Buccaneer Low level
 

I remember growing up in the Welsh valleys as a child and watching streams of Jags, Vulcans, Phantoms and Buccaneers screaming up and down the valley at zero feet.

One thing I always wondered was just how quick a Bucc was on the deck - in the aviation mags of my youth the speed was always listed as "classified" or "highly subsonic" or "better than Mach 0.85".

Now the Bucc is sadly out of service perhaps someone could say just how quick could it go clean and how fast was it with 4 Sea Eagles under the wings?

Surely it can't still be classified?

had heard that on red flag the american aggressors couldn't track the Bucc at low level until they learnt to look for the dust trails.

The Buccaneer is one of my Favorite aircraft. Had to manually tue a TV the other night and had the old RAF recruiting video of Buccs deploying to Gibraltar with music by Vangelis on to give me a distinct programme for the video.

Once got a Bucc up to 605 kts but the limit in a pavespike fit was 540, due to deforming the underside of the wing, Boss read me my horoscope and otherwise no damage. 4 se fit was a similar ias limit, much better performer than a Tornado with 2. Flew both so can confirm the above.

I was refuelling my helicopter (VAS not qualified , what all that about then!!) when the last 2 Buccs "visited" Linton on Ouse, with one between hangar and tower I f.......g sha. myself and fuelled pi..ed out all over the place requiring a fire engine wash down. Would have enjoyed it if I knew it was coming, but didnt, and therefore got caught out large. Probably wasnt very fast, but made up for it in being very low and with lots of AOB on: Respect if the drivers are PPruners.

Duncan McC's correct(of course)-she would go very fast and 600kts was attainable but didn't turn too well.Collected the penultimate aircraft from H on S for 208 Sqn and the Waste of Space clean fit was" very impressive" said Ramjet my driver for the day.I didn't clock the actual max IAS on the long run back to Honington-busy completing the post manufacturers flight test and max speed required (from memory) was 540kts.By the time the RAF gingerbeers had "re-roled" the beast it never performed as well. Flew in the Warton tanker many years later and she went very fast,clean.

:ooh: :ooh: :ooh: Those were the days!

is the story of Bucc's flying under power lines in germany an urban myth?

Hi
Re- the Bucc going Low Level, There was some super film some years ago showing a Bucc on Red Flag, and the only way the Yanks could see him was by going outside from their radar shack and following the DUST TRAIL he was kicking up whilst he was nearing them, They don't get much lower than that and Not Land or Crash Land with wheels Up ????
:ok: :ok: :ouch:

There is a lot of good gen in Graham Pitchfork's book, 'The Buccaneers', published last year - apart from a photo of a very young SN - hmmm.

630KIAS rings a bell from my long distant past?

Back in the early 80s,1981 i think, as a very young liney doing his stuff out on the line, a very loud boom reverabated around Lossiemouth and the surrounding area. This was closely followed by a clean wing Buccaneer, on a post minor airtest,doing a very low and fast beat up,which must have started many miles out in the Moray Firth
Many years later ,much older and bolder liney doing his stuff on F3, in Q shed golf dispersal Akro. Glances up to see the whole end of the shed framing an equally low and fast Bucc , Which as it skims the roof causes 30 years worth of paint rust and bird poo to part company with the rafters. :ok: doesnt seem to happen much now in these noise sensitive times

Beagle

From which long and distant past would that be?

Remember being on Tain in the mid 80's clearing some ordanance. For some reason I was stood on top of the EOD van when a Bucc who thankfully had finished dropping live decided to do a final run. Bizarre seeing the TOP of the wing when he was S+L!!! I was like a rabbit caught in the headlights!

Many a time at Abingdon, Buccs were out on air test after maintenance & they came back f***ing low and fast to announce their arrival, really impressive..

Many moons ago was weekend loafing at Gibraltar with a Nimrod (Mk.1, the one that sort of worked...), plus a couple of Buccs (12 or 208). The Air Cdr decided he wanted a bit of aerial activity since Princess someone or other (one of the nice ones) was visiting. We got airborne for 4 hrs "training" (not worth putting your growbag on for anything less) and saline solution watching.
Came back and asked to hold at Bravo with our Bucc frinds, who had also gone "training" for something much less than 4 hrs. No.1 passed sometime doing barrel rolls round us.
No.1 then started his approach from the East, dumped his flaps, gear and hydraulics and called for the CHAG (errr, what....!!!). Apparently it was quite spectacular as he hauled "x" tons of anchor chain down the runway and the Met Office reported 20m vis in rust haze ...
Meanwhile, back at the ranch No.2 diverted to Tangiers, and we reported 20 min. endurance left to divert (ATC didn't believe we would actually run out of motion lotion). We filled up in Faro (not allowed to Tangier) and arrived back just in time to miss the Princess's cocktail party - she apparently had said that we shoudn't have gone to so much trouble just for her...
Saw Air Cdr on Monday morning, and he asked if we wouldn't mind "nipping' over to Tangiers on the way home to settle No.2's fuel bill with our carnet. "Errr, well there was a reason why we didn't go there on Saturday, sir.... perhaps the Adj can nip over on the ferry..."

i seem to remember in the dim and distant past the BBC doing a series 'fighter pilot' the one who completed fast jets went to buccaneers in germany as far as i remember.

Any piccies anyone of the Bucc LL ???


Nurse, the guys name - fictional?:confused: was John McCrea if memory serves.

Oggin

My favourite aircraft the Buc - got to taxi in one once. Amazed by the switches everywhere layout - very 50's. Great name, good lookes (to my twisted mind) and pretty competent too for its age. All the ingredients for a future classic.

Jeez, was that when we last had a proper airforce? Jag, Bucc, Phantom, Lightning, Tornado, Harrier and just retiring Vulcan... Hell, I am 29 and already its seems like a golden age. It'll be Tornado and Harrier only in 2 years time..!

Shame.

WWW

I vaguely remember being told that the max speed of the Buccaneer S2C and D was 630KIAS in RN service. That was when I was attempting to get through the totally dreadful organisation known as 237 OCU in 1976/7. Destructive criticism, thinly disguised hatred of students, this bunch of prima donnas managed to fly 100% of their allocated hours but only graduated 33% of their students....

I recall being subjected to a private aeros display by a pilot instructor including an attempted push up from the 45 deg point of a horizontal eight which nearly ended up as an inverted spin at low level...lots of buffet, no IAS and the negative G increasing. The RAF back seat staff crew members - I decline to refer to them as 'instructors' were without doubt the most unpleasant group of individuals it has ever been my misfortune to be associated with. However, most of the RN guys were much better - apart from a couple of utter poseurs....

No good memories of Bucc days; however, I will say that the professionalism of the 'firm but fair' hand of Bruce C*****e did teach us a lot.

Oh dear - where did that big chip come from?

reynoldsno1:

Princess Alexandra, 19 Jun 79

A fading Squadron Prints print of a 208 Squadron Bucc reminds me that I flew in one once. Great fun, fascinating role but just too frustrating. No chance for an over-enthusiastic, under-skilled journo/PPL to get his hands on one and see how it handled.

smartman - you weren't OC 12 then, were you?

I did like Bruce's comment "When you get used to the strength of this thing at low level, you start looking for things to ram!"

No chip - simply a comment on a thoroughly dreadful organisation. But I did hear that a lot of shaking up went on there a couple of years later....

ROGHEAD

Didn't know you were still alive. Taps at 1200 on Tuesday for the annual get together.

Regards,

BEagle, I know what you mean about the OCU, it was my intro to the RAF.

Bruce gave us groundcrew a hard time as well. On the long lead during a Fam1 you would often hear, "unplug, as what I am about to say is unsuitable for delicate ears" or words to that effect.

He did give me my first fast jet trip though, in one of our Hunters, now at Kemble I believe, the Hunter, not Bruce.

Would love to see the film again of the Buccs at Red Flag.

Is it available?

a good link for the Buccaneer is
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...eer/index.html

Did anyone serve on the Bucc dets that covered British Forces in Lebanon?

Beagle

Nope - wrong Smart!!

Thanks for clearing that up, chum!

Not the most popular boss of the Basil Brush outfit, was he?

Re. the Buccs at low level on Flag, you should have seen some of the 'private' Telford camera film from the strike sight which were shown behind locked doors. Ever seen the look on a prairie dog's face when it looks up at 540 knots of Bucc at ultra low level? I saw it on the film!!

An even better look was on the face of some of the guys in the backseats

BEagle, couldn't agree with you more. 237 OCU at that time was the pits. Fortunately didn't put me off flying and the Sqns proved to be a welcome relief and provided outstanding fun.
Sad thing was that too many of the OCU Staff believed they had a fighter and not the outstanding bomber that it was.


:ok: :ok: :ok: Keep smiling.

Maxburner check your personal mail.

can't remember the name but the F4 driver said the bucc was great at fighter evasion. 500+ on the deck, F4 creaming in behind, wing down 60 deg bank.

Quick as a flash Biggles would role his F4 and pull like a bastard. After about 20 deg look up for the shot. No Bucc.

Bastard still flying 500+ S&L but with 60 AOB. Got 'em every time.

PN absolutely right.We were great at evading which perhaps meant we could reach and hit our target.However we couldn't shoot anyone down.
Mind you we could get him in our 6, open the brakes and fill his intakes with the chaff taped within.
Notwithstanding that, fighter afill (or bomber afill if you were a real fighter) was great training for both camps and not without its fun.

I remember reading in Robert Prest's book on the F4 that he was exeeding peeved to being bounced by a couple of Bucks.

Sadly never got to fly the Bucc, but had a good look in the cockpit of one once - just South of LFA 9. However, I was at 100ft in a Gazelle coming round the side of a hill, when said beast came round the other way - underneath us! :uhoh:

PS For NURSE - I wasn't on the "Did anyone serve on the Bucc dets that covered British Forces in Lebanon?" - but we did take the press over on a Chinook so they could then film, photo and report on 'The First RAF Aircraft over Beirut'. Quite where they thought we came from I never did learn. But at least we bought some 'Beirut Rock' back for the detachment later (I think it came from a shell hole next to the University HLS).

There are loads of ex-Bucc chappies out there with gem-stories to tell. Each year there is an horrendous get-together of those aircrew who can be bothered to pitch-up, near the Tower of London, and imbibe. I forget the last one - even though it was only a coupla weeks ago! And the well-recalled Bruce was amongst them - amazingly he is PC non-literate (or so he claims), and is therefore unable to join our banter. I don't believe him ---

Oh - and roghead, why didn't you come?? Or did I miss you in my haze?

There are a few photos of RN Buccaneers from Ark & Eagle on my website, here . Click on "Gallery", there's one for the Bucc + one for the Phantom ;)

ROGHEAD

See your mail. MB

I did the Red Flag (Flatiron) when the bucc film of the wingtip duststorm was taken. Also the film of the Bucc flying over the caravan, where the last frame was the entire starboard intake filling the screen. They lost the vhf whip aerial from the caravan. 'Stipstream' they said; scratches on the leading edge said another...

Also, one enterprising nav used to unstrap en-route to the ex area and kneel on his bang seat - then he could be the eyes looking to the rear for the opposition. His view was that his chances of survival at LL were virtually zero, therefore it didn't really matter... Don't think his boss was overly impressed when it came to light.

Nurse,

Lebanon 1983/4. Still got the 'T' shirt - "Real men fly through Beirut not over it"! Probably the most exciting couple of minutes flying I have ever done (No 2 of the second pair around the city if anyone has the video). We set the Pave Spike to a fixed 2 degree depression and filmed the whole trip around the city. Got in the mire from the USN for flying under the bows of one of their boats on the way back to Akrotiri, and then again for being too low on the break into the circuit! Great fun!

As for speeds, I can get accurate numbers when I get back to work in the New Year, but from memory the clean aircraft limit was 580 KIAS/0.95M but with most stores, such as underwing tanks, was 560 KIAS/0.86M. However, I have seen 605 KIAS (even with underwing tanks on) and 0.96M in winter at Goose Bay (in my pre-tp days, of course!). At these speeds it did put monstrous loads on the ailerons and a few rivets often disappeared. Also, above about 550 KIAS directional stability was poor and the slip ball was firmly pegged on the stops. I never flew with 4 Sea Eagles, but with 4 Paveway LGBs on the wings you could comfortably maintain 550 KIAS in close formation and then through a 4g toss manoeuvre.


As for 237 OCU, by 1979 it was much better and I had a ball. There were some great guys there.

Overall, the Bucc was the best aeroplane that I have ever flown for high speed at low level, although you did leave a wake below about 40 feet! However, it also had the worst flying qualities of anything that I have experienced in the landing pattern. The F4 was considerably easier.

ROGHEAD, glad to see that you have popped up again. Will send you a PM.

Thanks for starting this thread - happy memories.

Makes you wonder how the guys that operated the Bucc from the heaving deck of a carrier managed!

I also recall reading a fascinating post some time ago (by BEagle I think) that described in some considerable detail all the various knobs and taps that had to be constantly adjusted to configure a Buccaneer for landing; mind-boggling.

Aaaah, that was the one, thank you smartman, can't find me logbook ... we were told we could attend the cocktail party in our growbags, but looking at southern portugese concrete was much more fun....:zzz:
So, which one were you in?