Who is Flt Lt Pprune?
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It is worth making the point again that what has always been perceived as an unmoderated forum has been in reality anything but; it's been the remit of the supermod/Admin cadre who have global moderating rights over the public areas of the site to take an occasional glance into this particular officers' (and ranks') mess and act quietly, also to act in response to the many "report this post to a moderator" alerts we recieve.
What we've done with Flt Lt Pprune is create a service-experienced group to front-up the moderating of the forum, with a brief to keep it as light as before. There will be no bias one way or the other, rest assured on that, but having a dedicated team allows the moderating decisions to be more accurate ones based on experience of the forces rather than having civvies like me try to second-guess and get it wrong, as I did just last week. I know which I would rather see in place were I an end user of this forum.
KBF1, the software does not allow us to assign "invisible" moderators to a forum and for forums with a high potential to bring the wrath of the Gods down upon our poor heads at the Towers (such as this, and Dunnunda) it is considered preferable to use a single ID. In this case the decision allows serving or reserve personnel to moderate without any threat to their status, as we see it here. I hear what you are saying about the perceived bias, indeed you and I have talked about this before and I think you've done an excellent job with your site. I would respond that any bias you feel here has not come from the moderating side, rather the contributing side. Therefore, perhaps it is a leap of intuition one step farther than necessary to perceive an increase in bias merely because of an airforce rank in the name chosen to moderate, and therefore hopefully pro-actively reduce any bias on the forum? As I see it, all we did was promote the old Pilot Officer up a rank... and the name chosen is quite appropriate based on the forum and its heritage.
Why not give the "new" status of the forum some time to bed in, and then feedback to us based on the experience in the field over the next month or so. We all are well into constructive criticism here, welcome feedback from the people without whom the damn board wouldn't exist, and no decisions are ever set in stone for those reasons. Unless Danny's in a particularly bad despotic mood that is...
Thanks,
Sick Squid
What we've done with Flt Lt Pprune is create a service-experienced group to front-up the moderating of the forum, with a brief to keep it as light as before. There will be no bias one way or the other, rest assured on that, but having a dedicated team allows the moderating decisions to be more accurate ones based on experience of the forces rather than having civvies like me try to second-guess and get it wrong, as I did just last week. I know which I would rather see in place were I an end user of this forum.
KBF1, the software does not allow us to assign "invisible" moderators to a forum and for forums with a high potential to bring the wrath of the Gods down upon our poor heads at the Towers (such as this, and Dunnunda) it is considered preferable to use a single ID. In this case the decision allows serving or reserve personnel to moderate without any threat to their status, as we see it here. I hear what you are saying about the perceived bias, indeed you and I have talked about this before and I think you've done an excellent job with your site. I would respond that any bias you feel here has not come from the moderating side, rather the contributing side. Therefore, perhaps it is a leap of intuition one step farther than necessary to perceive an increase in bias merely because of an airforce rank in the name chosen to moderate, and therefore hopefully pro-actively reduce any bias on the forum? As I see it, all we did was promote the old Pilot Officer up a rank... and the name chosen is quite appropriate based on the forum and its heritage.
Why not give the "new" status of the forum some time to bed in, and then feedback to us based on the experience in the field over the next month or so. We all are well into constructive criticism here, welcome feedback from the people without whom the damn board wouldn't exist, and no decisions are ever set in stone for those reasons. Unless Danny's in a particularly bad despotic mood that is...
Thanks,
Sick Squid
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kbf1
Well I suppose steps could be taken to ensure that the Rockapes did not dominate a military forum and that the RAF marine branch did not dominate a naval forum. The RAF is primarily an air service, which the army and navy are not. It is only natural that the RAF should dominate the Brit input to a miltary avaiators forum. 
...I believe steps should be taken to ensure that this forum is not dominated by one culture over another...
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kbf1
Please rest assured on a few points.
1. As one of the new Mil mod bods I am, and have always been, totally colour blind as far as the shade of blue/brown uniforms worn by military aircrew. I have worked with masses of different colours of uniform and nationalities all over the world and have the utmost professional respect for military aviators from all over and all shades.
2. Anyway, it doesn't actually matter, as what I am here for is to ensure that the web-site does not (due to lack of forethought or knowledge of the problems) end up in the deep poo. Also to ensure that nothing secret or sensitive (or perhaps insensitive) is posted that could cause problems for either the site or (arguably more importantly) the guys and gals involved in the current situation.
3. I don't care what I am collectively called (Lt/Capt/Flt Lt - in seniority order you will note) because of the fact that I am uniform colour blind. You may guess what colour I actually wear but you may well be wrong!!!!! You may wish to assume that all of us are light blue, and you may wish to know who the mods are. But you do not NEED to know and maybe we don't want to be known. Anonymity may be preferred for all sorts of reasons! This also does not matter because I am NOT here to resolve or take sides over inter-Service rivalry. And anyway, I know full well that you and others like you are able to solve such arguments yourselves. Amazing what the occasional "wind your neck in ya daft crab git" will do to an argument.
Have faith and trust mate! You should.
Please rest assured on a few points.
1. As one of the new Mil mod bods I am, and have always been, totally colour blind as far as the shade of blue/brown uniforms worn by military aircrew. I have worked with masses of different colours of uniform and nationalities all over the world and have the utmost professional respect for military aviators from all over and all shades.
2. Anyway, it doesn't actually matter, as what I am here for is to ensure that the web-site does not (due to lack of forethought or knowledge of the problems) end up in the deep poo. Also to ensure that nothing secret or sensitive (or perhaps insensitive) is posted that could cause problems for either the site or (arguably more importantly) the guys and gals involved in the current situation.
3. I don't care what I am collectively called (Lt/Capt/Flt Lt - in seniority order you will note) because of the fact that I am uniform colour blind. You may guess what colour I actually wear but you may well be wrong!!!!! You may wish to assume that all of us are light blue, and you may wish to know who the mods are. But you do not NEED to know and maybe we don't want to be known. Anonymity may be preferred for all sorts of reasons! This also does not matter because I am NOT here to resolve or take sides over inter-Service rivalry. And anyway, I know full well that you and others like you are able to solve such arguments yourselves. Amazing what the occasional "wind your neck in ya daft crab git" will do to an argument.
Have faith and trust mate! You should.
Flight Lieutenant P Prune is thoughtless and misses a trick and has wound up at least one AAC contributor. On two counts Pilot Officer would have been an improvement.
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All seems fair enough to me. But then I've been an advocate of a moderating team for this Forum for a long time.
Now more and ever we need to keep a restrainig hand on things.
Courage, mes amis.
Now more and ever we need to keep a restrainig hand on things.
Courage, mes amis.
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Different boards, different experiences kbf. Also the traditional damned if we do and damned if we don't. The prefered light hand and moderation only in extremis doesn't tally with us stopping the winged FJ master race dominating and subsuming the forum. If moderation is needed we favour the group approach and we are using it here. Some background:
One of the great successes of the site in recent years has been on the Australian forum, home of fear, loathing and 95% of our legal problems. The Woomera moderator ID is also that of a collective. When Woomera steps in true expertise is implicitly acknowledged. Every possible aspect of aviation from legal/regulatory through airline to instruction is covered by genuine experts. We're not beating our chests about that by the way. The change has been so significant that for the first time ever a regulatory authority has formally requested a forum to be set up on an independent internet site to discuss future airspace, safety, law and regulatory issues.
So, no named moderators here. But why? Have a think about it - aren't you actually asking for more of what you dislike about the place? Oh him, good egg - would always have pint. All a bit clubby, squadronish isn't it?
Isn't that actually saying that while in no way do I want my ID to be known to people senior to me in the services I am only happy with moderators effectively known to me and who I can therefore accept as equals or peers??
It is a function of the software that moderators' names appear at the top otherwise they can't access the control functions. Therefore moderation can't be low key whilst ensuring prompt attention to a problem at a time when people may well be coming into harm's way. The time lag inherent to military PPRuNers oft quoted claims of self policing is, to us here in the Towers, smug and complacent. It seems closely allied to the 'he's OK, I know him' attitudes I discussed earlier.
Many of you visit other areas of the site. You soon develop a nose for who writes well, makes consistent sense and writes with some care. You can respect them even if their views and background differ hugely from yours. You have absolutely no idea who they are, where they live or what they do. Respect for someone's words and integrity do not require you to know them, know of them, have served with them, known their dad, gone to parties with them, served in the same unit or got pissed with them.
Despite all the unit, squadron, service, look after each other but only because we're military banter it's all actually bluff because regulars here accepted the argument in the paragraph above when they joined up on PPRuNe. Each made the judgement on our integrity; that it was worth sending your details to a pair of scally, scouse civilians.
When it comes down to it, Danny and I have the only easily accessible names and addresses attached to this site so you have to live with our solution for now. We bear the brunt of any problems and isolate/defend you from aggro, comeback and the attentions of ModPlod and m'learned friends. You accept our time, effort and integrity in bringing this forum for you safely - it has to be a two way street and we are finally insisting on something back.
To reiterate. No-one ever steps in here unless it is important. The vast majority of interventions on this forum have been by the direct written request of well respected military aviators contributing to the forum. We have clearly stated that the whole thing is up for discussion when life has calmed down in the Middle East and elsewhere.
The team we're assembling are extremely experienced aircrew and long time contributors to this forum who totally believe in its value. It is human nature to judge them. Readers will however judge them on their work, writing, judgement and integrity rather than brevet, badge, rank or reputation. You accept it on the rest of the site - it's time to accept it here.
Meanwhile I'm still working on getting a second army or navy/helo colleague on board - failing that how much for an ad on AArse?
Regards
Rob
Stop Press: 2nd AAC mod and long time PPRuNer sorted and coming on line. Present location now gives us full back of the clock coverage.
One of the great successes of the site in recent years has been on the Australian forum, home of fear, loathing and 95% of our legal problems. The Woomera moderator ID is also that of a collective. When Woomera steps in true expertise is implicitly acknowledged. Every possible aspect of aviation from legal/regulatory through airline to instruction is covered by genuine experts. We're not beating our chests about that by the way. The change has been so significant that for the first time ever a regulatory authority has formally requested a forum to be set up on an independent internet site to discuss future airspace, safety, law and regulatory issues.
So, no named moderators here. But why? Have a think about it - aren't you actually asking for more of what you dislike about the place? Oh him, good egg - would always have pint. All a bit clubby, squadronish isn't it?
Isn't that actually saying that while in no way do I want my ID to be known to people senior to me in the services I am only happy with moderators effectively known to me and who I can therefore accept as equals or peers??
It is a function of the software that moderators' names appear at the top otherwise they can't access the control functions. Therefore moderation can't be low key whilst ensuring prompt attention to a problem at a time when people may well be coming into harm's way. The time lag inherent to military PPRuNers oft quoted claims of self policing is, to us here in the Towers, smug and complacent. It seems closely allied to the 'he's OK, I know him' attitudes I discussed earlier.
Many of you visit other areas of the site. You soon develop a nose for who writes well, makes consistent sense and writes with some care. You can respect them even if their views and background differ hugely from yours. You have absolutely no idea who they are, where they live or what they do. Respect for someone's words and integrity do not require you to know them, know of them, have served with them, known their dad, gone to parties with them, served in the same unit or got pissed with them.
Despite all the unit, squadron, service, look after each other but only because we're military banter it's all actually bluff because regulars here accepted the argument in the paragraph above when they joined up on PPRuNe. Each made the judgement on our integrity; that it was worth sending your details to a pair of scally, scouse civilians.
When it comes down to it, Danny and I have the only easily accessible names and addresses attached to this site so you have to live with our solution for now. We bear the brunt of any problems and isolate/defend you from aggro, comeback and the attentions of ModPlod and m'learned friends. You accept our time, effort and integrity in bringing this forum for you safely - it has to be a two way street and we are finally insisting on something back.
To reiterate. No-one ever steps in here unless it is important. The vast majority of interventions on this forum have been by the direct written request of well respected military aviators contributing to the forum. We have clearly stated that the whole thing is up for discussion when life has calmed down in the Middle East and elsewhere.
The team we're assembling are extremely experienced aircrew and long time contributors to this forum who totally believe in its value. It is human nature to judge them. Readers will however judge them on their work, writing, judgement and integrity rather than brevet, badge, rank or reputation. You accept it on the rest of the site - it's time to accept it here.
Meanwhile I'm still working on getting a second army or navy/helo colleague on board - failing that how much for an ad on AArse?
Regards
Rob
Stop Press: 2nd AAC mod and long time PPRuNer sorted and coming on line. Present location now gives us full back of the clock coverage.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 17th Mar 2003 at 09:59.
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There are far too many points for me to answer each in turn, and in any case, I have made my point and hopefully provoked some thought and discretion being the better part of valour, I'll leave it there and allow the system to bed in.
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Flt Lt P
How on Earth did you acquire moderator status? I'll have to have a word with your boss when he gets back from his cruise in the Middle-East.
If you're going to preside over this place, be gentle with the sensitive chaps from the other services, they can't take the sort of banter that you're used to.
How on Earth did you acquire moderator status? I'll have to have a word with your boss when he gets back from his cruise in the Middle-East.
If you're going to preside over this place, be gentle with the sensitive chaps from the other services, they can't take the sort of banter that you're used to.
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kbf1
My dear Chap, you really need to take time out, sit down and have a large glass of the famous Grouse!! Then you will see, that as the forum says we are all military aircrew!
I admit I am RAF, but I would have gladly pulled you out of the water, irrespective of what colour uniform you wear. Indeed, as has happened many times I would pull you out even irrespective of what nationality you are
Flt Lt PPrune, Admiral PPrune, Brigadier PPrune - who cares, and does it even matter?? I somehow think not old boy.
Anyway, like I said, nip down to Tesco's, buy a litre bottle of grouse, sit in a large chair, and take it easy
After half and hour or so, you simply won't care, and you will appreciate that you have been just an incy, wincy bit silly
Love to all
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, send lbf1 a spare bottle (if we have one)'
ps
For the good officer PPrune - can you confirm that when the conflict is over, we can start to give the French a hard time again??
My dear Chap, you really need to take time out, sit down and have a large glass of the famous Grouse!! Then you will see, that as the forum says we are all military aircrew!
I admit I am RAF, but I would have gladly pulled you out of the water, irrespective of what colour uniform you wear. Indeed, as has happened many times I would pull you out even irrespective of what nationality you are
Flt Lt PPrune, Admiral PPrune, Brigadier PPrune - who cares, and does it even matter?? I somehow think not old boy.
Anyway, like I said, nip down to Tesco's, buy a litre bottle of grouse, sit in a large chair, and take it easy
After half and hour or so, you simply won't care, and you will appreciate that you have been just an incy, wincy bit silly Love to all
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, send lbf1 a spare bottle (if we have one)'
ps
For the good officer PPrune - can you confirm that when the conflict is over, we can start to give the French a hard time again??
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If I were in the pooh somewhere SM, I may even let you rescue me.
Silly? You may think so, of course if they were still here you could always ask the aac guys that left here never to return when it all got out of hand not so long ago.
The fact remains that there are some people who used this forum who steadfastly believed that it is the sole domain of FJ crews. My argument is, and was, that perception is everything and that a bit of thought about the name of the mod wouldn't have gone amiss. Up until a year or so ago this forum was quite lively and there was as much discussion as there was banter, but that stopped when a lot of people had enough of the slagging that was going on against users who weren't RAF. Frankly I miss that time and would like to see it return, but the perception is that this forum is still very partisan. If we can move away from that then some people may return in future.
I'll still take that Grouse if you are offering though.
Silly? You may think so, of course if they were still here you could always ask the aac guys that left here never to return when it all got out of hand not so long ago.
The fact remains that there are some people who used this forum who steadfastly believed that it is the sole domain of FJ crews. My argument is, and was, that perception is everything and that a bit of thought about the name of the mod wouldn't have gone amiss. Up until a year or so ago this forum was quite lively and there was as much discussion as there was banter, but that stopped when a lot of people had enough of the slagging that was going on against users who weren't RAF. Frankly I miss that time and would like to see it return, but the perception is that this forum is still very partisan. If we can move away from that then some people may return in future.
I'll still take that Grouse if you are offering though.
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kbf1
I'm glad you have cooled off a bit. I do take your point about FJ crews, they can be a pain in the old 'bum area' but, they are not worth having a coronary for my dear chap.
Alas, my days of leaping out of my Bright Yellow egg whisk are now at an end. Today I handed in my goon suit, and had to part with my dear trusty watch, which has been with me for years - sad, poo poo.
But, look on the bright side Monkey, more time to enjoy a Grouse, and meet new friends like kbf1!!
Take it easy kbf1, and best wishes to your mates out in the sun.
best wishes
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large one please my good man'
I'm glad you have cooled off a bit. I do take your point about FJ crews, they can be a pain in the old 'bum area' but, they are not worth having a coronary for my dear chap.
Alas, my days of leaping out of my Bright Yellow egg whisk are now at an end. Today I handed in my goon suit, and had to part with my dear trusty watch, which has been with me for years - sad, poo poo.
But, look on the bright side Monkey, more time to enjoy a Grouse, and meet new friends like kbf1!!
Take it easy kbf1, and best wishes to your mates out in the sun.
best wishes
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large one please my good man'
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The monkey swings no more!
Oh well me old mate, I’m sure that after 30odd years, you’ve probably had enough anyway!
May I be the first to wish you a happy retirement!
All the best
Grob Driver.
Ps - If you ever get sick of being on the ground…. Give me a call!
Oh well me old mate, I’m sure that after 30odd years, you’ve probably had enough anyway!
May I be the first to wish you a happy retirement!
All the best
Grob Driver.
Ps - If you ever get sick of being on the ground…. Give me a call!
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Ah the good old 1369. Sadly now replaced, twice actually, first by the 7500, and now by the OJAR.
I'd be delighted to be Flt Lt P's 2nd RO, and what a top idea to have a brown-job in the chain somewhere. I'll see if I can find some bumbling Colonel to sign whatever I write in the 3rd RO's space.
I'd be delighted to be Flt Lt P's 2nd RO, and what a top idea to have a brown-job in the chain somewhere. I'll see if I can find some bumbling Colonel to sign whatever I write in the 3rd RO's space.
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Sorry chaps, but as in Jerry Rawlings' Ghana, Flt Lt is the absolute top of the dictatorial tree. Wg Cdrs are way down the food chain, and ever more will be so.
Cheero!
Pprune, Flt Lt, AAC, RAF, USAF, part-rtd.
Cheero!
Pprune, Flt Lt, AAC, RAF, USAF, part-rtd.
Last edited by Flt Lt Pprune; 22nd Mar 2003 at 12:04.
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L J R
May I relate a very brief story to you? .......
After the Falklands bun fight (where people like myself spend weeks living on Ascension Island) we had the usual 'post war' washup. One of the points I raised then was the need for 'lightweight' flying suits. The airships were left in no uncertain terms that operating in those temperatures, in our normal flying kit was pretty uncomfortable, and potentially hazardous.
About 10 years later, we all went off to war in Desert Storm. Again, in the post war washup, the lack of lightweight flying kit was highlighted to those at the top, and assurances were given that the problem was 'in hand'
Not long after that, many of us were involved in the punch up in Bosnia. More requests for lightweight kit - no joy
The same went for Kosovo.
And guess what, we pleaded yet again after Afghanistan whilst operating in Oman.
Are you getting the thread of this yet mate??
I notice that many of the aircrew currently out in the gulf, are still having to wear their normal flying kit mad:
Wg Cdr Prune. Can you please shed some light on why the boys are still waiting for lightweight kit, after 20 years+ of the problem being highlighted to your colleagues??
Grob Driver. Thank you for most kind words on my impending retirement. I had just about had enough, however, I am already sick of being on the ground, and so I may just take you up on your offer, thanks.
Best wishes and God Speed to all our friends and comrades in the Gulf. Our thoughts are very much with you all at this time.
Regards
The Swinging Monkey RAF, CGB, BBC, AFC, TB, IRT, TNT & bar!
'Caruthers, do you think we should go into the 'lightweight flying suit' making business?'
May I relate a very brief story to you? .......
After the Falklands bun fight (where people like myself spend weeks living on Ascension Island) we had the usual 'post war' washup. One of the points I raised then was the need for 'lightweight' flying suits. The airships were left in no uncertain terms that operating in those temperatures, in our normal flying kit was pretty uncomfortable, and potentially hazardous.
About 10 years later, we all went off to war in Desert Storm. Again, in the post war washup, the lack of lightweight flying kit was highlighted to those at the top, and assurances were given that the problem was 'in hand'
Not long after that, many of us were involved in the punch up in Bosnia. More requests for lightweight kit - no joy
The same went for Kosovo.
And guess what, we pleaded yet again after Afghanistan whilst operating in Oman.
Are you getting the thread of this yet mate??
I notice that many of the aircrew currently out in the gulf, are still having to wear their normal flying kit mad:
Wg Cdr Prune. Can you please shed some light on why the boys are still waiting for lightweight kit, after 20 years+ of the problem being highlighted to your colleagues??
Grob Driver. Thank you for most kind words on my impending retirement. I had just about had enough, however, I am already sick of being on the ground, and so I may just take you up on your offer, thanks.
Best wishes and God Speed to all our friends and comrades in the Gulf. Our thoughts are very much with you all at this time.
Regards
The Swinging Monkey RAF, CGB, BBC, AFC, TB, IRT, TNT & bar!
'Caruthers, do you think we should go into the 'lightweight flying suit' making business?'