View Poll Results: Should we go to war?
Yes!
49
32.67%
No!
87
58.00%
Don't Know !
14
9.33%
Voters: 150. This poll is closed
Should we go to war?Just visit and vote
Orac,
You absolute ba$tard! Comparing me with Bubette. Below the belt, old chap! While I'll admit to a degree of passion on this one, I am open to argument, and I do see right and wrong on both sides of the argument. You may be right. Maybe no-one's listening, but anyone who thinks that the whole Palestine/Israel argument isn't relevant to the likely Arab/Islamic reaction to Dubya's latest folly is kidding himself.
Blue,
We seldom agree, but that is a nicely written statement of the anti-war case.
I'm not sure, however, that imposed regime change ever works (for all the reasons elaborated by steam chicken a couple of pages back) except when a people is completely traumatised by outright defeat and by an extraordinary degree of fear. I'm certain that it's not morally right where the threat posed by a nation is posed only by the leadership/government, and not by the entire society (as was arguably the case in Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan).
It's certainly not the USA's place to try and impose its choice of regime on Iraq.
You absolute ba$tard! Comparing me with Bubette. Below the belt, old chap! While I'll admit to a degree of passion on this one, I am open to argument, and I do see right and wrong on both sides of the argument. You may be right. Maybe no-one's listening, but anyone who thinks that the whole Palestine/Israel argument isn't relevant to the likely Arab/Islamic reaction to Dubya's latest folly is kidding himself.
Blue,
We seldom agree, but that is a nicely written statement of the anti-war case.
I'm not sure, however, that imposed regime change ever works (for all the reasons elaborated by steam chicken a couple of pages back) except when a people is completely traumatised by outright defeat and by an extraordinary degree of fear. I'm certain that it's not morally right where the threat posed by a nation is posed only by the leadership/government, and not by the entire society (as was arguably the case in Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan).
It's certainly not the USA's place to try and impose its choice of regime on Iraq.
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I'm listening and I doubt I'm alone.
I listen to BlueWolf, ORAC, Jackonicko and solotk because they usually offer fair and good quality arguments for their respective positions. Keep it up.
I must say ORAC in defence of Jackonicko he's nothing like Bubbette. I cringe and fear for the safety of the world when I read Bubbette's pathetic propaganda. Meanwhile I think we've got half a chance of not stepping over the mark even on the firing line when the chips are down if Jackonicko's behind the trigger. Unfortunately Bubbette's probably got more hardware packing a bigger punch than does Jackonicko.
I listen to BlueWolf, ORAC, Jackonicko and solotk because they usually offer fair and good quality arguments for their respective positions. Keep it up.
I must say ORAC in defence of Jackonicko he's nothing like Bubbette. I cringe and fear for the safety of the world when I read Bubbette's pathetic propaganda. Meanwhile I think we've got half a chance of not stepping over the mark even on the firing line when the chips are down if Jackonicko's behind the trigger. Unfortunately Bubbette's probably got more hardware packing a bigger punch than does Jackonicko.
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Well, thanks to a small bunch of inconsiderate people who are unable to keep a thread on track I now have to spend the next few hours, going through this and removing all the irrelevant and petty arguing.
Bubbette & Jackonicko, you are the main culprits and poor old Solotk is about to reach his quota of points and be banned!
I can understand where bubbette is coming from but I don't agree to the thread being diverted in this way. Jackonocko is an arab propagandist and the impression I get is that he is very easily led into an argument with bubbette. At least Bubbette has the conviction to admit openly her beliefs and ideology.
Anyway, this thread is about "Should we go to war?". The distracting debate about the Israel/Palestinian issue is not appropriate here even if there are quite a few individuals who have, in my opinion, views tempered by distorted propaganda, the likes of which Jackonicko tends to purvey. So, I'm clocing this thread for the time being and will reinstate it when I have edited it enough to get it more or less back on track.
PS. Second thoughts... just started to read the whole thread and to be perfectly honest I can't be bothered to waste my time doing all that editing. I'll just leave the post closed.
I really don't want to get a moderator in this forum but if you lot are unable to sort yourselves out without descending into flame wars and petty insults then you are going to get one and that will lead to a lot more lock-outs for threads AND individuals.
Once again... Bubbette will always jump in and try and defend the Israeli point of view (from American eyes) but she does not descend into personal insults. Jackonicko will always jump in and stir up the flames with his arab perspective on the issue, also without insults. Solotk and a few others will ruin it all and take it beyond recovery by attacking the individual instead of the argument. I don't see why I should ban someone for making a point, without using personal insult. I will ban someone if they persistently divert the course of threads and in this case Bubbette and Jackonicko are testing me on that issue. True, Bubbette didn't introduce the topic of Israel and the Palestinians but she did latch on to the mention of that topic and thereby caused the thread to drift dramatically off course. Jackonicko just latched on blindly and accellerated it and then Solotk stirred it all up with personal insults.
There are others involved also, but I'll stick to the main protagonists in this case. Whilst there is no way of keeping the Israel/Palestinian issue out of any debate when it comes to Middle East affairs, the Iraq issue in particular, I do expect most of you to have the maturity and intelligence to keep the debate more or less on track. Obviously my expectations are aimed too high and I am disappointed that I have to get involved. I am going to leave this thread closed and you will just have to deal with it.
There are many websites out there with propaganda for both sides of the Israel/Palestine debate. Go find one of those that suits your purposes and have your idealogical fights there. I have lived in the region and my views are well known on this website. Whilst I am pro Israel I am not anti Palestine. I am not pro Sharon but I am anti Arafat. Politics in Israel regarding the Palestinians are a very hot issue and for those of you only educated by a diet of distorted media 'packages' I suggest you either stay out of the debate or else go to your local library and do a bit of research for yourselves before engaging brain/digit/keyboard (in that order and in the appropriate thread).
Bubbette & Jackonicko, you are the main culprits and poor old Solotk is about to reach his quota of points and be banned!
I can understand where bubbette is coming from but I don't agree to the thread being diverted in this way. Jackonocko is an arab propagandist and the impression I get is that he is very easily led into an argument with bubbette. At least Bubbette has the conviction to admit openly her beliefs and ideology.
Anyway, this thread is about "Should we go to war?". The distracting debate about the Israel/Palestinian issue is not appropriate here even if there are quite a few individuals who have, in my opinion, views tempered by distorted propaganda, the likes of which Jackonicko tends to purvey. So, I'm clocing this thread for the time being and will reinstate it when I have edited it enough to get it more or less back on track.
PS. Second thoughts... just started to read the whole thread and to be perfectly honest I can't be bothered to waste my time doing all that editing. I'll just leave the post closed.
I really don't want to get a moderator in this forum but if you lot are unable to sort yourselves out without descending into flame wars and petty insults then you are going to get one and that will lead to a lot more lock-outs for threads AND individuals.
Once again... Bubbette will always jump in and try and defend the Israeli point of view (from American eyes) but she does not descend into personal insults. Jackonicko will always jump in and stir up the flames with his arab perspective on the issue, also without insults. Solotk and a few others will ruin it all and take it beyond recovery by attacking the individual instead of the argument. I don't see why I should ban someone for making a point, without using personal insult. I will ban someone if they persistently divert the course of threads and in this case Bubbette and Jackonicko are testing me on that issue. True, Bubbette didn't introduce the topic of Israel and the Palestinians but she did latch on to the mention of that topic and thereby caused the thread to drift dramatically off course. Jackonicko just latched on blindly and accellerated it and then Solotk stirred it all up with personal insults.
There are others involved also, but I'll stick to the main protagonists in this case. Whilst there is no way of keeping the Israel/Palestinian issue out of any debate when it comes to Middle East affairs, the Iraq issue in particular, I do expect most of you to have the maturity and intelligence to keep the debate more or less on track. Obviously my expectations are aimed too high and I am disappointed that I have to get involved. I am going to leave this thread closed and you will just have to deal with it.
There are many websites out there with propaganda for both sides of the Israel/Palestine debate. Go find one of those that suits your purposes and have your idealogical fights there. I have lived in the region and my views are well known on this website. Whilst I am pro Israel I am not anti Palestine. I am not pro Sharon but I am anti Arafat. Politics in Israel regarding the Palestinians are a very hot issue and for those of you only educated by a diet of distorted media 'packages' I suggest you either stay out of the debate or else go to your local library and do a bit of research for yourselves before engaging brain/digit/keyboard (in that order and in the appropriate thread).
Last edited by Danny; 30th Jan 2003 at 11:28.
