View Poll Results: What are you Navs and AEOs gonna do on 1 Apr?
Stick with the Old Brevet?
28
77.78%
Go with the new WSO Brevet?
8
22.22%
Voters: 36. This poll is closed
WSO Brevet or Keep The Old One
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2001
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WSO Brevet or Keep The Old One
Come 1 Apr, the Navs and AEOs are gonna have to decide. Change to the WSO Brevet (nice design..?) or stick with the old one? Me? I'm changing - no point in being associated with an obsolete trade. Who's changing, and who's sticking with the old brevet?
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I'm in your gang Snake Eyes . The times they are a changing and I for one don't want to be a sad old b*stard telling the sprog WSOps that "it was better when we were AEOps". Besides, anyone who works with you knows what trade you are and many non-aircrew types think AE stands for Air Engineer anyway!
I registered with this outfit specifically to post a reply to your thread. Though I am still undecided on the new brevet I am tending to favour your view, the badge is nicer looking and one has to try and keep up with the latest fashions. As for the grumbling dinosaur telling sproggs that my badge is better than theirs because it is older, I do not want to be in that gang.
There I think I have just talked myself into getting a shinny new badge, the question is when will there be enough of them in stores to allow the stackers to hand them out? Maybe when the MRA4 comes into service.
ALWAYS assume NEVER CHECK
There I think I have just talked myself into getting a shinny new badge, the question is when will there be enough of them in stores to allow the stackers to hand them out? Maybe when the MRA4 comes into service.
ALWAYS assume NEVER CHECK
Join Date: Oct 2001
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It would be interesting to see what the background is for those that say they will change.
I gained O levels and would have no desire to change them for GCSE's (if the option was available), so why would I want to change my military qualification, for that is what your flying badge is.
I personally will not be popping along to stores for a new brevet. I trained as an AEOp, graduated as an AEOp, my qualifiaction certificate says AEOp and I have proudly served as an AEOp for many years.
I am not an old fossil and will not harp on about AEO(p) v's WSO(p) or "the good old days", why should I? (There are enough of those out there already, before any WSO(p) brevets have been seen.) We all do the same job, just trained at a different time and awarded a different brevet.
Proud to be an AEOp
MadMark!!!
I gained O levels and would have no desire to change them for GCSE's (if the option was available), so why would I want to change my military qualification, for that is what your flying badge is.
I personally will not be popping along to stores for a new brevet. I trained as an AEOp, graduated as an AEOp, my qualifiaction certificate says AEOp and I have proudly served as an AEOp for many years.
I am not an old fossil and will not harp on about AEO(p) v's WSO(p) or "the good old days", why should I? (There are enough of those out there already, before any WSO(p) brevets have been seen.) We all do the same job, just trained at a different time and awarded a different brevet.
Proud to be an AEOp
MadMark!!!
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Does it really matter ?
Does the brevet really matter? As a shmavigator on helos my job is being shxxcanned anyway. The powers that be say this wont affect my career but I dont believe them - why should they start telling the truth now?. When something is no longer wanted, it is no longer wanted from the second the decision is made. No helos, muli-engine slots decreasing and Eurofighter spell the end for me regardless of which poxy badge I have to wear to Iraq ('even though we are getting rid of you the second we train enough pilots, we are short of front line aircrew at the moment so you will have to do').
To some up, the only badge I will wear with pride is my McDonalds 5 star badge. It is after all, the only thing I will get out of a 16 career risking my neck for Queen and country.
There is one other way out. Saddam, if you are listening, pay my mortgage of and I'll leave the mob now.
To some up, the only badge I will wear with pride is my McDonalds 5 star badge. It is after all, the only thing I will get out of a 16 career risking my neck for Queen and country.
There is one other way out. Saddam, if you are listening, pay my mortgage of and I'll leave the mob now.
kbf1
have a look here
http://www.airmenaircrew.freeserve.c..._rear_crew.htm
ALWAYS assume NEVER check
have a look here
http://www.airmenaircrew.freeserve.c..._rear_crew.htm
ALWAYS assume NEVER check
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Akula... Thanks. The new brevet looks ok, the RAF could have done a worse job(God knows the Army has made some hideous blunders with uniform items and cap badges for newly amalgamated regiments).
How will you know what each crew member does I wonder?
I see Mad Mark's point, and would agree. I sense a degree of confusion may result from the changes, as well as crewmembers having to explain what they do now. Do these changes also affect FC/ALM/AE branches?
How will you know what each crew member does I wonder?
I see Mad Mark's point, and would agree. I sense a degree of confusion may result from the changes, as well as crewmembers having to explain what they do now. Do these changes also affect FC/ALM/AE branches?
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New to these parts so excuse me if I go over old ground. New badge or old? Either/or to be honest. There are far more pressing problems with the aeop world like recruitment/retention/geographical positioning/posting choices... unless these are sorted out there will be another hole to fill soon and my new wsop badge will be back in the storemens draw!!
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If we wear the same brevet (whether or not it's the old AE or the new WSOp), does it mean that we will all get the same flying pay???
PS Anyone heard the latest rumour about the Airmen Aircrew Sustainability Report being delayed? We were due to get the brief (and the CD) on 7th Feb at Ice Station Kilo.
PS Anyone heard the latest rumour about the Airmen Aircrew Sustainability Report being delayed? We were due to get the brief (and the CD) on 7th Feb at Ice Station Kilo.
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I hate to get picky, but this made my blood boil:
"AP830 Vol 3 Part C 5th Ed
WEF 010403 the current range of 5 aircrew brevets for rear crew personnel will be replaced with a single rear crew brevet."
ie Nav, Air Eng, Air Signaller, ALM & AEOp
Now call me a bluff old traditionalist but since when has the bl00dy engineer sat in the back, or ever been referred to as "rear crew"
Even when on the Top Bunk it's still at the bl00dy front of the a/c
"AP830 Vol 3 Part C 5th Ed
WEF 010403 the current range of 5 aircrew brevets for rear crew personnel will be replaced with a single rear crew brevet."
ie Nav, Air Eng, Air Signaller, ALM & AEOp
Now call me a bluff old traditionalist but since when has the bl00dy engineer sat in the back, or ever been referred to as "rear crew"
Even when on the Top Bunk it's still at the bl00dy front of the a/c
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TBT,
Surely if you are sat behind the pilots, which I believe is usually the case for engineers
, then this must place you in the same category as the Nav, Ae, Aeop, WSO, WSOP, ALM etc etc....................ie rear crew. Remember mate "no stick no vote", it's a pilots outfit and you, like me and the rest of the rear crew aint one
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Surely if you are sat behind the pilots, which I believe is usually the case for engineers
, then this must place you in the same category as the Nav, Ae, Aeop, WSO, WSOP, ALM etc etc....................ie rear crew. Remember mate "no stick no vote", it's a pilots outfit and you, like me and the rest of the rear crew aint one all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
Join Date: May 2000
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As far as I understood it, and I was present in the room when the Air Officer said these very words. Spoken in the Rearcrew roadshow briefing some 2 years or so ago and I quote!!
" The Air Eng branch is withering on the vine as it draws down, therefore the Air Eng brevet will remain as a standalone and HAS NOT been included in the rearcrew review"
So has some one finally woken up to smell the coffee and realise the Air Eng's might be around a little while longer than anticipated?? Well actually the proof of that will be out at the end of this week, will it not??
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. You are NOT being forced to change brevets. Got far more important things to do like jumping through stupid hoops before we deploy!
" The Air Eng branch is withering on the vine as it draws down, therefore the Air Eng brevet will remain as a standalone and HAS NOT been included in the rearcrew review"
So has some one finally woken up to smell the coffee and realise the Air Eng's might be around a little while longer than anticipated?? Well actually the proof of that will be out at the end of this week, will it not??
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. You are NOT being forced to change brevets. Got far more important things to do like jumping through stupid hoops before we deploy!
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AA Review
So we might not be getting the Airmen Aircrew report on Friday after all. Delayed......wonder why? Maybe it's not so attractive to AA and they might decline the offer of a holiday in the desert. Or am I just being cynical?
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fortytwo,
Don't know if the AA review is delayed or not. But one reason could be tie up to AFPRB report which must be fairly imminent.
So if there is a delay there...........
Don't know if the AA review is delayed or not. But one reason could be tie up to AFPRB report which must be fairly imminent.
So if there is a delay there...........
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As a pilot who is proud to have started in aviation as a navigator, my view is that WSO/Whizzo is a horrible term that does nothing to enhance the professional standing of non-pilot military aircrew. The historical and much-honoured title for such aircrew is Observer so why not revert to this? Sadly, I suspect that the Air Staff have ruled it out because the Royal Navy have stuck with it. The pettiness of inter-service rivalry have to be seen to be believed.
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Maybe ALMs will keep their brevet, unless the retention people decide that to keep things easier for Innsworth, we could all become one brevet. That way AE's could "choose" to be a bit warry and fly around in Chinooks for a few years, and ALMs could decide they need to put on a few pounds by going north for a tour or two. Sorts out the ALMs downbanding too....
Oh, and as an afterthought..... It would also make Innsworth's job easier as they could fill Nimrod shortages with Loadies fresh out of training who had never read the smallprint and realised that they could also be sent north for a year or six!
Oh, and as an afterthought..... It would also make Innsworth's job easier as they could fill Nimrod shortages with Loadies fresh out of training who had never read the smallprint and realised that they could also be sent north for a year or six!