A10 strikes again
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Quick replies..danny, I'll respond to the Challenger issue when I have more time.
Draper:
They had the "colour of the day" smoke marker which is what we were referring to and which does exactly what you describe.
Warthog:
I have a number of questions for you, but I don't have enough time to go through them. One question of importance though, is it still the case that A10 drivers are not given any significant NATO AFV recognition tuition and examination?
Draper:
They had the "colour of the day" smoke marker which is what we were referring to and which does exactly what you describe.
Warthog:
I have a number of questions for you, but I don't have enough time to go through them. One question of importance though, is it still the case that A10 drivers are not given any significant NATO AFV recognition tuition and examination?
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Ratherbeflying
RBF - I'd say a SAM rather than an antitank might scare him even more... is Starstreak the standard SAM used by HM ground forces?
If this keeps up, some desperate Brit might just hose off a Milan. It would definitely throw off the Warthog driver's aim.
MD -- If somebody's flying towards you with what looks like malevolent intent, you might just grab whatever's closest.
Now if the rocket smoke was the color of the day, he might get the message -- if not, you could aim closer with the second round.
If it can stop a tank...
Now if the rocket smoke was the color of the day, he might get the message -- if not, you could aim closer with the second round.
If it can stop a tank...
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Wouldn't it be possible to come up with an IFF responding to laser ranging? I'm thinking about the MILES combat simulator technology, that could perhaps be adapted for these kind of operations. It would not be 100% foolproof, but as a lot of direct fire weapons use laser ranging, it might just prevent more casualties.
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kbf1--
Remember, I've been a civilian (Ptooie!) for nearly 10 years now. I can't answer your question about current armor recognition training for US (or any other) pilots. In my day, there was armor recognition training (and aircraft regognition training and SAM site recognition training), but the emphasis was on bad guy equipment.
To be fair, it's one thing to identify a vehicle through a pair of binocs when you're stationary on the ground; quite another to perform the same task at 100 feet, 350 knots (or much more, depending on which noble steed you're riding).
The idea that a 12" X 18" Union Jack is recognizable under the same conditions is ludicrous (remember trying to read that number plate across the parking lot during your driving test?). The smoke color of the day is a different story and should do the trick. Why didn't it?? I'll reserve judgement until the investigation's complete.
Remember, I've been a civilian (Ptooie!) for nearly 10 years now. I can't answer your question about current armor recognition training for US (or any other) pilots. In my day, there was armor recognition training (and aircraft regognition training and SAM site recognition training), but the emphasis was on bad guy equipment.
To be fair, it's one thing to identify a vehicle through a pair of binocs when you're stationary on the ground; quite another to perform the same task at 100 feet, 350 knots (or much more, depending on which noble steed you're riding).
The idea that a 12" X 18" Union Jack is recognizable under the same conditions is ludicrous (remember trying to read that number plate across the parking lot during your driving test?). The smoke color of the day is a different story and should do the trick. Why didn't it?? I'll reserve judgement until the investigation's complete.
I'm a US civilian airline pilot.
I have tend to wonder if my former military co-workers spent much time in the recognition training room.
In the 1990's as a Flight Engineer on the 727 I was somewhat suprised the former F15 driver, now First officer, ask what type of business jet was off to the right. It was midsize type like a Hawker. It suprised me that a guys who job was to intercept possibly anything didn't have a clue what the jet was.
If I remember right, he said while they spent alot of time on ID-ing Mig29s, anything else was ignored.
It wasn't a suprise to me later when the Blackhawk was blasted by an F15 in Northern Iraq.
I'll let the more informed make a call in the air vs. armor debate.
I have tend to wonder if my former military co-workers spent much time in the recognition training room.
In the 1990's as a Flight Engineer on the 727 I was somewhat suprised the former F15 driver, now First officer, ask what type of business jet was off to the right. It was midsize type like a Hawker. It suprised me that a guys who job was to intercept possibly anything didn't have a clue what the jet was.
If I remember right, he said while they spent alot of time on ID-ing Mig29s, anything else was ignored.
It wasn't a suprise to me later when the Blackhawk was blasted by an F15 in Northern Iraq.
I'll let the more informed make a call in the air vs. armor debate.
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Thought I'd share a little something. It strikes me that the British take the time to think about what they are looking at.
Experts with newscaster on CNN 24th March.
3 yank experts including a former 2-star general from delta force, 1 ex SAS and the network's anchor.
Footage of iraqis giving themselves up.
anchor: We have no verification as of yet if they are british or
american troops taking these POW's
yank 1: Only americans wear boots like that, they're american
yank 2: I agree, and they appear to have american camouflage jackets.
yank 3 (delta force bloke): I'm not so sure, there's not enough
up-close detail to tell 100%, we'd need some close images to tell make of boots and jackets and maybe the shape of their kevlar headgear.
Ex SAS man: Call yourselves experts? Since when did US forces use an SA80 as a standard issue rifle? Their DPM's can be bought, as can the boots so you're chasing rainbows if you want to identify them from their clothes.
anchor: I think you're right.
Ex SAS man: Course I'm bloody right. Any one with half a brain and basic military training worth their salt should be able to identify a British soldier by his rifle. Not to mention the fact they're covering all points properly, not shouting "woo yeah" randomly, and haven't raised a flag in direct contravention with orders.
At this point 1 of the yanks walks off stage tearing his mic off, and the anchor says "I think we can safely say the soldiers on your screen are British. Now for these messages".
Fade to ad break!
Experts with newscaster on CNN 24th March.
3 yank experts including a former 2-star general from delta force, 1 ex SAS and the network's anchor.
Footage of iraqis giving themselves up.
anchor: We have no verification as of yet if they are british or
american troops taking these POW's
yank 1: Only americans wear boots like that, they're american
yank 2: I agree, and they appear to have american camouflage jackets.
yank 3 (delta force bloke): I'm not so sure, there's not enough
up-close detail to tell 100%, we'd need some close images to tell make of boots and jackets and maybe the shape of their kevlar headgear.
Ex SAS man: Call yourselves experts? Since when did US forces use an SA80 as a standard issue rifle? Their DPM's can be bought, as can the boots so you're chasing rainbows if you want to identify them from their clothes.
anchor: I think you're right.
Ex SAS man: Course I'm bloody right. Any one with half a brain and basic military training worth their salt should be able to identify a British soldier by his rifle. Not to mention the fact they're covering all points properly, not shouting "woo yeah" randomly, and haven't raised a flag in direct contravention with orders.
At this point 1 of the yanks walks off stage tearing his mic off, and the anchor says "I think we can safely say the soldiers on your screen are British. Now for these messages".
Fade to ad break!
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N Van Driver
How I wish I had seen that, it sounds brilliant!
During Gulf War 1. I was at an American patriot battery. We had gone out to where the US soldiers had set up perimeter defences with stingers. We had been dropped off in two Puma's. A US Colonel in charge of this airdefence setup came over and said 'Hey did you guys come in, in the pink Hips!'
As the Hip was part of the Iraqi Air Force inventory and was definitly 'meat' to be shot down by Stinger operators, we were more than slightly alarmed these guys couldn't tell the difference between a Brit Puma and a Hip.
How I wish I had seen that, it sounds brilliant!
During Gulf War 1. I was at an American patriot battery. We had gone out to where the US soldiers had set up perimeter defences with stingers. We had been dropped off in two Puma's. A US Colonel in charge of this airdefence setup came over and said 'Hey did you guys come in, in the pink Hips!'
As the Hip was part of the Iraqi Air Force inventory and was definitly 'meat' to be shot down by Stinger operators, we were more than slightly alarmed these guys couldn't tell the difference between a Brit Puma and a Hip.
