More fun & games in the Magic Kingdom
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KFAA bugouts
To replace departee company QFI's I believe. 12 to go and more on standby. It's a clause in Al Yamamah's Contract that's designed to cover such contingencies as flood-gate bug-outs.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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BWoS is only a contractor in the project - the agreement is govt to govt so guess who guarantees the instructors and technical support. MOD has to try to fill the gaps - be interesting to see if they are filled with volunteers or pressed men (yes, men is politically correct because they are not permitted to send women).
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Are you guys saying that even in the face of the bombings and killings that BAE has not made any effort to retain employees on their most lucrative contract?
and that now thay are facing a staffing crisis?
and the British Government (MOD) may use defence personnel in a commercial capacity?
This seems highly unlikely to me.
and that now thay are facing a staffing crisis?
and the British Government (MOD) may use defence personnel in a commercial capacity?
This seems highly unlikely to me.
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Well, speedtoheight, it might seem unlikely to you, but the contract was negotiated and made with guarantees of British government support and there are already several serving members of the RAF working in Saudi.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Al Yamama contract has always had a high percentage of RAF secondee QFI's.
Not a bad lurk except that the company never honoured their undertaking to provide a married quarter inside 12 months. Some took up to three years - which was about the stretch that a secondee served out there....unless opting for extension.
It's a commercial contract and it is govt to govt - but some mighty strange things happened under it. All the brouhaha of last year (and early this year) about the graft and corruption and backhanders to Saudi Princes and Businessmen has all died away now that the required shuffle at the top of BAe has taken place.
Like most other aspects of Saudi society, without the expats and foreign hirelings the whole shooting match would grind to a halt in a very short space of time. The question is whether or not that would be a good thing or a bad thing. Most Western govts are playing the "better the Devil you know...." game and don't really want to pursue any other option but to keep playing the most munificent game in oil-patch town by its long-standing rules.
Not a bad lurk except that the company never honoured their undertaking to provide a married quarter inside 12 months. Some took up to three years - which was about the stretch that a secondee served out there....unless opting for extension.
It's a commercial contract and it is govt to govt - but some mighty strange things happened under it. All the brouhaha of last year (and early this year) about the graft and corruption and backhanders to Saudi Princes and Businessmen has all died away now that the required shuffle at the top of BAe has taken place.
Like most other aspects of Saudi society, without the expats and foreign hirelings the whole shooting match would grind to a halt in a very short space of time. The question is whether or not that would be a good thing or a bad thing. Most Western govts are playing the "better the Devil you know...." game and don't really want to pursue any other option but to keep playing the most munificent game in oil-patch town by its long-standing rules.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Actually chaps the point I was endeavoring (tongue in cheek ) to make was the continuing litany of serious management errors by the Prime Contractor and the penchance of the British Government to smooth things out.
Some examples:
Some others:
Some examples:
- BAE Corruption in Indian Hawk Deal
- MOD Fraud Squad Investigations
- Riddle of sheik's Ł100m secret fund
Some others:
- The Nimrod Refit Project
- The acquisition/sale of Rover
- The acquisition of Royal Ordnance
- The Astute project (cost blowouts)
- The EuroFighter
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I applied to BAE for a job out there before Christmas - after the application nwas acknowledged I heard nothing and so assumed that they didn't want me.
Two days ago they rang to offer me something - I suggested that until the security situation improved markedly I would stick with my current job (much less well rewarded financially but entirely free of Islamic fundamentalists!).
I asked how recruiting was going and the chap at the other end almost cried!
Two days ago they rang to offer me something - I suggested that until the security situation improved markedly I would stick with my current job (much less well rewarded financially but entirely free of Islamic fundamentalists!).
I asked how recruiting was going and the chap at the other end almost cried!
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Talking of incentives to recruit to, or dare I suggest even retaining personnel in the Magic Kingdom, I note that the security state has reduced to AMBER this afternoon in sunny Khobar - I wonder how long that "special, temporary, don't even think about counting it towards your pension or severance package LOA" of 1000 squids per month will last?
I haven't personally noticed the locals being any friendlier downtown or company advise changing regarding travel, families etc.
However, I haven't been here long enough to become too cynical .....yet!
I haven't personally noticed the locals being any friendlier downtown or company advise changing regarding travel, families etc.
However, I haven't been here long enough to become too cynical .....yet!
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Just to correct what UNCTUOUS said in that the project has always had a high percentage of RAF secondees. When I was in Riyadh there was only about 4-5 out of 60+ instructors. When I left this year there was only two that I could think of but also the numbers of IP's had gone down to about 45 (at the time) God knows what it is now.
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RAF Secondees
Well I can think of 11 names in addition to myself when I got there - but that was probably well before your time Saudi-PC9.
Our numbers at that stage, before 22 Sqn was fully manned with airplanes and IP's, WSO's were still in 9 Sqn, 8 Sqn was overmanned and the IP School yet to be cranked up, was probably only about 40 (excluding the Pakistani IP's). And of course there were many more Nav and pilot secondees at Dhahran, Tabuk, Khamis Mushayt etc.
I've been noticing the adverts in my neck of the woods too. I wonder how many bites they'll get. Not too many from anybody with half a clue I'd guess. But then again there are lots of younger pilot peeples around who haven't yet come to terms with their mortality.
I was immortal once. But then I suddenly awoke one day, found myself in a pool of blood and guts and suddenly realised that I wasn't. Life has always seemed a lot more precious since that day. I wouldn't go back there even if I did need their money.
Our numbers at that stage, before 22 Sqn was fully manned with airplanes and IP's, WSO's were still in 9 Sqn, 8 Sqn was overmanned and the IP School yet to be cranked up, was probably only about 40 (excluding the Pakistani IP's). And of course there were many more Nav and pilot secondees at Dhahran, Tabuk, Khamis Mushayt etc.
I've been noticing the adverts in my neck of the woods too. I wonder how many bites they'll get. Not too many from anybody with half a clue I'd guess. But then again there are lots of younger pilot peeples around who haven't yet come to terms with their mortality.
I was immortal once. But then I suddenly awoke one day, found myself in a pool of blood and guts and suddenly realised that I wasn't. Life has always seemed a lot more precious since that day. I wouldn't go back there even if I did need their money.
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UNCTUOUS,
Could well be mate, I got there in 99. 22Sqn was fully up with 9 Sqn. 77 was the WSO Sqn and 11 was training the IP's. Later 11 was training WSO's as well, but have heard recently that they have now folded back into 77 due to lack of IP's.
I wouldn't go back there either! Five years was enough to last a lifetime unless I was carrying some sort of GBU that I could drop
Could well be mate, I got there in 99. 22Sqn was fully up with 9 Sqn. 77 was the WSO Sqn and 11 was training the IP's. Later 11 was training WSO's as well, but have heard recently that they have now folded back into 77 due to lack of IP's.
I wouldn't go back there either! Five years was enough to last a lifetime unless I was carrying some sort of GBU that I could drop
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a few porkies
Fond memories of people but also of some quite miserable gits - although they were in the distinct minority. Many top IP's were sacked because the Saud's just didn't like their faces. Some got their window-seat home next day because they weren't supported by the company. Some couldn't hide their disdain for the RSAF officers and paid the price. Col Othman was sacking up to 8 at a time at one stage (pour encourager les autres). I only lasted the many years that I did because I never met or had a student that was undeserving of a fair go. Chaps like Dicky Duck who lasted 15 years or more eventually left well after retirement age because the place couldn't have run without them. But Dicky only lasted a few months back in Bllighty and succumbed to cancer. One secondee hung himself not long before he was due back out there.
The continual climate of change one could live with but seemingly every other day brought new personnel traumas. I often wonder whether Prince Farhan ate the packet of pork crispies that I left in his bottom desk drawer when I left. He may have still been CO 22Sqn in your time Saudi-PC9. I only did that because I'd noticed some empty packets of potato crisps in his waste paper basket -- and I thought he'd enjoy the new taste sensation.
The continual climate of change one could live with but seemingly every other day brought new personnel traumas. I often wonder whether Prince Farhan ate the packet of pork crispies that I left in his bottom desk drawer when I left. He may have still been CO 22Sqn in your time Saudi-PC9. I only did that because I'd noticed some empty packets of potato crisps in his waste paper basket -- and I thought he'd enjoy the new taste sensation.
UNCTUOUS
I sincerely hope the poison gnome enjoyed his crisps. You may well be surprised to hear that after years of saying “we want quality not quantity” that a small amount of quality is being applied. 9 SQN always appeared to have a few suspendees on their courses but 22 are now doing the same. Mind you the quality is set be the standard the Saudi’s want and is still contaminated by family, tribal and friendship ties.
I sincerely hope the poison gnome enjoyed his crisps. You may well be surprised to hear that after years of saying “we want quality not quantity” that a small amount of quality is being applied. 9 SQN always appeared to have a few suspendees on their courses but 22 are now doing the same. Mind you the quality is set be the standard the Saudi’s want and is still contaminated by family, tribal and friendship ties.
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Heard that because the whole Al-Yamamah thingy is a govt.-govt. agreement, the Brit government has agreed (or is now obligated) to bolster the flagging IP numbers with secondees.
If that's the case it should add a new dimension to the scene over there.
Before (all the s*#t hit the fan, that is) one didn't dare upset the delicate sensibilities of ones' new employer unless one wanted a one-way ticket outta there.
I'm guessing that any secondee (who in all probablility had his arm severely twisted in the first place) would now simply tell Major Al-D*#&head what he could do with his stupid air force and hallas - one way ticket outta there!
Interesting times I"m sure..................
If that's the case it should add a new dimension to the scene over there.
Before (all the s*#t hit the fan, that is) one didn't dare upset the delicate sensibilities of ones' new employer unless one wanted a one-way ticket outta there.
I'm guessing that any secondee (who in all probablility had his arm severely twisted in the first place) would now simply tell Major Al-D*#&head what he could do with his stupid air force and hallas - one way ticket outta there!
Interesting times I"m sure..................