Abingdons Alive still
Yes, Him
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I have a vague recollection that RAF Stations were named after the nearest railway station....
...seems logical seeing as so many have had the Beeching treatment.
...seems logical seeing as so many have had the Beeching treatment.
Champagne anyone...?
Ah......sunny Abingdon.
Many a liver died in the bar there when I was but a young London UAS stude starting out on the rocky road to alcoholic oblivion/glorious career as RAF aviator (one in the same really).
I would wax lyrical with tales of UAS derring do but sadly all I have are blurred memories of falling off mantlepieces, singing appalling songs under the guidance of NATOs smallest and drunkest CFI and being given expert instruction in all matters of aviation by a young(er) Mr BEagle whilst at the same time trying not to relaunch the 2 bottles of port from the previous night.
Ah......happy days. Or so I'm led to believe.....
Gainsey, I believe that was the case although "RAF Rio Gallegos" didn't last long as it was felt that "RAF Mount Pleasant" would be more diplomatically acceptable
Many a liver died in the bar there when I was but a young London UAS stude starting out on the rocky road to alcoholic oblivion/glorious career as RAF aviator (one in the same really).
I would wax lyrical with tales of UAS derring do but sadly all I have are blurred memories of falling off mantlepieces, singing appalling songs under the guidance of NATOs smallest and drunkest CFI and being given expert instruction in all matters of aviation by a young(er) Mr BEagle whilst at the same time trying not to relaunch the 2 bottles of port from the previous night.
Ah......happy days. Or so I'm led to believe.....
Gainsey, I believe that was the case although "RAF Rio Gallegos" didn't last long as it was felt that "RAF Mount Pleasant" would be more diplomatically acceptable
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Ah yes the Army Air Corps problem. Well that's a simple one to answer. As you well know there are 7 Army Air Corps Regiments in the present ORBAT.
1 Regt AAC Princes Royal Barracks Gutersloh
2 (Trg) Regt AAC AAC Middle Wallop
3 Regt AAC AAC Wattisham
4 Regt AAC AAC Wattisham
5 Regt AAC RAF Aldergrove
7 (V) Regt AAC Netheravon Camp
9 Regt AAC AAC Dishforth
These regiments are based as above. Now the excpetions to the rule are obviously 1 Regt due to being in Germany and 5 Regt due to sharing with 230 Grrrr and 72 Sqns if they are still there (I believe they have departed now). Netheravon well that was called camp after the fact that the Glider Pilot Regt formed their for their parts in Market Garden and I believe Overlord and there were so many people that they had to form a tented camp their prior to deployment.
As for why the British AAC regiments are named after thier geographical locations well as providers of JET A1 to all rotary be it Green, Navy or light blue they need to be easily found by those who haven't been touched by CMSR or RMAS as such, and as explained in last post they need to be able to be found by you.
Further as the AAC is relatively new to Army Orbat (not as an organization but as independent regiments with their own 'sole owner' barracks) they found themsleves since 1969 and 1990 SDRs having to occupy ex RAF bases where the infrastructure was already in place.
Due to this infrastructure already being in place the nav aids and ATS aids were already listed and placed on aeronautical charts and listed in AIPs worldwide.
Thus we thought that to change the name of these stations would confuse not only the RAF but also GA who also use the aids.
As for the RE at Waterbeach well Sappers have always done their own thing haven't they. I mean if you go around the battlefield firing rocket propelled explosive hoses, with a few tonnes of C4, in named after your old man, then people will probably let you call your barracks whatever you want
Hope this explains
1 Regt AAC Princes Royal Barracks Gutersloh
2 (Trg) Regt AAC AAC Middle Wallop
3 Regt AAC AAC Wattisham
4 Regt AAC AAC Wattisham
5 Regt AAC RAF Aldergrove
7 (V) Regt AAC Netheravon Camp
9 Regt AAC AAC Dishforth
These regiments are based as above. Now the excpetions to the rule are obviously 1 Regt due to being in Germany and 5 Regt due to sharing with 230 Grrrr and 72 Sqns if they are still there (I believe they have departed now). Netheravon well that was called camp after the fact that the Glider Pilot Regt formed their for their parts in Market Garden and I believe Overlord and there were so many people that they had to form a tented camp their prior to deployment.
As for why the British AAC regiments are named after thier geographical locations well as providers of JET A1 to all rotary be it Green, Navy or light blue they need to be easily found by those who haven't been touched by CMSR or RMAS as such, and as explained in last post they need to be able to be found by you.
Further as the AAC is relatively new to Army Orbat (not as an organization but as independent regiments with their own 'sole owner' barracks) they found themsleves since 1969 and 1990 SDRs having to occupy ex RAF bases where the infrastructure was already in place.
Due to this infrastructure already being in place the nav aids and ATS aids were already listed and placed on aeronautical charts and listed in AIPs worldwide.
Thus we thought that to change the name of these stations would confuse not only the RAF but also GA who also use the aids.
As for the RE at Waterbeach well Sappers have always done their own thing haven't they. I mean if you go around the battlefield firing rocket propelled explosive hoses, with a few tonnes of C4, in named after your old man, then people will probably let you call your barracks whatever you want
Hope this explains
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Stoppers, like it!
Someone once told me that the Italian base, Gioa di Colle translates roughly as Mount Pleasant, can't vouch for that as my knowledge of Italian is limited to ordering pizza. Anyway both are dumps. You still in the sandpit?
Someone once told me that the Italian base, Gioa di Colle translates roughly as Mount Pleasant, can't vouch for that as my knowledge of Italian is limited to ordering pizza. Anyway both are dumps. You still in the sandpit?
Ah yes, dear Stoppers! Abingdon was indeed a glorious era when you were but a lad! The smallest, smelliest and drunkest CFI in NATO, the delightful Boss Hog in charge and the rest of the gang much enjoyed attempting to teach you the delights of aviation!
But not a wise move on Fridays after you'd been on the pop (Timmy specials) all Thursday night at THQ! You were always destined to be a truckie, I guess, due to your dislike of 'aero-bation' as you decribed aeros!
Incidentally, do the dung-eaters still call MPA 'Mount Pleasant Camp' rather than RAF Mount Pleasant? "Jacket and tie after 1900 in Mess if you don't mind, old man - our wedgiment does have standards" Who's that supposed to impress - the bleeding penguins?
Prefer "Base Aerea Gringo, Islas Malvinas" myself.
....and remember the Aerolineas Argentinas spoof we played on the Tic-Toc? Twenty Five to Three didn't appreciate the joke!
But not a wise move on Fridays after you'd been on the pop (Timmy specials) all Thursday night at THQ! You were always destined to be a truckie, I guess, due to your dislike of 'aero-bation' as you decribed aeros!
Incidentally, do the dung-eaters still call MPA 'Mount Pleasant Camp' rather than RAF Mount Pleasant? "Jacket and tie after 1900 in Mess if you don't mind, old man - our wedgiment does have standards" Who's that supposed to impress - the bleeding penguins?
Prefer "Base Aerea Gringo, Islas Malvinas" myself.
....and remember the Aerolineas Argentinas spoof we played on the Tic-Toc? Twenty Five to Three didn't appreciate the joke!
BUT...........................
Dear Vortex Rinky Dinky Thingy
They are NOT called AAC Wattisham and AAC Dishforth, are they, no! They are Called Wattsham Airfield and Dishforth Airfield.
Gutersloh went from RAF Gutersloh to Princess Royal barracks because the AAC only use a damp dirty corner, ordinary brown jobs people the rest.
Does anyone call Middle Wallop anything?
Netheravon Camp? Hhmmm....................
Why don't these places have nice stirring titles named after the great and the dead?
Dear Vortex Rinky Dinky Thingy
They are NOT called AAC Wattisham and AAC Dishforth, are they, no! They are Called Wattsham Airfield and Dishforth Airfield.
Gutersloh went from RAF Gutersloh to Princess Royal barracks because the AAC only use a damp dirty corner, ordinary brown jobs people the rest.
Does anyone call Middle Wallop anything?
Netheravon Camp? Hhmmm....................
Why don't these places have nice stirring titles named after the great and the dead?
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Compulsory DJs I say
Beags,
You say 'who are standards meant to impress'. Well they aren't meant to impress anyone. My understanding was that they are meant to continue to support the values and standards of the very fabric of our service so that we can indeed hold our heads higher than Joe Public. Because if we are not different from everyone else with a morally higher code then should we really be charged with the ability to dispense lethal force and /or keep the peace across the world.
Maybe we should just have an all ranks cookhouse, that would give the guys something to aspire to.
Knowing that some day they can go absolutely nowhere different.
Knowing that all they get is more pay (not a lot more) but shed loads more responsibility but really we are all the same people from the same background. Maybe in crabland.
We don't work at Microsoft we have all taken the Queens or Kings shilling and as such have asked to be counted as different and have differing standards. Personally It should be compulsory to wear a suit not just shirt, jacket and tie, at all time in all public room except at weekends when hunting or country attire should be allowable. Further there should be Black tie every thursday and mess kit for every function.
Those who just want to get what they want but want to put nothing into it are just civvies in uniform. You take the job these are the rules.
Oh and one for prOOne. I have just explained the reason why we didn't change the name of the AAC stations and further yes they are called AAC X or maybe we have just got all the letterheads wrong and the COs doesn't actually know the address of the barracks that he commands.
Come on
You say 'who are standards meant to impress'. Well they aren't meant to impress anyone. My understanding was that they are meant to continue to support the values and standards of the very fabric of our service so that we can indeed hold our heads higher than Joe Public. Because if we are not different from everyone else with a morally higher code then should we really be charged with the ability to dispense lethal force and /or keep the peace across the world.
Maybe we should just have an all ranks cookhouse, that would give the guys something to aspire to.
Knowing that some day they can go absolutely nowhere different.
Knowing that all they get is more pay (not a lot more) but shed loads more responsibility but really we are all the same people from the same background. Maybe in crabland.
We don't work at Microsoft we have all taken the Queens or Kings shilling and as such have asked to be counted as different and have differing standards. Personally It should be compulsory to wear a suit not just shirt, jacket and tie, at all time in all public room except at weekends when hunting or country attire should be allowable. Further there should be Black tie every thursday and mess kit for every function.
Those who just want to get what they want but want to put nothing into it are just civvies in uniform. You take the job these are the rules.
Oh and one for prOOne. I have just explained the reason why we didn't change the name of the AAC stations and further yes they are called AAC X or maybe we have just got all the letterheads wrong and the COs doesn't actually know the address of the barracks that he commands.
Come on
Good grief!
...and I suppose that you have the local peasants run about so that you can practise your pig-stickin' skills as well?
If you want to dwess up in your umpty-umpth Queen's own chinless pwancers' Quality Street kit, feel fwee. We Crabs will probably mistake you for either an Argentinian bandmaster, king of an obscure corner of Africa - or the doorman! But do you seriously expect people to dress up in the DeathStar at Base Aerea Gringo as though they were in m' club in Town? What's wrong with smart casual.
Do you really go a-fox-murderin'? What do they taste like? Yoiks, hulloooo - there's another of the hen killin' villains - tally ho!!
...and I suppose that you have the local peasants run about so that you can practise your pig-stickin' skills as well?
If you want to dwess up in your umpty-umpth Queen's own chinless pwancers' Quality Street kit, feel fwee. We Crabs will probably mistake you for either an Argentinian bandmaster, king of an obscure corner of Africa - or the doorman!
But do you seriously expect people to dress up in the DeathStar at Base Aerea Gringo as though they were in m' club in Town? What's wrong with smart casual.Do you really go a-fox-murderin'? What do they taste like? Yoiks, hulloooo - there's another of the hen killin' villains - tally ho!!
Last edited by BEagle; 31st May 2003 at 02:14.
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March Ridge
Back in 1982, during the Falklands conflict but before white mens' feet had been planted on the beach at San Carlos, there was a meeting of three wise men in a large disused attic in the Old War Office Building in Whitehall. A map of East Falkland, to the largest scale obtainable from OS, was spread out on the floor. The three were a Sapper Colonel, who had started out as a member of the old RAF Airfield Construction Branch, a young Sapper Major, who was a real civil engineering whizz, and myself armed with all the civil criteria, in terms of terrain clearances on approaches, pavement strengths etc. and with Met statistics from Bracknell. It had been agreed after a long tussle with the RAF (who thought they were going to have to pay for it) that it would be quicker and cheaper to develop a new strategic airfield (which Maggie had ordained) than to try to extend and strengthen the Port Stanley strip while operations were in progress. Our task was to select the six most promising sites to which a Sapper survey team would be dispatched once the Argies had been kicked out. Civil criteria were used because it was forseen that civil aircraft would be used for rapid reinforcement operations and for tourism.
And so it came to pass. The "first choice" site, closest to Port Stanley, close to a potential deep water anchorage for tankers and supply, and where the peat was not too boggy along a suitable runway alignment, lay along a feature shown on the OS map as "March Ridge". And so the airfield and barracks complex, was called March Ridge all through the surveys and design phase by the Engineer-in-Chief and the Hydrographer General. The original concept was for the Sappers to build it, but they wisely decided that it was too big a job for their resources. So a civilian consortium was put together and the Sappers dropped out of the project. At some time after that it was renamed, presumably by the Air Staff, RAF Mount Pleasant. Sounded sexier, I suppose, and no snide references to the "March Hare".
And so it came to pass. The "first choice" site, closest to Port Stanley, close to a potential deep water anchorage for tankers and supply, and where the peat was not too boggy along a suitable runway alignment, lay along a feature shown on the OS map as "March Ridge". And so the airfield and barracks complex, was called March Ridge all through the surveys and design phase by the Engineer-in-Chief and the Hydrographer General. The original concept was for the Sappers to build it, but they wisely decided that it was too big a job for their resources. So a civilian consortium was put together and the Sappers dropped out of the project. At some time after that it was renamed, presumably by the Air Staff, RAF Mount Pleasant. Sounded sexier, I suppose, and no snide references to the "March Hare".
And which of the 3 wise men cocked up the rainfall figures? As a result of being given the annual rainfall figure in response to their request for the monthly one, the road from Base Aerea Gringo to Stanley has some really impressive monsoon drains some 12 times the required size!
Or was that just an early example of being 'Bennied'?
Or was that just an early example of being 'Bennied'?
Avoid imitations
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Vortex watsit,
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to have an airfield marked on aviation charts with the original and well-known name "Abingdon" but then to place a NOTAM request for pilots to avoid the place but calling it "Dalton Barracks, Oxfordshire" instead.
The point I was making, which you perhaps couldn't see, was that pilots planning a flight do NOT know (or even care) where a barracks is. I for one am not in the habit of making a ground recce of my proposed route before I fly it.....
Call 'em what you like for Landrovers and tanks.
And yes, I know the lat and long are there but it's far better to make it obvious what the requested avoid actually is based on. And then we can all jump to the dozens of other important NOTAMS warning about birds of prey that might be flying to and from kites etc.
With regard to the naming of RAF stations by the nearest railway station. They had to break the tradition with RAF Odiham; the nearest one is HOOK station.
Can we say RAF HOOK?
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to have an airfield marked on aviation charts with the original and well-known name "Abingdon" but then to place a NOTAM request for pilots to avoid the place but calling it "Dalton Barracks, Oxfordshire" instead.
The point I was making, which you perhaps couldn't see, was that pilots planning a flight do NOT know (or even care) where a barracks is. I for one am not in the habit of making a ground recce of my proposed route before I fly it.....
Call 'em what you like for Landrovers and tanks.
And yes, I know the lat and long are there but it's far better to make it obvious what the requested avoid actually is based on. And then we can all jump to the dozens of other important NOTAMS warning about birds of prey that might be flying to and from kites etc.
With regard to the naming of RAF stations by the nearest railway station. They had to break the tradition with RAF Odiham; the nearest one is HOOK station.
Can we say RAF HOOK?
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Civilian Jet
Hello Chinchilla.612 & Neil
The civilian business jet that landed at Abingdon was a Citation Excel, VP-CNM owned by Mr Nigel Mansell.
Landed on rwy 18 at 08.26hrs on 22.04.00.
I was shocked because I was exercising my dog on the airfield at the time.
ABN 99
The civilian business jet that landed at Abingdon was a Citation Excel, VP-CNM owned by Mr Nigel Mansell.
Landed on rwy 18 at 08.26hrs on 22.04.00.
I was shocked because I was exercising my dog on the airfield at the time.
ABN 99
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Vortex W,
"And this is our fault how".
Chips with everything? I addressed my request to the organiser of the airshow in a light hearted way. I didn't actually say who's fault it was, so you can put your safety catch back on.
I did ring the AIS number on one occasion to point out the discrepancy but the chap I spoke to said he only published what he was asked. Next time a similar NOTAM was issued it still said Dalton Barracks.
This thread has now possibly holds the PPRuNe record for having gone furthest off topic. Must go now, I just got another exciting encyclopedia of army history for my birthday and I can't wait to read it.
"And this is our fault how".
Chips with everything? I addressed my request to the organiser of the airshow in a light hearted way. I didn't actually say who's fault it was, so you can put your safety catch back on.
I did ring the AIS number on one occasion to point out the discrepancy but the chap I spoke to said he only published what he was asked. Next time a similar NOTAM was issued it still said Dalton Barracks.
This thread has now possibly holds the PPRuNe record for having gone furthest off topic. Must go now, I just got another exciting encyclopedia of army history for my birthday and I can't wait to read it.
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Interesting reading all your comments re why is it named this & that.
I know for my Abingdon Fayre events (the mini airshow / Country Fayre event) i put "Abingdon Airfield" on the Sheets i send into AUS although i do recollect very recently on a mil chart at Benson seeing Abingdon also marked as Dalton Barracks.
Anyone who owns a nice plane by the way and wishes to fly into Abingdon for my Abingdon Fayre on 2 May 2004, e-mail me, always on the lookout for nice & interesting aircraft types, but remember it PPR only so if you don't get in touch, you aint coming!!!
E-mail: [email protected]
I know for my Abingdon Fayre events (the mini airshow / Country Fayre event) i put "Abingdon Airfield" on the Sheets i send into AUS although i do recollect very recently on a mil chart at Benson seeing Abingdon also marked as Dalton Barracks.
Anyone who owns a nice plane by the way and wishes to fly into Abingdon for my Abingdon Fayre on 2 May 2004, e-mail me, always on the lookout for nice & interesting aircraft types, but remember it PPR only so if you don't get in touch, you aint coming!!!
E-mail: [email protected]
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To any ex Abingdon Flying Squadrons and units ie; 47sqn, Oxford & London UAS, 6 AEF, 1 PTS, Jag major servicing flight,Hawk Major servicing flight, Aircraft Salvage & Transportation Flight, Repair & Salvage Squadron, 1 PTS, JATE, Exhibition flight - if any of these units wish to display what they do ie: by means of an aircraft, display stand etc - please get in touch late 2003/ early 2004 to be part of the 5th annual Abingdon Fayre Charity event at the airfield (web address on page 1 or contact: [email protected]), we would dearly love to have back a contribution from any of the above units that were here in the RAF days.
Many thanks...
Many thanks...
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Ok, enough of the why is this & that is named this & that thanks people, maybe why not start another topic on it as i am trying to get proper info on Abingdon, after all hence the original first post on it.