Aircrew Hmmmmmmmmm!
 

Noticed during some of these threads that many of the Aircrew have an opinion that they are "Pilots first and Officers second"

So the topic today is "Aircrew, do they need to be commisioned"?

Lets see:

You need A levels to be an Officer/Pilot, many SAC Techncians have A levels.

Officers/Pilots train at Cranwell, NCO Aircrew also train at Cranwell.

Groundcrew technicians have been used as rear crew (Sentry, Herc etc)

The Army have SNCO and JNCO Pilots and aircrew.

Ergo: Make all pilots SNCO's and all rear crew (inc Navs) SAC crewmen. Therefore even with flying pay we save the defence budget a small fortune! Hoorah.

(Currently donning Kevlar and ECBA)

Pray tell...when did grd trades become crew in the real sense of the word....ie a/c unable to get airborne due to lack of............?

Less than 500days2do...thankgod !!!

500etc,

That was a pretty dumb comment. Jets don't fly for long without the help of the groundCREW. Great bunch, if my memory serves me well.

Who gives a "flying f**k" what rank the aircrew are or what rank the groundcrew are!!!!!!!!! As long as the job gets done, whatever that job is. Teamwork will always get the desired results without all this willy-waving. There are good and bad in all organizations, and thankfully the good overshadows the bad in most cases.

"when did grd trades become crew"
surely they beacme "crew" when they became ground crew. I don't think the aim of this thread is to discuss the airCREW and groundCREW divide, but its also not to widen it. GroundCREW are a huge and pivotal part of flying and without them we wouldn't be able to fly our aircraft. Comments like "when did grd trades become crew", I feel, are not appropriate.

think the topic that stax should be starting is ' is stax bitter and twisted and too long in the job!? '

ground crew are an essential part of the 'team' and everyone has their part to play - starting the rank argument is not wise really, and as for saving money... have you thought that the politicians who cut the budget, swan around in their flash cars getting paid stupid amounts and getting thousands in expenses... stax,there is the money for your cba...

Aircrew etc
 

Sorry Truckie bloke

No jeously intended, re read my opening. Its the Aircrew in these forums that mention "Pilot first Officer second". If thats the case then pi55 off to civvy street where you won't have to be an officer at all, leaving you to be a pilot all the time!

PS: 27 years in and have worked with some superb crews of all services and airframes both at home and on ops, so don't assume anything!

Ok...back to basics here....what's the difference between an Officer and airman which originally made it necessary for pilots to have a commission?

Air Loadmasters were originally drawn from the Supply trade.

If flying were difficult, RAF Air Traffic Controllers would have to do it.

..........I'll get my coat;)

OK Rivet joint, I'll fall for it ...................... What is the difference?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking. What is it about being a pilot that means you must have a commission?

I’ve heard it stems from having to be commissioned in order to be able to drop nukes.

But that maybe a load of rubbish?

Do really think that the Airships would be happy letting an NCO go off on his/her own with such a hugely expensive bit of kit? Who would supervise them? What if they had to make a diversionary landing - how could they possibly be trusted to make a good first impression and shake everyone firmly by the hand?

Ok soooo...

Required Property 1, an officer knows how to shake a hand firmly, an NCO doesn't.

RP 2, When in the air an aircraft increases in value, by so much that you must've read The Times before you joined the Service to operate it.



:D

Or worse still, what if they did it better than one of the Cranwell's comissioned finest?

Most pilots I know don't give 2 hoots if they are an officer or an NCO.

Pay me enough, treat me well, give me the authority to do my job, and you can give me any rank you choose.

I joined to be a pilot. The RAF told me I had to be an officer. I don't know of anybody who applied to be an officer, and were told they had to be a pilot.

Rank and authority are often confused on a flightdeck.

I was told on IOT that NCOs were prevented from being pilots and navs when we first had the nuclear capability, as mentioned before.

They apparently only wanted Commissioned Officers to have the responsibility to drop buckets of sunshine.

No reason now why it can't change back.

Ray

How was this handled in WWII, I wonder? I suppose that the simple solution was to commission all those who a) survived and b)"fitted in".

If we changed it to allow anyone to fly then we wouldn't be the only one of the three services to send our officers into battle before our men/women. :hmm: