HMS ALBION commisioned
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HMS ALBION commisioned
Today at Devonport, the first of the two LPD(R)s, HMS Albion, was commisioned into the Royal Navy. I mention this on PPRuNe as she will carry/support helicopters as part of her role.
See http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/1998.html for details.
Whilst the LPD(R)s will provide a new level of amphibious capability, it does seem both regretable and absurd that we go the the expense of getting these ships for expeditionary capabilities, but at the same time the Government decide to scrap organic air defence for AT LEAST six years and possibly longer.....
See http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/1998.html for details.
Whilst the LPD(R)s will provide a new level of amphibious capability, it does seem both regretable and absurd that we go the the expense of getting these ships for expeditionary capabilities, but at the same time the Government decide to scrap organic air defence for AT LEAST six years and possibly longer.....
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Please WEBF for the love of god will you stop posting this sh*te on an aviation board. If you have to bore people silly with your worrying obsession about the sea harrier and all things tenuously related to it, could you please do so at warships1.com.
You are the sort of sad freak that the RNR has tried very hard to get rid of. I can imagine you must be really popular in the JR's mess - "oh quick guys, lets ignore those scantily clad women dressed like schoolgirls and lets all talk about the geopolitical ramifications of scrapping a plane". God I bet the lads at VIVID love you...
You are the sort of sad freak that the RNR has tried very hard to get rid of. I can imagine you must be really popular in the JR's mess - "oh quick guys, lets ignore those scantily clad women dressed like schoolgirls and lets all talk about the geopolitical ramifications of scrapping a plane". God I bet the lads at VIVID love you...
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Jimlad
Since ALBION will be very much part of the future of Amphibious Operations in the years to come and the Junglies recently took part in the biggest helo assault since Vietnam, I think the initial part of the post is a good start to what could be a long topic.
WEBF
Good post but...........drop the SHAR stuff - we have been f
d on the subject and only time will show the error.
This isn't a crab-only forum, as many would like to think, and aviation does take place over the sea as well as a way of getting from hotel to hotel. ALBION and BULWARK, and the promise and snags they will bring may make for far more interesting discussion than some of the banal and
topics that have graced these pages in the past. Reading about wearing flying suits in the supermarket or how the aircon didn't work in your tent might not be for everyone.
Since ALBION will be very much part of the future of Amphibious Operations in the years to come and the Junglies recently took part in the biggest helo assault since Vietnam, I think the initial part of the post is a good start to what could be a long topic.
WEBF
Good post but...........drop the SHAR stuff - we have been f
d on the subject and only time will show the error.This isn't a crab-only forum, as many would like to think, and aviation does take place over the sea as well as a way of getting from hotel to hotel. ALBION and BULWARK, and the promise and snags they will bring may make for far more interesting discussion than some of the banal and
topics that have graced these pages in the past. Reading about wearing flying suits in the supermarket or how the aircon didn't work in your tent might not be for everyone.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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JIMLAD I DEMAND YOU APOLOGISE TO WEBF!!!!!!!
Well over half the threads on this forum have tenuous links to aviation!!
You don't HAVE to contribute to a thread that you find irrelevant.
WEBF thanks for the link WHICH I found interesting!!
Well over half the threads on this forum have tenuous links to aviation!!
You don't HAVE to contribute to a thread that you find irrelevant.
WEBF thanks for the link WHICH I found interesting!!
WEBF - thank you for an interesting link.
However - it seems that you have a tendency to make some reference, direct or otherwise, to the SHAR's demise in everything you post (probably unfair, but it seems like it).
I'd say that about 95%-99% of people here concur with your view on the sense of doing away with the SHAR, but you aren't winning any friends by mentioning it at what seems to be every conceivable opportunity (and some which aren't conceivable...).
So, could you do us a favour - carry on posting the intersting links, chipping in with your 4 penn'orth here and there, making your points - but don't (please) mention the SHAR unless the thread is directly about either:
a) the SHAR
b) the FAA and organic air defence?
You see,
a) we've got the message, and got it ages ago; and
b) it makes you look like a single issue dullard, obscuring the fact that you have more to contribute to the site than just the one item.
However - it seems that you have a tendency to make some reference, direct or otherwise, to the SHAR's demise in everything you post (probably unfair, but it seems like it).
I'd say that about 95%-99% of people here concur with your view on the sense of doing away with the SHAR, but you aren't winning any friends by mentioning it at what seems to be every conceivable opportunity (and some which aren't conceivable...).
So, could you do us a favour - carry on posting the intersting links, chipping in with your 4 penn'orth here and there, making your points - but don't (please) mention the SHAR unless the thread is directly about either:
a) the SHAR
b) the FAA and organic air defence?
You see,
a) we've got the message, and got it ages ago; and
b) it makes you look like a single issue dullard, obscuring the fact that you have more to contribute to the site than just the one item.
Thread Starter
Archimedes
Fair cop. However, since Albion and Bulwark are designed for amphibious operations I thought that air defence was a relevent topic (cf Operation Corporate). Also the participtipation of the Sea Jet in FOST, JMCs, the war game in Oman in 2001 etc.
Being obessesive is one of my personality defects. However, I do consider it (the Sea Harrier deabate) relevent to threads about the CVF, the F35, the future of the FAA/RN. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I forgot to mention a couple of others points, like why doesn't the LPD(R) have a hangar? Also why is there no missile system?
Jimlad
Thanks for your kind words. Have you been missing your medication lately?
Or have I have I been missing mine?
Fair cop. However, since Albion and Bulwark are designed for amphibious operations I thought that air defence was a relevent topic (cf Operation Corporate). Also the participtipation of the Sea Jet in FOST, JMCs, the war game in Oman in 2001 etc.
Being obessesive is one of my personality defects. However, I do consider it (the Sea Harrier deabate) relevent to threads about the CVF, the F35, the future of the FAA/RN. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I forgot to mention a couple of others points, like why doesn't the LPD(R) have a hangar? Also why is there no missile system?
Jimlad
Thanks for your kind words. Have you been missing your medication lately?
Or have I have I been missing mine?
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 25th Jun 2003 at 20:32.
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WEBF
I'm afraid to say, for the same reasons we don't have most of the kit in the forces that we need. Lack of cash and those that hold the cash being ill or non advised at why we need a fg hangar or some defence!!
I forgot to mention a couple of others points, like why doesn't the LPD(R) have a hangar? Also why is there no missile system?
g hangar or some defence!!
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WEBF,
My guess concerning the hangar relates to the space available on the ship. The space available for a hangar on Albion would probably only be able to hold between 2 to 4 helicopters of medium ie. Seaking/Merlin size. In order for a beach assault to be at its most effective, the troops need to be moved ashore rapidly and in numbers, not easily achieved with such limited air assets.
It looks as if the designers/procurement have opted for a larger flight deck instead. As the ship is not designed to operate alone, the larger fligth deck would allow air assets from carriers/HMS Ocean to operate more efficiently and so 12 to 15 helicopters could easly form an aerial conveyor to rapidly move large quantities of troops or vehicles ashore. The larger flight deck also allows for more efficient vert. rep. and load lifting, again, meaning a faster operation. The most dangerous element of any beach landing is as the fully loaded LPDs near the beach and start to unload. Time spent in this dangerous area is thus minimised.
IMHO this idea of groups of warships is also the reason why Albion has no missile system. It does have a last ditch point defense system with goalkeeper which in fairness could have saved a lot of lives if we had it in the Falklands. It is not defenseless, but its primary role is not fleet air defense so it is reliant upon other ships for protection.
Just my thoughts,
Obs cop
My guess concerning the hangar relates to the space available on the ship. The space available for a hangar on Albion would probably only be able to hold between 2 to 4 helicopters of medium ie. Seaking/Merlin size. In order for a beach assault to be at its most effective, the troops need to be moved ashore rapidly and in numbers, not easily achieved with such limited air assets.
It looks as if the designers/procurement have opted for a larger flight deck instead. As the ship is not designed to operate alone, the larger fligth deck would allow air assets from carriers/HMS Ocean to operate more efficiently and so 12 to 15 helicopters could easly form an aerial conveyor to rapidly move large quantities of troops or vehicles ashore. The larger flight deck also allows for more efficient vert. rep. and load lifting, again, meaning a faster operation. The most dangerous element of any beach landing is as the fully loaded LPDs near the beach and start to unload. Time spent in this dangerous area is thus minimised.
IMHO this idea of groups of warships is also the reason why Albion has no missile system. It does have a last ditch point defense system with goalkeeper which in fairness could have saved a lot of lives if we had it in the Falklands. It is not defenseless, but its primary role is not fleet air defense so it is reliant upon other ships for protection.
Just my thoughts,
Obs cop
