Fleet Air Arm new hardware
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Fleet Air Arm new hardware
Hi all,
Is it true that the RN are considering the Osprey the "best of both worlds" aircraft, and the Lynx will be replaced by the Apache??
Also what kind of transition will the harrier pilots go through for the JSF, serious re-training?? or will the RAF be taking over the majority of fixed wing activity?
Any help appreciated ( for a hopeful future RN pilot)
Anyone??
Is it true that the RN are considering the Osprey the "best of both worlds" aircraft, and the Lynx will be replaced by the Apache??
Also what kind of transition will the harrier pilots go through for the JSF, serious re-training?? or will the RAF be taking over the majority of fixed wing activity?
Any help appreciated ( for a hopeful future RN pilot)
Anyone??
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NO,NO and NO.
The next Lynx will probably look very similar to the present one. There is not a replacement for the Junglies yet and the harrier's are going to be flown by navy aircrew.
The next Lynx will probably look very similar to the present one. There is not a replacement for the Junglies yet and the harrier's are going to be flown by navy aircrew.
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Depends though on what version of the lynx you are talking about - if it is Mk8 then no it will not be replaced by the apache. However I guess it is always possible that the RM variant with TOW missiles could be replaced, but I would imagine what we'll get is some vague commitment that the army would provide apaches when needed rather than form a dedicated unit solely for the RN.
As for Osprey - well the SABR requirement keeps slipping, the wy things are going I'd be suprised to see a new jungly chopper much before 2015.
As for Osprey - well the SABR requirement keeps slipping, the wy things are going I'd be suprised to see a new jungly chopper much before 2015.
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According to "Warships" Guide to the Royal Navy 2003:
"12 Seakings and six Lynx AH7's ( the latter to be replaced by marinised WAH-64D Apaches )".
Also the UK's SABR requirement has five contenders:
Augusta Westland EH-101
The Boeing-Bell V22 Osprey
The NH90
CH-47 Chinook
Sikorsky's S-92
Apparently although the Osprey has had teething problems in the US it is becoming a promising option
Any ideas
"12 Seakings and six Lynx AH7's ( the latter to be replaced by marinised WAH-64D Apaches )".
Also the UK's SABR requirement has five contenders:
Augusta Westland EH-101
The Boeing-Bell V22 Osprey
The NH90
CH-47 Chinook
Sikorsky's S-92
Apparently although the Osprey has had teething problems in the US it is becoming a promising option
Any ideas
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Support Amphibious Battlefield Rotorcraft (SABR)
The most logical solution is for SABR to be a mix of EH101 (Merlin Mk 4?) and Chinook to meet the requirements of all users - as for in service date (ISD) your guess is as good as mine - should have been 2008 but as intimated that will almost certainly slip! 
Speedbird,
The plan is (remember that no plan survives contact with the Treasury)
AH-64 to replace Lynx with TOW, as you suggest from the magazine quote. As Jimlad suggests the big idea is (or was, last time I looked) that the airframes and crews would be drawn from the AAC, rather than just from RN/RM.
Harrier/SHAR - SHAR to go by end of 2006. One RAF GR 7 squadron to disband. Remaining two RAF squadrons joined by 800 and 801 NAS (presumably these numberplates will be used) - all four units to fly Harrier GR 7/ GR 9. Aircrew to be from both services in each squadron. In terms of numbers RAF units will be 'light blue heavy', RN units 'dark blue heavy'. To be replaced by JSF from about 2012.
Nothing to add to the comments already made about SABR.
Hope this helps
The plan is (remember that no plan survives contact with the Treasury)
AH-64 to replace Lynx with TOW, as you suggest from the magazine quote. As Jimlad suggests the big idea is (or was, last time I looked) that the airframes and crews would be drawn from the AAC, rather than just from RN/RM.
Harrier/SHAR - SHAR to go by end of 2006. One RAF GR 7 squadron to disband. Remaining two RAF squadrons joined by 800 and 801 NAS (presumably these numberplates will be used) - all four units to fly Harrier GR 7/ GR 9. Aircrew to be from both services in each squadron. In terms of numbers RAF units will be 'light blue heavy', RN units 'dark blue heavy'. To be replaced by JSF from about 2012.
Nothing to add to the comments already made about SABR.
Hope this helps
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Speed B,
Both the Seaking 4 and Lynx are to be replaced in the near future, SABR will most likely be new Chinooks, the Merlin just can't lift anything and hasn't got any legs, NH90 and S92 are unproven, not built here and therefore seen as being too risky. Osprey even more so.
Lynx is being replaced by BLUH and SCMR. This might end up being a new Lynx provided for you brave fliers by those clever people at Wastelands but thats a political matter and we couldn't possibly discuss that. From what I can gather though it will only be a Lynx on the outside and will be a much more capable pussycat.
From a cynical POV by the time JSF comes into service the whole fixed wing fleet will be run by those nice chaps in light blue and the carriers will be merely floating airfields with 4* accomadation.
Both the Seaking 4 and Lynx are to be replaced in the near future, SABR will most likely be new Chinooks, the Merlin just can't lift anything and hasn't got any legs, NH90 and S92 are unproven, not built here and therefore seen as being too risky. Osprey even more so.
Lynx is being replaced by BLUH and SCMR. This might end up being a new Lynx provided for you brave fliers by those clever people at Wastelands but thats a political matter and we couldn't possibly discuss that. From what I can gather though it will only be a Lynx on the outside and will be a much more capable pussycat.
From a cynical POV by the time JSF comes into service the whole fixed wing fleet will be run by those nice chaps in light blue and the carriers will be merely floating airfields with 4* accomadation.
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There is no way on earth the Apache will serve at sea. Have you seen how narrow the wheelbase is, PLUS the UK versions are all Longbows, so even more weight on top with the Radar, for it to topple over.
Why do you think the USMC don't operate it?
Also it is not marinised, so it has to be wrapped up in bubble wrap in the ship, and then quickly upacked and flown away before the engines corrode to bits. (That is if the sea is calm enough)
Why do you think the USMC don't operate it?
Also it is not marinised, so it has to be wrapped up in bubble wrap in the ship, and then quickly upacked and flown away before the engines corrode to bits. (That is if the sea is calm enough)
Qoute from High Tech Weapons Of The Gulf War: Ted Smart, 1991.....
Of the Seahawk "..... Compared with other machines in the same class, it is bigger and several times more expensive, and it is compatible with very few ships outdide the US Navy." Note that the RAN warships that operate it are built to US designs.
The Lynx Mk8 is a winner. And all those other Navies that have bought it must have liked it.
Or are we talking about the anti armour Lynx of 847 NAS?
But will the hardware matter if they are not enough aircrew in the Navy? The RN is short of Pilots (and Observers), this has been causing concern for some years. A few years ago someone (maybe the then CINCFLEET) wrote a report that mentioned this...
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/navy11.xml
See also http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../19/nhar19.xml
And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/nharr12.xml
A friend of mine (a Journo, well sort off) told me that even before the decision to lose the Sea Harrier was taken, the MOD were considering scrapping the idea to move them due to rentention issues.
Last December, the MOD finally did something to recruit more aircrew. See http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3325.html
Then in Feburary came the Sea Harrier decision. This has been discussed (including the negative effect on recruitment and retention) to the death on other threads (which can be looked at again using the search facility).
All bets are now off as to the Royal Navy having enough Pilots.
Of the Seahawk "..... Compared with other machines in the same class, it is bigger and several times more expensive, and it is compatible with very few ships outdide the US Navy." Note that the RAN warships that operate it are built to US designs.
The Lynx Mk8 is a winner. And all those other Navies that have bought it must have liked it.
Or are we talking about the anti armour Lynx of 847 NAS?
But will the hardware matter if they are not enough aircrew in the Navy? The RN is short of Pilots (and Observers), this has been causing concern for some years. A few years ago someone (maybe the then CINCFLEET) wrote a report that mentioned this...
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/navy11.xml
See also http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../19/nhar19.xml
And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/nharr12.xml
A friend of mine (a Journo, well sort off) told me that even before the decision to lose the Sea Harrier was taken, the MOD were considering scrapping the idea to move them due to rentention issues.
Last December, the MOD finally did something to recruit more aircrew. See http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3325.html
Then in Feburary came the Sea Harrier decision. This has been discussed (including the negative effect on recruitment and retention) to the death on other threads (which can be looked at again using the search facility).
All bets are now off as to the Royal Navy having enough Pilots.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 26th Nov 2002 at 20:24.
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Thanks that kind of increases the clarity of my question
So is it that the RN recruitment will suffer with the Sea harrier loss, or will have no effect, surely the JSF pilots will be from the RN?
So is it that the RN recruitment will suffer with the Sea harrier loss, or will have no effect, surely the JSF pilots will be from the RN?
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Speedbird
The Navy are starting to realise that the future is in ground attack and that air defence is a dying art. The future requires power projection which can be done much better in a GR9.
Despite the loss of the FA2, the Navy have actually come out of everything a lot better than the RAF who have effectively 'lost' 2 squadrons of GR7s. The future requires a multi-skilled pilot who can fly a multi-role aircraft.
JSF will be an awesome aircraft that will be in service with both the RN and RAF. Initially all training will be done in the US until an OCU is eventually established in this country. Even money says that JSF will be based around Cottesmore/Wittering.
So in answer to your question: although it is a bitter pill for the RN to swallow losing the FA2 and moving East, in the long run it will mean participation in more 'action' than protecting the carrier from a negligable threat.
The Navy are starting to realise that the future is in ground attack and that air defence is a dying art. The future requires power projection which can be done much better in a GR9.
Despite the loss of the FA2, the Navy have actually come out of everything a lot better than the RAF who have effectively 'lost' 2 squadrons of GR7s. The future requires a multi-skilled pilot who can fly a multi-role aircraft.
JSF will be an awesome aircraft that will be in service with both the RN and RAF. Initially all training will be done in the US until an OCU is eventually established in this country. Even money says that JSF will be based around Cottesmore/Wittering.
So in answer to your question: although it is a bitter pill for the RN to swallow losing the FA2 and moving East, in the long run it will mean participation in more 'action' than protecting the carrier from a negligable threat.
Mr Yellar
Why did your post read like something from a MOD spokesman?
The Navy are starting to realise that the future is in ground attack and that air defence is a dying art.
Interesting.... In that case why are the RAF getting Eurofighters? Why is air defence considered so important all over the world? Why did the Sea Harrier decision lead to both the First Sea Lord and Chief of Defence Staff deciding to leave their posts early?
Apart from the fact that the Sea Harrier defends the entire fleet and not just the CVS, are you really saying that ship based missile systems on their own are better than these systems plus a CAP?
Can you predict the future? Can you say for certain that the UK will not be involved in a conflict with a nation with a major air capability? Perhaps with one that has air launched anti ship missiles that could be fired outside the range of shipborne defences?
The following be of interest to you: http://www.cdiss.org/cmthreat.htm
As for the Yeovilton thing, I was only commenting on what I saw and got told.
And if anyone feels the need to make daft remarks about "your precious Sea Harriers" I will say only this - it is the mean and women of the Armed Forces, and their families, that are precious to me. That is my motivation for me posts etc on this issue, not any desire to take part in a "my willy is bigger than yours" argument.
Why did your post read like something from a MOD spokesman?
The Navy are starting to realise that the future is in ground attack and that air defence is a dying art.
Interesting.... In that case why are the RAF getting Eurofighters? Why is air defence considered so important all over the world? Why did the Sea Harrier decision lead to both the First Sea Lord and Chief of Defence Staff deciding to leave their posts early?
Apart from the fact that the Sea Harrier defends the entire fleet and not just the CVS, are you really saying that ship based missile systems on their own are better than these systems plus a CAP?
Can you predict the future? Can you say for certain that the UK will not be involved in a conflict with a nation with a major air capability? Perhaps with one that has air launched anti ship missiles that could be fired outside the range of shipborne defences?
The following be of interest to you: http://www.cdiss.org/cmthreat.htm
As for the Yeovilton thing, I was only commenting on what I saw and got told.
And if anyone feels the need to make daft remarks about "your precious Sea Harriers" I will say only this - it is the mean and women of the Armed Forces, and their families, that are precious to me. That is my motivation for me posts etc on this issue, not any desire to take part in a "my willy is bigger than yours" argument.
