Navigators/WSOs
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Ruth Madoc's Pencil case
Navigators/WSOs
I would appreciate any insight into the future role of Navigators in the RAF, I intend to apply to join the branch but have some doubts over its longevity and am wondering about the wisdom of applying for a Permanent Commission if half way through my career there were no longer any aircraft left in which to fly! After periodically perusing this forum over the last few months i've come up with the following questions:
1. If Tornados are being phased out over the next 10-15 years what will happen to the Navigators, will they be moved to Nimrod or Helicopters or will they be offered ground tours?
2. Are Navigators still needed on helicopters? One post a few weeks back indicated that the Upper echelons of the RAF have decided that there will be no more, yet i recall reading something a while back that said Navigators would be employed on the Merlin?
3. Will there be Navigators on the new Nimrod? how many?
4. Do they still take on Navigators for Hercules, E3-D etc?
5. Some of the Careers info refers to WSOs, some to Navigators. Are these one and the same? what on earth does a WSO do?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
1. If Tornados are being phased out over the next 10-15 years what will happen to the Navigators, will they be moved to Nimrod or Helicopters or will they be offered ground tours?
2. Are Navigators still needed on helicopters? One post a few weeks back indicated that the Upper echelons of the RAF have decided that there will be no more, yet i recall reading something a while back that said Navigators would be employed on the Merlin?
3. Will there be Navigators on the new Nimrod? how many?
4. Do they still take on Navigators for Hercules, E3-D etc?
5. Some of the Careers info refers to WSOs, some to Navigators. Are these one and the same? what on earth does a WSO do?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 84
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From: desert mostly
Green Brain, some answers to (some) of your questions.
In reverse order:
5."what on earth does a WSO do? "
From April(last I heard) this year anyone who grads off a Navigator Advanced flying training course will no longer be awarded an N brevet. They will wear the new WSO brevet. Those already wearing the N can choose to swap to WSO or keep the N. A WSO wil do the same jobs a Nav does at the moment. For the time being it's not much more than a re-branding exercise.
4."Do they still take on Navigators for Hercules, E3-D etc? "
There are still Navs on E3-Ds and C130K. However as an ab-initio you would not have these options available to you, as a general rule.
3. "Will there be Navigators on the new Nimrod? how many?"
Crew compliment on the MRA4 will reduce to 10 (if it materialises).
We lose the AEO, instead having TACCO1 & 2 positions (Tactical Officer) which will work in a similar (though not identical) fashion as the Tac/Route Nav team on the MR2. They will be WSOs/Navs.
Hope this is of some help.
In reverse order:
5."what on earth does a WSO do? "
From April(last I heard) this year anyone who grads off a Navigator Advanced flying training course will no longer be awarded an N brevet. They will wear the new WSO brevet. Those already wearing the N can choose to swap to WSO or keep the N. A WSO wil do the same jobs a Nav does at the moment. For the time being it's not much more than a re-branding exercise.
4."Do they still take on Navigators for Hercules, E3-D etc? "
There are still Navs on E3-Ds and C130K. However as an ab-initio you would not have these options available to you, as a general rule.
3. "Will there be Navigators on the new Nimrod? how many?"
Crew compliment on the MRA4 will reduce to 10 (if it materialises).
We lose the AEO, instead having TACCO1 & 2 positions (Tactical Officer) which will work in a similar (though not identical) fashion as the Tac/Route Nav team on the MR2. They will be WSOs/Navs.
Hope this is of some help.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 453
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From: Lincs
Green Brain,
Currently there is still a traditional Nav plotter on the the E-3D, but his days are almost certainly numbered. I'd give them 5 years max before they're replaced by a black box. In the mean time, while we still take the (very) occasional ab initio nav, most are re roled from other types.
However, there are plenty of Nav's down the back of the AWACS performing the various mission crew roles. Indeed, I expect and hope that some of the F3 and rotary navs will cross to E-3D mission crew as it would make excellent use of their tactical experience.
Additionally, when ASTOR enters service the Mission Controller will be a Nav/AEO or WSO. Similarly, I assume that the Mission Supervisor position on the Nimrod R1 will be opened up to former navs once the WSO concept takes hold.
Good luck!
Regards
M2
Currently there is still a traditional Nav plotter on the the E-3D, but his days are almost certainly numbered. I'd give them 5 years max before they're replaced by a black box. In the mean time, while we still take the (very) occasional ab initio nav, most are re roled from other types.
However, there are plenty of Nav's down the back of the AWACS performing the various mission crew roles. Indeed, I expect and hope that some of the F3 and rotary navs will cross to E-3D mission crew as it would make excellent use of their tactical experience.
Additionally, when ASTOR enters service the Mission Controller will be a Nav/AEO or WSO. Similarly, I assume that the Mission Supervisor position on the Nimrod R1 will be opened up to former navs once the WSO concept takes hold.
Good luck!
Regards
M2
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 405
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From: Emirates Living - The Meadows
230 Grrrr and 33 have Navs. One of them even smiled at me once
The answer to your question which no one has yet answered was WSO stands 4 Weapons Systems Operator.
As for whether or not to take a RegC. If you are offered a RegC take it. It's better than not being offered one and wanting it.
The disadvantages are only that if you decide to leave b4 your 38yr or 16yrs svc point that you will not be considered as having fullfilled your remit and thus will not to the immediate pension thing. Wheras if you go for the IRC and do 12yrs then you get a wadge of cash and prob get a ret bonus when you sign on for the last 4 years to make your Reg C.
There are no jobs for life out in civdiv so don't um and ah sign on the dotted line the worst you can do is lose a bit of pension. If you don't you could end up wishing that you had.
The answer to your question which no one has yet answered was WSO stands 4 Weapons Systems Operator.
As for whether or not to take a RegC. If you are offered a RegC take it. It's better than not being offered one and wanting it.
The disadvantages are only that if you decide to leave b4 your 38yr or 16yrs svc point that you will not be considered as having fullfilled your remit and thus will not to the immediate pension thing. Wheras if you go for the IRC and do 12yrs then you get a wadge of cash and prob get a ret bonus when you sign on for the last 4 years to make your Reg C.
There are no jobs for life out in civdiv so don't um and ah sign on the dotted line the worst you can do is lose a bit of pension. If you don't you could end up wishing that you had.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 84
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From: desert mostly
Small point but WSO stands for Weapons System Officer. Weapons System Operator abbreviates to WSOp, which will be applied to the old AEOp trades. Hence the NCO aircrew down the back can wear a WSOp brevet if they wish when the change comes.
