Who is Flt Lt Pprune?
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Who is Flt Lt Pprune?
I recently noticed that the mil forum has a moderator.
I do not wish to re-visit previous forums arguing either way whether the mil forum of pprune needs a moderator, but now that we apparently have one, who is he.
should he be a pilot officer or an AVM ??? why Flt Lt??
I accept that the owners of PPRUNE may be under some legal pressure at times [particularly with issues on the Mil forum & down under godzone - worth a visit]
If we are being moderated [and believe you me, I'm not really concerend], I would like to know his creds...
are there any other threads here that discuss this point?
edited to spell correctly........sorry....
I do not wish to re-visit previous forums arguing either way whether the mil forum of pprune needs a moderator, but now that we apparently have one, who is he.
should he be a pilot officer or an AVM ??? why Flt Lt??
I accept that the owners of PPRUNE may be under some legal pressure at times [particularly with issues on the Mil forum & down under godzone - worth a visit]
If we are being moderated [and believe you me, I'm not really concerend], I would like to know his creds...
are there any other threads here that discuss this point?
edited to spell correctly........sorry....
His action so far seems to have been limited to shutting down an innocuous thread about the French. But quite why a moderator has been imposed on us is beyond me. Mil forum has generally worked well without one IMHO, using visiting mods from other fora when absolutely needed.
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Shhhhh its a seeecwet!
Perhaps as the coalition forces prepare for possible war in the Middle East the MoD, which is of British blood I believe, have said to PPRUNE " trim up the banter and trade secrets chaps we are about to go to war....Pip Pip and all that good poop!!"
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A damned imposter! No-one with a surname like that could possibly be other than a Pilot Officer. Preposterous!!! Its a tradition dontcha know!! 
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I don't mind a moderator as we're pretty good at self-moderating so he shouldn't be too busy. But I just checked his profile and it doesn't say that he is military. Can Flt Lt Pprune confirm it.
Also...... who is going to write his annual report and who will sit on the promotion board? Any volunteers for 1st Reporting Officer?
Also...... who is going to write his annual report and who will sit on the promotion board? Any volunteers for 1st Reporting Officer?
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Present events mean that the Mil Forum has gained considerably greater interest than usual. In the light of this, simply keeping an eye on the forum has had to be reconsidered. Just as it is with each of you, our moderators' anonymity is also very important to us. The placing of that apostrophe is significant: Your moderator is actually more than one person to ensure a both a reasonable level of coverage for us and genuine, long term experience throughout all aspects of military aviation for you.
Your moderators are long time PPRuNers, either serving now or recently serving as military pilots. They are supporters of the traditional 'hands off' approach here but, having all seen active service during conflicts, understand that the site may, on occasion, have to act quickly rather than in reaction to your normal warning letters and notes to us at the Towers.
In every case your moderators have/had never succumbed to the giddy lure of Staff Colleges and advancement and utterly believe in the voice this forum gives to your experiences and views.
Further, this doesn't yet represent a permanent change to the way the forum is run and we will be asking for your thoughts and reactions at a time when you can consider the principles involved rather than short term concerns forefront at the moment.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd "
Your moderators are long time PPRuNers, either serving now or recently serving as military pilots. They are supporters of the traditional 'hands off' approach here but, having all seen active service during conflicts, understand that the site may, on occasion, have to act quickly rather than in reaction to your normal warning letters and notes to us at the Towers.
In every case your moderators have/had never succumbed to the giddy lure of Staff Colleges and advancement and utterly believe in the voice this forum gives to your experiences and views.
Further, this doesn't yet represent a permanent change to the way the forum is run and we will be asking for your thoughts and reactions at a time when you can consider the principles involved rather than short term concerns forefront at the moment.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd "
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I guess the FLTLT rank does clear him of the "Bograt" stakes....but in some cases only just, after all some of the definitions of a bograt provided recently on this forum are reasonably accurate account of those JO days......God I miss them!
Rob Lloyd.
So why was the French thread removed rather than merged or whatever? Perhaps this thread should remain as one in which these anonymous mods can justify their actions?
So why was the French thread removed rather than merged or whatever? Perhaps this thread should remain as one in which these anonymous mods can justify their actions?
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International site, international readership. Far larger thread running in JB. Keeping this forum at least appearing to be wecoming to military aviators from other nations - usual boring stuff.
Mods having to justify their actions in this case would infer they would prefer to go along with a parochial UK-centric attitude. It would also suggest they are only products of UK military aviation - in both respects this is not the case.
Regards
Rob
Mods having to justify their actions in this case would infer they would prefer to go along with a parochial UK-centric attitude. It would also suggest they are only products of UK military aviation - in both respects this is not the case.
Regards
Rob
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 15th Mar 2003 at 20:12.
Who is PPrune/
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Well I just hope that the "mods" contain more than just the obligatory Crabs. Military Avn takes the form of all 3 services, each with their own take, traditions, personality types, experiences, and viewpoints. I would hate to see this forum become even more RAF-centric so as to further marginalise those of us from the other services by biased moderating. While there are a few RAF types who frequent this board whose opinions I respect as balanced, there are those who no matter how senior they may be in their own service and no matter how much they are respected within their own communities annunciate views and opinions which do nothing to promote inter-service understanding and who demonstrate a profound ignorance of army and naval doctrine. I know of one PPRuNe user who is also a moderator of ARSSE being banned by one moderator here because they disagreed with his very informed point of view and because he systematically dismantled that PPRuNe moderator's argument in a thread on Iraq (in JB). I suspect that there is every danger that threads and posts which offer counter-argument to an RAF dominated agenda will be edited, culled, or blocked simply for disagreeing. This forum is entitled Mil Pilots, not RAF Aircrew, and I belive that steps should be taken to ensure that it is not dominated by one service culture over another. The choice of the name "Flt Lt PPruNe" suggests to me that this is not the case.
I would suggest that if you want to preserve the integrity of this site that the user names we otherwise know these moderators by be published so we know who and what we are dealing with. If you fail to do that then I fear that those of us left here from the army will finally defect to other forums and Mil Pilots will become a closed shop of a few RAF and the opportunity for tri-service understanding will be lost for a long time to come.
I would suggest that if you want to preserve the integrity of this site that the user names we otherwise know these moderators by be published so we know who and what we are dealing with. If you fail to do that then I fear that those of us left here from the army will finally defect to other forums and Mil Pilots will become a closed shop of a few RAF and the opportunity for tri-service understanding will be lost for a long time to come.
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The moderating of this forum is not about controlling or directing whatever debate is going on. It is purely about policing the conduct of those debates, and to ensure, particularly in our current circumstances, that those debates don't compromise the forces that may soon be engaged in combat.
The participants in this forum are not just of all three UK services, but of a number of military arms of many nations around the world. The collective persona known as Flt Lt Pprune encapsulates individuals of more than one nation and service. The name was chosen simply because it had both military and parochial relevance.
We have the utmost respect for those professionals who operate aircraft in green or any shade of blue (or grey, or whatever!), and will not seek to promote any one service, or country, over any other.
Flt Lt Pprune
The participants in this forum are not just of all three UK services, but of a number of military arms of many nations around the world. The collective persona known as Flt Lt Pprune encapsulates individuals of more than one nation and service. The name was chosen simply because it had both military and parochial relevance.
We have the utmost respect for those professionals who operate aircraft in green or any shade of blue (or grey, or whatever!), and will not seek to promote any one service, or country, over any other.
Flt Lt Pprune
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kbf1
Just a small point but a valid one. This forum is actually called Military Aircrew (not "Pilots") as you say.
Like you I am army. But I have never felt 'threatened' or intimidated by our flying counterparts. They do what they do and we do what we do. We even sometimes do it together! Now ain't that a thought.
There are times things get a little bit out of hand and I guess moderators on here is no bad thing. At least we should see how it goes.
Just a small point but a valid one. This forum is actually called Military Aircrew (not "Pilots") as you say.
Like you I am army. But I have never felt 'threatened' or intimidated by our flying counterparts. They do what they do and we do what we do. We even sometimes do it together! Now ain't that a thought.
There are times things get a little bit out of hand and I guess moderators on here is no bad thing. At least we should see how it goes.
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Flt Lt PPRuNe, I have no argument with any of the points you raise. I think that it was a poor decision to firstly choose that name, and secondly to moderate behing a cover of anonymity. As it turns out I know 2 of you personally and am happy to discuss this over a beer or on the phone. My point though remains, either moderating should have been done for OpSec reasons unannounced, or you should have been listed by the names we know you by. Using "Flt Lt PPRuNe" as a collective name simply adds to the already held perception that this forum is dominated by a single-service culture that in the past has seen the AAC contingent leave because it feels less and less like a forum worth being part of, especially when it turns into a mud-slinging contest. Take a look at the "Bag of pooh" thread as a prime example. That turned from a comment about Gen Mike Jackson into something close to a character assassination on the man by a few RAF types, and when those of us who have been fortunate enough to serve under him defend him we get accused of an anti-RAF tirade. What message does "Flt Lt PPRuNe" send to the forum other than a semi-official sanction to opinion that has been voiced by some in the past that this forum should only be used by the RAF community and that brown and grey jobs are not welcome on their forum (ref "Are we all pilots?" thread). The decision to put moderators on this forum is not a contentious one, Rob and the other mods have always taken an interest in what goes on in here albeit discreetly, rather the process has been poorly considered.
Splitting hairs. The point is the forum is "Military" not "RAF".
I too have never felt "threatened", but I am arguing that the culture which has grown on this forum is not necessarily a good one because it is dominated by the prevalence of RAF, and in the minds of some we are seen as intruding on their their ground. The choice of moderator name may (and I use that word advisedly) add credence to the opinions held by some that this is an Air Force/RAF forum to the exclusion of other forms of military avn, and thus is poorly advised.
Now that I know who "Flt Lt PPRuNe" is, I am more comfortable with the handling of content, but still unhappy about the choice of name. Those of us who came in for a shower of abuse just over a year ago from a few individuals for not being RAF FJ a/c took matters into our own hands and started ARSSE where most of the AAC guys defected to. We have our own talking shop now, but I still believe that PPRuNe has much to offer the AAC/FAA, but I do not believe that the choice of name for forum moderator will do much to inspire some of the guys that left here to come back. This may be an uncomfortable position to reconcile, but I am quite content to stand alone in my opinion on this, irrespective of what others may think.
Just a small point but a valid one. This forum is actually called Military Aircrew (not "Pilots") as you say.
I too have never felt "threatened", but I am arguing that the culture which has grown on this forum is not necessarily a good one because it is dominated by the prevalence of RAF, and in the minds of some we are seen as intruding on their their ground. The choice of moderator name may (and I use that word advisedly) add credence to the opinions held by some that this is an Air Force/RAF forum to the exclusion of other forms of military avn, and thus is poorly advised.
Now that I know who "Flt Lt PPRuNe" is, I am more comfortable with the handling of content, but still unhappy about the choice of name. Those of us who came in for a shower of abuse just over a year ago from a few individuals for not being RAF FJ a/c took matters into our own hands and started ARSSE where most of the AAC guys defected to. We have our own talking shop now, but I still believe that PPRuNe has much to offer the AAC/FAA, but I do not believe that the choice of name for forum moderator will do much to inspire some of the guys that left here to come back. This may be an uncomfortable position to reconcile, but I am quite content to stand alone in my opinion on this, irrespective of what others may think.
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KBF, choice of the moderators' collective handle was made on the fly just to get coverage up and running. Cuddly, warm and inclusive sadly it isn't - couldn't get a focus group together in time.
But don't ever think those who've run this board from the outset don't truly appreciate your feelings. This site came about because Danny and I grew so totally frustated on an immense, wideranging and supposedly international site that was in actuality just incredibly parochial, unimaginative and inward looking.
Whether you and folks like Gash fight from within PPRuNe or outside of it we say stick to your guns, use your energy, brains and wit to prevail and never, ever stop shaking the tree.
Regards
Rob
But don't ever think those who've run this board from the outset don't truly appreciate your feelings. This site came about because Danny and I grew so totally frustated on an immense, wideranging and supposedly international site that was in actuality just incredibly parochial, unimaginative and inward looking.
Whether you and folks like Gash fight from within PPRuNe or outside of it we say stick to your guns, use your energy, brains and wit to prevail and never, ever stop shaking the tree.
Regards
Rob
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OK Rob, I accept it was done on the fly, but why not just name the moderators? No-one on here would have an issue with them as individuals as their experience is well known and understood on here. All of the other forums name their moderators, why not this one?
My point of centention is not who they are, or the rationale behind having them (I always believed that one of the things which seperated this forum from the others was that we didn't need a moderator to sort out our squabbles, coming from the environment we do we can sort them out ourselves, but times and circumstances change and I see the logic of this decision in its time and place), rather it is the perception that may form in the minds of those who use it that it is becoming more and more a partisan forum for RAF aircrew to the exclusion of others.
When we started ARSSE and set up the boards by cap-badge the view was taken to name the relevant forum "Aviation" and not "AAC" because of the many aspects of army avn (a/crew incl AGs, BATS, GrndC et al) as the intended audience was different. Here the focus is less on what we do as an operational function within the OrBat and more to do with the art and craft of flying operational and training aircraft. The sad thing is that because of the mindset of a few this forum is fast loosing the benefit of multi-disciplinary input. We never intended to poach people from this site and that was part of the decision not to have an AAC but an Avn forum, though inevitably those who found their way into ARSSE have chosen not to return because of their perception of the RAF dominance of this forum and the posturing of a small minority of users of this site from (what we can only presume are) members of the RAF. There are a number of RAF guys who welcome a bit of banter and debate but there are some that take things too far and see this as their forum and theirs alone. Again, I ask how do you think the positioning of the moderator is potentially interpreted?
Rob, you use the word "fight", I don't think this is in the sense of the word as you use it. I merely contend that it would have been better to give the people you have assigned mods of this forum admin rights and kept quiet about it for the time being or to name the designated mods outright. If I am fighting for anything it is the preservation of this forum as a multi-disciplinary environment and the perception that it is not and a return to what it was about 3 years ago when I joined when there was more life and vibrancy to it, when now it is mainly a sounding board for RAF grievances of one form or another (and I am not for a second suggesting that they are not genuine issues, merely pointing out that it forms the majority of the content).
I am quite content to argue this point through, and expect that it will go no further than to be an argument of point and principle (i.e. I'll loose!), but I think that the point needs to be made as I still use this forum albeit not as much as I used to.
My point of centention is not who they are, or the rationale behind having them (I always believed that one of the things which seperated this forum from the others was that we didn't need a moderator to sort out our squabbles, coming from the environment we do we can sort them out ourselves, but times and circumstances change and I see the logic of this decision in its time and place), rather it is the perception that may form in the minds of those who use it that it is becoming more and more a partisan forum for RAF aircrew to the exclusion of others.
When we started ARSSE and set up the boards by cap-badge the view was taken to name the relevant forum "Aviation" and not "AAC" because of the many aspects of army avn (a/crew incl AGs, BATS, GrndC et al) as the intended audience was different. Here the focus is less on what we do as an operational function within the OrBat and more to do with the art and craft of flying operational and training aircraft. The sad thing is that because of the mindset of a few this forum is fast loosing the benefit of multi-disciplinary input. We never intended to poach people from this site and that was part of the decision not to have an AAC but an Avn forum, though inevitably those who found their way into ARSSE have chosen not to return because of their perception of the RAF dominance of this forum and the posturing of a small minority of users of this site from (what we can only presume are) members of the RAF. There are a number of RAF guys who welcome a bit of banter and debate but there are some that take things too far and see this as their forum and theirs alone. Again, I ask how do you think the positioning of the moderator is potentially interpreted?
Rob, you use the word "fight", I don't think this is in the sense of the word as you use it. I merely contend that it would have been better to give the people you have assigned mods of this forum admin rights and kept quiet about it for the time being or to name the designated mods outright. If I am fighting for anything it is the preservation of this forum as a multi-disciplinary environment and the perception that it is not and a return to what it was about 3 years ago when I joined when there was more life and vibrancy to it, when now it is mainly a sounding board for RAF grievances of one form or another (and I am not for a second suggesting that they are not genuine issues, merely pointing out that it forms the majority of the content).
I am quite content to argue this point through, and expect that it will go no further than to be an argument of point and principle (i.e. I'll loose!), but I think that the point needs to be made as I still use this forum albeit not as much as I used to.
Not quite sure what all the fuss is about. Personally I think the generic Flt Lt PPRuNe is a reasonable collective nom-de-PPRuNE and the accumulated wisdom of some in ensuring that potentially sensitive information is quickly removed is entirely correct.
I don't think that 'banter' is being moderated, but someone posting something which might be of use to an enemy should indeed expect to have their post deleted..........
oh - and sky is blue, mud is brown!
I don't think that 'banter' is being moderated, but someone posting something which might be of use to an enemy should indeed expect to have their post deleted..........
oh - and sky is blue, mud is brown!