Merlin crash
 

BBC

Helicopter crashes at navy base

A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall

The crash happened near the station's control tower
A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall.
The incident happened at RNAS Culdrose, near Helston, on Tuesday afternoon. A Merlin helicopter crashed near the control tower.

It is not known how many people have been injured. Ambulances and two fire engines have been sent to the base.

Navy paramedics are at the scene and the main road to the Lizard has been closed at Helston.

More soon...

__________________________________

Hope everyone's OK.....

Just heard all the crew got out okay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3583409.stm
Helicopter crashes at navy base

The crash happened near the base's control tower
A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall.
The incident happened at RNAS Culdrose, near Helston, at about 1500 BST on Tuesday when a Merlin helicopter hit the ground near the control tower.

One man was trapped in the aircraft and flown to hospital. Four other people were slightly hurt in the incident.

The £60m anti-submarine aircraft, which is thought to belong to 824 Squadron, had just taken off on a training flight.

Road closed

Two civilian fire engines were sent to the base but were not required. Civilian ambulances were also called to assist navy paramedics.

The main road from Helston to the Lizard has been closed as a precaution.

The Merlin, which was first introduced in 1997, normally carries a crew of three comprising a pilot, observer and aircrewman.

The 22.8 metre-long aircraft has a rotor diameter of 18.6 metres, weighs 14,600 kilograms and has an anticipated service life 35 to 40 years.

RNAS Culdrose is responsible for training helicopter pilots, observers and aircrewmen in search and rescue, weather forecasting and aircraft handling.

Glad everyone is safe.

But £60 million each..........:eek:

£60 Million, that will be £20 million for the Merlin and £10 million for Westlands to say it can be flown by the RN and £30 Million for the onboard Pies.


Glad everyone is safe, and best wishes for a full and speedy return to fitness and flying.

When I was on 700M squadron the right-off cost for RN24 was £39.5m or so the C126 form from the Supply (or is that logistics) people said. £1.5m for a Hawk though!

Obviously a bit of cost inflation going on by the BBC.

Either that or the fine PRO at Culdrose has succeeded in blowing it yet again.

I feel sorry for the lads who will be walking around the airfield for 3 weeks picking up MMMF fibres (very carefully). Obviously the cab rolled over.

Best wishes to the crew
 

Good to see they all survived, best wishes to them all. Here's wishing them a speedy return to flying.

Little bird tells me it threww a tail rotor blade on short finals:eek:

Not a good day for the Mighty Merlin
 

Appears to be rather a mess in the BBC picture - do we know if the aircraft rolled when it met with the ground?

Glad all concerned lived to tell the tell - indicates the strength of the airframe.

Best to let the boys from VL do their job before we all try and guess the cause although T/R failure does seem on everyone's lips - another Italian design!

Let's hope we see the Mighty Merlin flying soon!!

Glad to hear that everyone's safe.

Ditto the above sentiments.

Merlin Crash
 

ZH 844, a/c didn't roll on impact due to low hover height, as he was awaiting departure clearance. Very big relief to see the guys got out eventually, and a speedy recovery to those taken to Treliske. Thoughts are with families of all, and had a couple of light beverages in honour of the crews, Good work fellas :o )

Sod the cost, boys got out, can always buy another.

240 and below - I am told that a member of the crew had to be cut out - do you know which crew member?

At least this example had a EAS installed so that will give some data to aid the investigation.

:ugh:

ZH844 - RHS pilot had to be cut out. That pilot is "recovering" according to this mornings local news.

The three backseaters got out v quick, and were in the bar by 1700.

Glad to see the guys were OK

RF

Can anyone PM me with names if known?

Cheers

Rod Flow
What took them so long? In Cyprus the Lightning jock was standing in the bar, in a puddle of water, blanket over his shoulders and about 200 aircrew hanging on every word.

Not out of interest per ce but to ensure they could not be on the BOI. Then the Docs got him and whisked him off to hospital.

PN

We are talking RN hospitality here. The bar wasn't open til then!

RF

In the hover the half hub broke, separating one tail rotor blade, completely, quickly followed by two others, the aircraft did a 180 and crashed. The pilot went to shut down the engines, but realised it was a waste of time as they were in front of him!
Non-handler being patched up in hospital, the instrument panel banged up his leg, and the mission panel took out his shoulder.:ouch: Ground crew and rear crew very lucky to escape uninjured.
Was it the mayor of Nagasaki who said, "What the F*** was that?"

Interesting isn't it.

Quite a lot of money each.

One in the Sound of Raasay, one at Culdrose.

Some early aircraft, excluding the PP a/c, will never actually be mission capable.

Contract cost? Contract value? Not the same thing methinks...

When I worked at Westlands in the late eighties/early nineties they were retailing at £50m for a copy - still thats inflation for you:{ During its development it lost a couple of aircraft - I think it had a rather anoying habit of applying its rotor brake whilst in flight....My memory is a little vague but I seem to recall a crew of one prototype aircraft had to bail put, but sadly a second (I believe Italian) crew lost there lives due to this or a similar fault.
Still at the time I was involved with it a good aircraft, with a lot of potential, something I am sure the crews at Culdrose and Benson would go along with.

RichiePAO - your memory is almost right (unless mine is wrong). Italian crew that died were in PP2 when the rotor brake thing happened, at low level I believe. The crew that bailed out were in PP4 when the tail rotor pitch control rod broke near the bottom of the fin (up at about 15000'), forcing the tail rotor to max pitch (weight of rod hanging on hyd actuator). That one was over Somerset, a large area of Somerset by the time it stopped.

They do appear to be having more than their fair share of problems, and I have to agree with the lack of value for money comment. RN 1 springs to mind as never going to get to 'mission capable' status.

Having worked on several variants of the big bus, I too think it had potential, maybe it was just poorly executed (I don't mean by the actual workers, the ones I worked alongside were excellent, professional guys and gals), which is a real shame.

Glad to hear they all got out, even though not immediately.
Sounds like a concerning failure for the rest of the crews though.

A quick update. Post fleet check of I understand 42 aircraft; they all have the same fault. Ooooops!:ooh:

I guess the Mk 3s at Benson have the same problem. Have they been grounded?

Bootneck,

Isn't the first rule of accident investigation to NEVER jump at first conclusions.

If 44 aircraft have the same fault why did this not happen 4 years ago on an older aircraft.

I think as someone said before WAIT until the BOI/RNFSAIC have done ALL the investigation instead of jumping in with both feet.

By the way I am a Merlin Driver!

Agree to the above; all will be revealed.

"Most tested, most safe and best value for money helicopter in the world today" (c) Westlands.

Nonsense. Very glad they all got out though. Hope they all fly again soon.

:( Good to see Bootneck was standing alondside the rest of us watching it all happen (not) Evidently he must be on the BOI because he knows more than us giving statements. Just to put the record straight- everything is being considered - and we will find out idc. It is absolute B****cks and unhelpful to suggest anything else. Having flown the beast for the last 2 yrs and enjoyed every minute - most of my bethren will agree that we are anxious to find out the cause - get it fixed and get airborne again.

Air force grounds Cormorant copters


HALIFAX (CP) - Flight restrictions have again been placed on Canada's fleet of Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopters following the crash of a similar aircraft in Britain this week.

The air force said Thursday the Canadian helicopters will only be allowed to fly in emergencies until the tail rotors of each of the 15 aircraft can be inspected.

Lt.-Col. Charles Cue, commander of 413 Squadron in Greenwood, N.S., said the restrictions come following the crash of a Royal Navy Merlin helicopter on Tuesday.

Five people were injured in the crash in Britain.

It is believed the cause of the accident involved cracks in the aircraft's tail rotor.

Cue admitted cracks have been found in the same area on the Cormorants, but said they haven't caused any problems.

"We have had cracking in the tail rotor hub, but we check the hub on a daily basis," he said. "If we find a problem, we take the part off and put a new one on. So far, it hasn't been an issue."

He said the rotors on both the Cormorant and the Merlin are roughly the same.

It's the second time since the beginning of the year that the Cormorants have been placed under restrictions.

In February, concerns were raised about potential fuel leaks.

The Italian-built helicopters have already had problems with cracking windscreens and console brackets.

I too am a Merlin Driver, AND I saw the accident, but I believe it is pointless pontificating about what did or didn't happen, or how much the beast costs, or if any of the active fleet have any sort of defect. This fine NEW aircraft has a lot of potential and is certainly the best kerosene budgie I have flown but, unfortunately, its detractors now have even more ammunition to bitch about it.

Bootneck, please stop second guessing the AI/BOI (unless you really are on it - you seem to know more than them at present)

Fatman, I'll see you at the North Coast for 7 consecutive Check Test Flights.

Don't know who bootneck is and can't confirm all he says, but he is right about a half hub coming apart. Wether it was the cause is for the BOI to decide, but cracking half hubs is something wastelands were already aware of.

I reckon the chances of the US Marines buying the US101 to replace their S-65's for the presidential fleet now must be about..........zero.

Ditto....Ivors crowd are rubbing their hands/wallets with glee Im sure.

My only concern is that all are ok! Good luck chaps with the RnR, hope your all back in the saddle soonest.

FAA (Rtd)

S-65's?

Maybe there is a Presidential fleet we have never heard of?

Fatman, is what I wrote incorrect?
I don't think so.
Aviators live for the black arts of suspicion, suspense, scepticism and downright speculation. (Or have they all changed);)

Was what I said incorrect?
 

Bootie

"A quick update. Post fleet check of I understand 42 aircraft; they all have the same fault. Ooooops"

- lucky we stopped flying then or they would have all fallen out of the sky at the same time wouldn't they?!?

I think Fatman and many other Merlin operators (like myself) would just rather you weren't so f***in' direct while our comrade lies in hospital being "patched up" as you put it in an earlier post.

Speculation and opinion is fine. Unequivocal 'facts' may give rise to some ill feeling.

By the way, I hope the journo who said on TV that it was "pilot error" has a good lawyer.

Let's talk facts!
 

Right its time to talk facts about this incident!

So what are the facts? We don't know. A few saw it happen and a few have participated in the investigation.

Those that saw it happen would be stupid to discuss it in this forum and those who investigate it would be sacked if they discussed it.

The facts are as follows;

1) A Merlin HM1 has crashed.
2) Five crew survived.
3) The cause is not yet known.

The impact to the EH101 has yet to be realised. What you should all remember is that helicopters malfunction - it happens - we try to prevent it but sometimes we fail.

Re: The US101 - if the most important man in the world has to fly in a helicopter which one would you choose? The S-92: unproven, low operationg hours, etc or the EH101: 100 examples flying; two losses and all survived. Igor might tell you about survivability but wastelands can prove it! Take your pick!

Facts
 

Well said ZH844

Can I just say how refreshing parts of this thread have been.

The refreshing support of the operators from the SW of this fine aircraft have shone a bright light on a potentially very dark incident for the fleet.

I for one have been banging the drum about the Merlin since I started flying it in 2000.

Lets hope we get it back in the sky soonest so we can continue to prove the ignorant wrong.

I'm just anoyed not to be there instead of shining my butt in VB.

Oh, and by the way I hope whoever is talking to Bootneck, stops and keeps everything in house until we KNOW the cause.

:suspect:

Rod, your friend took my slot in theatre on Friday morning, I never felt happier knowing somebody else needed help more than I.
Melrin, the aircraft went through approx 180* and hit the deck, parts of the tail rotor detached. Is the truth to be avoided or covered up. Information from any accident can help the remaining crews. However there must be a speedy accurate flow; unfortunately this is invariably not the case in the services, hence the rumour mill.
It's not my intention to upset anyone, I'll leave Hoon to do that.