not the gingers and drivers (airframe) within the RAF.


PS If I was King, I would have bought B767 for the AT, AR, AEW and any other role I could think of. A bit of initial outlay, but then you have the benefit of commonality and a modern airframe with low operating costs. Unfortunately, the way the Govt has always done it is just the reverse, for example the VC10. Buy airframes that airlines are getting rid of because they are obsolete (and this was 25 years ago), difficult to maintain and uneconomic to run. That said, VC10s are very good looking and sound cool. The VC10s should be nicely looked after in museums by now, and the Timmys should be sitting in the Mojave desert.

Well at least the future looks better when they get the A330 aircraft all new and shiny, that they are getting in the tanker deal. Shame it is still some years off.

and what good timing when they can't get into BZZ for the minor servicing issues........ :eek: :}

By Howard Wheeldon A DOW JONES NEWSWIRES COLUMN

LONDON (Dow Jones)--News that hundreds of British troops slated for return home have been stranded in Basra due to serviceability problems of TriStar aircraft belonging to RAF Transport Command comes as no surprise.

It highlights the need to speed up negotiations on the proposed GBP13 billion Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft PFI that have been going on between the MoD and Airbus (ABI.YY) for almost a year, and it also shows the RAF needs additional aircraft in the short term.

Having finally won preferred status in February for what will be the U.K.'s largest-ever PFI project, the Air Tanker consortium led by Airbus and including Cobham (COB.LN), Rolls Royce (RR.LN), VT Group (VTG.LN) and Thales (12132.FR) is still bogged down in final contract talks with the MoD, and the service date planned from 2010 looks increasingly in doubt.

FSTA is designed not only to replace the U.K's fleet of VC10 and TriStar tanker planes but also to provide the RAF with a modern fleet of A330-200 transporters. The idea is that all the aircraft can be used in either configuration according to need, and when not required can be leased by the Air Tanker consortium to the private sector.

2010 is the marker, but the RAF, using 40-year old aircraft to ferry troops, needs more planes well before then. With just nine TriStar aircraft in four different configurations including tanker, cargo and passenger, this is not nearly enough for the demands being put on Transport Command.

The TriStars were acquired from either British Airways (BA.LN) or Pan Am and date from the early 1970s. Though extremely reliable, spare parts are a constant problem, as the Lockheed plane has been out of production since 1984. They aren't the oldest aircraft in the fleet either: that label goes to the 17 Vickers VC10s from 1964/5.

The problem is the years of delay in properly equipping RAF Transport Command with enough suitable aircraft to cope with its needs. The existing VC10 and TriStar fleet is being hammered to death with daily flights to Iraq and many other locations supporting British troops out in the field.

The demands on Transport Command are probably greater than at any time in the last twenty years, and the fact is that even if the RAF didn't have constant serviceability problems it still hasn't got enough aircraft.

True, the troops stuck in Basra waiting to go on leave aren't helped by the fact that Transport Command planes can only fly in and out of Basra at night. And some flights to Basra go via Cyprus, meaning troops have to transfer to smaller Hercules planes for the final leg of the journey.

This is hardly ideal, and often requires two noisy Hercules Js in which troops travel in relative discomfort, wearing full body armor and for the most part in pitch black darkness.

Though the current fleet can and will be kept serviceable until FSTA aircraft replace them, the solution to this problem should be that the RAF buy or lease temporary planes. With four massive Boeing C17s already on lease and a fifth likely to be added, taking more C17s could be an answer - if they could be quickly made available.

And there are plenty of retired TriStars that could still be brought back into action.

A braver decision might well be to buy or lease some used Airbus A330s, perhaps negotiating this as a preliminary move within the overall FSTA contract. That would solve the short-term problem and pilots could start getting used to the new aircraft type.

There is no doubt the RAF needs additional aircraft and it needs them now. The VC10 might still be a great beast and, amazingly, the fastest passenger aircraft still flying while the TriStar is a remarkably comfortable plane. But to continually flog them beyond their endurance capabilities is a risky stress test and means they probably won't last another eight years.

British troops deserve better than delays, particularly when stuck in sweltering heat with little if any air conditioning at the tired remains of what is Basra airport today.

Transport Command?
 

IIRC, Transport Command ceased to exist a number of years ago...mid 70's?? Beags, over to you!..

1968-ish, wasn't it? Absorbed into Air Support Command and thence into Strike in 1972/73?

Should keep the boys in the ARC IPT working at the w/e !:ok:

Arch & mystic

TC renamed as ASC in Aug '67; then absorbed into STC Sep '72 as 38Gp (Tac) and 46Gp (Strat).

Have a beak at www.rafweb.org - full of all sorts of historical stuff.

Well, what a surprise this all is....

We should have bought those 24-ish A310 MRTTs first proposed over 10 years ago before all the utter bolleaux of PFI first stated.

I feel very sorry for the guys stuck in the desert $hithole whilst the gingerbeers do their best to patch up the ageing TriShaws.

One hopes that questions will be asked at high level about this!

PS - Transport Command indeed disappeared in 1968!

It isn't just the lack of spares that's crippling the AT fleet. It may be something to do with a lack of manpower as well. We are doing our best to keep Albert in the air at Lyneham, but you can only do so much with so few.

It's never good to see the RAF being publicly embarrased in this way. However, one only hopes that now the problem has been aired in this way something is done to resolve it - ASAP.

Something will be done - the Secretary of State will b0llock the Permanant Secretary, who will b0llock CAS, who will b0llock CinC Strike, who will b0llock AOC 2 Gp, who will b0llock the relevant Gp Capt and the appropriate Stn Cdr, who will b0llock everyone else for leaking information! :E

"Hurumph - contrary to order and discipline, methinks"
"What is, Sir? Telling the truth?"
"Now - that's quite enough of that conshi talk, boy, just cut along,will you! Anyway, must go - urgent appointment with m' tailor in town"

...'twas ever thus.

Don't forget your hat sir.

am heading out there in two weeks - hope they are still broken so im delayed !

I read this topic with great interest.
Unless i'm tired there seemed to be a very salient point missing in here guys.
The Tristars were flogged to death from 1984 on the South Atlantic run, 16,000mile round trip...how many flying hours were amassed during that route in total.

History in all its forms has always repeated itself.
Maj Gen Peter De La Billiere said after Gulf 1, " we are doing more and more, with less and less...!!!!"

What happens, SDR comes in. S for Strategic, well what utter Bolleaux, how can we do strategic when more and more aircraft sorties are lost through lack of cash/resources.

I know there was always them and us between movers and techies, but for once, as an Ex Mover, i have to give credit where credit is due, but they still manage to keep the frames in the air with what resources they are left with.

As for replacement aircraft, the NATO AWACS Component had it sorted.

Operate a 707 in the PCF Role (known as the TCA). This frame doubled as a troop carrier as well as a training frame for the E3D.

The Airbus fleet i believe from a recent documentary is a "family" aircraft.
IE...you qualify on a A319 and the flight deck in the A340 is the same albeit extra instruments for the extra engines. Thereby saving vast sums of money on more training and spares...

So what would we do if it was necessary to pull the troops out in a hurry? Iraq is hardly close enough for a day's sail by hundreds of small craft. Perhaps before Blair struts the World stage again with his mate George he might like to study his resources more carefully and then maintain the funding for them.

And I am afraid that you can't just buy a few Tristars out of the desert either! Where will the Flight Eng's come from? I seem to remember someone shut the school down!!!

Hee hee hee the grass really is greener..

Oh and you guys will be taking on Iran soon methinks...


:O

Could always ask the Bearded One for some of his 340-300s that are being replaced by 346s if they aren't spoken for (i.e. going to Nigeria). The French AF just picked up two ex Austrian 340-200s for troop transport on lease.

As i understand it there is an even bigger screw up here.... these technical problems have been known about for some time, and in fact were scheduled repairs....

That said, many attempts were made to get chartered aircraft into various places (wont mention names obviously) BUT the massive problem was diplomatic clearances.... This should not have been a problem because this was known about long in advance!!! But it all fell apart.

Another point to note is the armys BLOCK BOOKING of the tristars meaning that they often went home with empty seats even though people had been turned away from the flight(by the movers)..

The whole situation was a disaster but was not only the RAF's fault.... poor planning by all on this one!!

On another note, the passenger checking in at Basra ( a perfectly functioning airport til the army destroyed it) are treated worse than cattle, with no air con, extremely limited food and sat around for up to 12 hours plus....

I witnessed a completely empty Tristar disappear off back to BZN whilst I was in Basrah while a full load of passengers filed onto buses for transit.

The reason, that wonderful box of tricks that makes RPG's magically miss a lumbering slow passenger a/c on finals going tits-up. Duty of care eh? 2 years ago none of the regular passenger a/c were fitted with ECM yet that night it was far too dangerous to take the pax back so it was a second night in transit for them. God forbid soldiers who've spent 6 months driving up and down route 6 in soft skinned Land Rovers doing top cover run the risk of taking off at night in a plane with no ECM.

Its not on. The British Army are our main customer and with crap like this its no wonder we get so much stick from them.

"RAF spokesman said two of the Tristars had been lost to "minor servicing issues" and another needed longer-term repairs."

Not bad out of a fleet of 3 C2s, the only ones that can take passengers into theatre!!!

Bring back the Comet:

http://user.itl.net/~colonial/comet/latest.html

When it was pensioned off from Bsocombe Down one of the options to keep it flying, was to give it to Kinloss to be used as a Sqn hack. Instead of sending the 3rd crew and the groundcrew by Herc, 'Canopus' fitted out with about 50 seats would have been able to follow the 2 deploying Nimrods and everyone gets there in comfort.

The plan fell apart when some short-sighted ar$e decided we couldn't afford to put the Comet through a major at Kinloss.

From Sky News:

'TWO MORE YEARS IN IRAQ'

The President of Iraq has told Sky News that British troops will not be able to leave the country for at least two more years.

Jalal Talabani was speaking as UK forces arrested 12 people in southern Iraq, suspected of being linked to the increase in attacks against allied troops.


Despite the violence and on-going US operations against the militants, the President said he believed the country's constitution would be approved and that Iraq would not descend into civil war.

Mr Talabani, a former Kurdish fighter against Saddam and now President, told Sky News Foreign Affairs Editor Tim Marshall: "Within two years I think our forces will be ready to replace the coalition forces in Iraq.

"But that depends on a resolution from the (United Nations) Security Council and negotiations between the Iraqi government and the coalition forces.

The recent pictures from Basra might give the impression that the Iraqi people are against the British. Mr Talabani disagrees and argues against the idea that they are occupiers, calling them heroes.

"Iraq was a concentration camp above the Earth and the mass graves are beneath it. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis are buried in these mass graves.

"You came, Americans came, to rescue the Iraqi people.

"I think one of the noble goals which the coalition forces achieved is that 27 million Iraqis were freed from this dictatorship, which was not only dangerous for Iraqi people but for the Middle East."

So if the Timmies are shagged out now, how will they last the next 2 years?

Turn it in Stacker. If I'm not mistaken we are all employed in Her Majesties Government, and we all piss in the same pot.

Since when did we turn into a new age, profit making, service providing organisation:rolleyes: :yuk: :yuk:

What do you think Beags? Bring back the VC10!

Nope.

$hitcan the pointless and totally useless aircraft carrier programme and buy some A330s.

Wondered when the inter-service slagging off would come up.

Beags you harris, that has got nothing to do with it. If you hadn't spent so much money on bunkers in the ground (IUKADGE) and Nimwacs then you could have afforded your A330s.

The problem lies firmly in light blue laps, stop blaming everyone else!

Dear Rocket:confused:

You slagged of stacker for saying "The British Army are our main customer"... but if they are not then who is?

I may well be wrong but do they not stump up out of their budget for every air asset they use...... can't believe we use Airforce money to move pongoes about :rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Stacker, your naivety beggars belief.

Seems like it's a good time to leave then. I reckon at least half the AT fleet agree. 41000?, at this rate we will be 30,000 next year.

So how are we going to get further east when we take over lead nation status. That is a very long way by Albert

Therein lies the rub, KPax.

Methinks the plan hath gone to the faeces of the rodent..

Why thank you, I aim to please.

Of course my comments are based on my ever so humble lowly opinions, which are in turn based on my experiences.

I've never a bad word to say about the SH chaps as I've worked alongside them on many occasions and witnessed them bending the rules in order to get a job done. What I witnessed in Basrah was a completely empty (except for trolley dollies of course) Tristar take off and head back to Blighty leaving a full load of pax to be bused to transit for the second night on the trot.

Now unfortunately unless us mushrooms are actually told whats going on we draw out own conclusions so perhaps its in the best interest of the AT folk (who's U/S aircraft affect so many) to be a bit more forthcoming with information so that the rank and file have a better idea of why they are enjoying another free night of bed and board at Club 18-30 Basrah rather than making their way back to the arms of their loved ones. I'm sure if you ask the folk over on Arrse what their number one gripe is with the RAF AT fleet its being delayed and not being given any information as to why.




Actually there was one good point about the many cancelled Tristar flights in the Gulf, it meant I could get my head down early if I was on shift and not have to try and sleep in my barely air-conditioned tent during the day, for that I suppose I should be grateful.

The master plan continues, invade Iraq, invade Afganisistan, get Turkey in the EU, park our new aircraft carriers in the Gulf and we have Iran surrounded. Hah!

Its ok, God made me do it.

Wilts,

You really are a comedy genius:ugh:

In no way have i slagged OFF Stacker. I simply make reference to the fact that we do NOT have "customers"

Perhaps, as you are obviously better informed than I, being a Loadmaster, you could inform us as to how else the Army could spend their share of the DEFENCE budget.

Were we the lowest bidders for their ongoing charter to Basra?

Can I hire one of your C-130's to take me on holiday next year?

On second thoughts, if your Tea is as good as your banter, I'd rather row there.
:ok:

In a serious reply to helpful stacker. The point of contact between the pax and the AT crews are the movers. On too many occasions to mention I have found that the reason for a delay/cancellation has not been passed from AT crew to pax.

I have been frequently totally shocked by passengers telling me why they think a trip was altered that is so far removed from the truth it beggers belief! The source of their info; the movements staff.

AT crews have to deal with with the fall out from duff gen for the entire trip, its not in their interest to keep the truth from the pax, quite the opposite. They want the truth to be know and are often thwarted in their attempts to inform the pax, the Brize/Fairford situation makes it even worse.

OK time to get of my Rioja fuelled soap-box, 0-60 in 3 bottles!!!

Rocket

Your Sqn's hire a C-130 for your holidays in Cyprus every year between Apr & Jul!!!

P.S. We make sure you don't get any tea, so as not to spoil you when you get back in your shiny steeds!

Thanks Squib,

I just love it when some "royals" point out in that oh so constructive manner how baldrick and fu@wit are somehow inter linked:}

Here is how I understand it. Within the military we have a system of budgets, and within that system individual budget holders, at all levels are responsible for ensuring the money they allocate is correctly spent whether they are buying ball point pens, four tonners or AT/SH hours.

Semantics or not I would suggest that the guy with his hands on the Army purse strings, or the fast jet sqn/navy etc etc budget holder who bids for AT/SH support, knowing that his bag of money, albeit notional, is going to be depleted to pay for crew pay/airframe hours/servicing costs etc will feel a little like a "customer" and it is incumbent on us in the AT/SH fleets to provide our customers, and trust me we do percieve them in that way, with the best service their funds have paid for.

Therefore Stacker is fully correct, we have customers who as individual budget holders at all levels, utilise their share of the pot to pay for our services, unless of course I have missed something blindingly obvious, which I am sure you will be quick to point out:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced