Here's one reason for the lack of basic kit in times of conflict:

When I left the RN ten years ago, I was hounded to the tune of a letter (now framed in my downstairs bog) asking for £78 for 'two items of lost flying clothing'

When I moved house recently I discovered full desert DPMs, never signed for in GW1 (feel very guilty about that, after seeing poors bug*ers without it last year) and several bits of Falklands gear, again, not signed for, but handed out willy nilly 'in theatre'.

It's no wonder the NAO find that the kit is 'lost', as it is never properly accounted for in the first place.

So, the fact I handed in green cape leather gloves, and not the white ones issued sixteen years previously attracts letters from the Captains Sec, but no body armour for a front line soldier is passed off as no big thing.

Of course, Tony Bliar can't sack Hoon over this, as he needs to be able to do that to save his own sorry @rse when Hutton reports.

I am soooooooooooooooooooooo glad I'm out. With senior officers of the calibre of Wratten, Day and there ilk running things, You guys have no top cover at all. Quite the reverse. As the Chinook fiasco shows, you are now their top cover.

If I was cataloging the various reports on the logistic part of op tellic in a Library having been in the logistic tail of the op. I would put them under fiction the various reports do not match the reality that many of us on the ground experienced. The Loggies of all corps and services worked flat out so the teeth could work but it was all hampered by to much kit arriving to quickly to allow a proper logistic op to be run.

Gordon Brown as well?
 

Of course Gordon Brown should accept some responsibility as well because of his abject failure to provide the cash in sufficient time for all troops to be issued with their personal equipment BEFORE they went into theatre. It's not to say that we didn't see it coming!

So at last someone sees that the problem lies with chain of command as well, and not just Hoon. Blair etc. I have said before it is the politicians that decide what you do BUT it is your own officers that decide how, with what etc. They are the one who decide on what kit. Yes (and I am as much against present government as the next) Brown holds the purse strings but does anyone seriously believe he will get involved in specifying what kit is to be bought or maintained? Stop the profligate spending by the senior ranks on self serving waste and then you can all have the kit you need to do the job. Why can you not question those idiotic decisions? Does not the system of redress still exist? It may not be the politically correct thing to do but when lives are at stake who the hell cares about correctness? Well of course those up for promoton may and to hell with their troops.

Rant over

Being overseas I have missed most of the UK reporting on this. However, I am disgusted by the smug and self satisfied attitude of Hoon. The ba$tard must go, together with the rest of Tony's Toadies.

Again it is symptomatic of gross underfunding in the UK military supply chain. Lack of basic kit, insufficient heavy lift aircraft to rapidly get the kit out to the front line, combined with inadequate management and distribution once the equipment arrives in theatre. The dry-run for GW2 (SSII) clearly highlighted a number of problem areas, but these were never acted upon.

Samantha Roberts deserves all our support, what an amazing lady.

BFB

BFB,

Agree with you, but can't help but think that there are a number of faceless individuals in the senior levels of the chain of command who also failed woefully in their responsibility to the men at the sharp end, who will escape this incident, and go on to continue ensuring that the cut costs, get a rank, mentality prospers. Hoon must bear ultimate responsibility, and go, as he surely will in the wake of the Hutton report, but unfortunately there are members of the armed forces who share his responsiblity and have failed one of their own. Hope they can watch Samantha Roberts from the comfort of their armchairs and live with themselves.:mad:

I seem to recall a PPRune debate some time ago, regarding the idea of the armed forces having some sort of trade union or federation representation. Many balked at the very notion, trotting out the usual 'political correctness gone mad'-type bluster.

On the subject of equipment inadequacies, Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Bartle (retd) writes, in Letters to the Editor, The Times (21 January 2004):

Sir, The recent lack of equipment in the Gulf will not surprise those connected with serving members of the Armed Forces.

As far back as the Falklands war soldiers had to buy kit because that supplied to them was inadequate for the job. The “yomping” Marines were able to make their epic march because they had purchased their own boots.

The Armed Forces have been ill-served by their political masters, yet they have no means of bringing their grievances to public attention. It has taken the courageous efforts of the widow of one of our soldiers to take the Government to task. This should not have been necessary.

We need an organisation similar to the Police Federation to represent Service personnel and bring grievances to public attention. When will the Government recognise that need?

Yours faithfully,
RICHARD BARTLE,
22 Fairthorne Way,
Shrivenham, Oxfordshire SN6 8EB.
January 16.

And what did Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Bartle (retd) do about it? Oh, sorry, of course he wrote to the Times. How brave of him.

Perhaps the braver option would have been to post a snide comment on an anonymous web forum. As for what he did about it while he was serving, who knows? Seeing he's not here to defend himself, the decent thing would be to give him the benefit of the doubt or, you could write to him and ask.

Well said Scud

I read the letter this morning and it added yet another fact to the list.
It has been said on the same letters pages that anyone who knew anyone in the forces knew that the kit was not in place – I just wonder how they thought that they would get away with lying about it when the press photographs showed front line troops in green gear and black boots.

SUL
I find myself agreeing with you, though not about PC which you have completely wrong. I had to swap a jersey heavy wool for a pair of US issued boots in order to complete the tasks, with load, required of me. Boots DMS with the cheese grater inserts were impossible to "yomp" any distance in without a load.
As for working hard, perhaps you would like to make some sugestions as to how Lt Col Bartle should conduct his campaign. I'm sure he would be grateful for your advice :rolleyes:

SUL - I take the point and unreservedly withdraw any aspersions on Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Bartle. You are correct in that I certainly know not what else he may have done. The fact is this thread is absolutely castigating the politicians and not the decision makers up the chain of command. How futile is this? Is everyone so afraid to criticise the higher ranks where it is quite probably justified. Who in MOD decides what equipment to buy? Who decides where to send it? Who decides to whom it will be allocated? Not Blair, Hoon and co. I am not defending the politicians in this but just trying to find some answers like everyone else. At what rank is it justified to say: "No sir, we cannot do this without XYZ. My men would be in too much unwarranted danger and incapable of completing the task with the level of equipment provided" Too simply put I know but I am sure you all see the point. As for suggestions for a campaign then why not go public with FACTS about where equipping problems lie. Several people have gone public in writing books that will earn them (they hope) a great deal in royalties but of course there would be little personal gain in such a story about equipment problems!

It's a shame that Iraq was/isn't blue and slightly cold as the new RAF blue 'wooly pullies' would be ideal (roll neck again!!!). How many flak jackets could you buy for the price of 50,000 new blue jumpers??

Working Hard
You have a point regarding politicians, however remember the phrase "the buck stops...." I wouldn't feel sorry for any of them.
PM heading your way
Regards
FEBA

Congratulations to Gerry Steinberg MP for cutting through the bull$hit during today's Commons Public Administration Committee questioning of the MOD Permanent Secretary and senior officers.

Mr Steinburg said to the Deputy Chief of Defence Staff, Lieutenant General Anthony Palmer (who was getting rather defensive about equipment inadequacies), "If I was a soldier being led by some of the hierarchy I see at this table, I would be bloody worried, to be quite honest."

(I wonder if the "bloody" will make it into tomorrow's Hansard.)

The question of the where someone takes a stand is a difficult one.. I remember once as a Crew Chief on the Navy's biggest squadron, having grounded an aircraft due to excessively worn bearings on the main rotor rotating scissors (There were no spares.. surprise!!), I was "TOLD" by a young lieutenant that they were ok and I should delete the entry in the 700c and enable the aircraft to meet its flypro.. he didn't even know what rotating scissors were. It was made clear to me that failure to do so would see me removed from my position. I called his pathetic little bluff and remained in the job, although I suspect that was due to manpower shortages, and no-one qualified to replace me!!

My point is, the forces still suffer from the "did you understand the order" syndrome, I do not tar all people in authority with the same brush, but sadly there are still enough people in the forces, in the position of hiding behind a rank, to do something to make themselves look good, but which have potentially dire consequences. Incidentally this is not a swipe at Steve Roberts superiors either.. although if the cap fits.....

2T

We could wear our new "Best Blue" complete with the inbound "Corporate" rucksack! All very nice!!!:rolleyes:

Another tri-wall for the loft on order for kit I'll never use. :mad:

There is a cracking article in today's The Scotsman online. It covers some interviews with the CO of the Black Watch and his Quartermaster. (I wonder how long it will take for them to be fired?). It proves the kit shortages were pretty widespread throughout the front line troops.

The MOD are "considering"issuing body armour as standard kit. Let's hope they take a bit less time then they have considering the AAR option.

Hope the link works....

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com

BFB

Does the fact that the BBC have apologised to Tony and his cronies mean that the Hoon ba$tard will not now be falling on his sword?

BFB