MR4A slips right
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Archimedes:
MRA4 for the USA was NEVER going to happen; you should have heard the collective chuckle at Warton when the press corps was told that the aircraft had a serious chance in the MMA competition!
The aircraft has been withdrawn because it can't meet the established deadlines, and also wasn't bid for the German/Italian replacement MPA project because the number of airframes was too small to cover the new fuselage design. So that's your lot at 18 aircraft for the RAF, folks.
I don't think a teaming agreement with LM was realistically on the cards, as the company is already bidding a future Orion to meet the US requirement, where it has a much greater chance of success.
Moose
MRA4 for the USA was NEVER going to happen; you should have heard the collective chuckle at Warton when the press corps was told that the aircraft had a serious chance in the MMA competition!
The aircraft has been withdrawn because it can't meet the established deadlines, and also wasn't bid for the German/Italian replacement MPA project because the number of airframes was too small to cover the new fuselage design. So that's your lot at 18 aircraft for the RAF, folks.
I don't think a teaming agreement with LM was realistically on the cards, as the company is already bidding a future Orion to meet the US requirement, where it has a much greater chance of success.
Moose
Thanks, Moose.
I wonder if the chuckle you refer to was as loud as the guffaw when an inmate here at the Learning Centre (on OCC) made an assertion that the USN would without any doubt have the MRA 4.
Slightly offended, he referred us sceptics to the article in a respected journal (maybe not JDW as I thought. I didn't fall off my chair on reading it, but only because I was standing up at the time.
I assumed that LM must be covering all bases, but clearly not.
I wonder if the chuckle you refer to was as loud as the guffaw when an inmate here at the Learning Centre (on OCC) made an assertion that the USN would without any doubt have the MRA 4.
Slightly offended, he referred us sceptics to the article in a respected journal (maybe not JDW as I thought. I didn't fall off my chair on reading it, but only because I was standing up at the time.
I assumed that LM must be covering all bases, but clearly not.
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Archimedes,
Not sure if this is what you're thinking of, but this from JDW 19 December 2001; it didn't seem to be giving the "big up" to BAE's chances:
"BAE officials believe that the MRA4 is capable of meeting future maritime patrol requirements in both Japan and the USA, for which the company is proposing the redesign of the aircraft's main fuselage - the main platform element to be retained during the RAF programme - for local manufacture. Noting that these requirements call for aircraft deliveries by the end of this decade, Tom Nicholson, BAE's managing director, Nimrod, said: "We offer market availability, and with the right front prime [contractor], we're confident that we can give anyone a run for their money."
Market availability? Evidently not!
Moose
Not sure if this is what you're thinking of, but this from JDW 19 December 2001; it didn't seem to be giving the "big up" to BAE's chances:
"BAE officials believe that the MRA4 is capable of meeting future maritime patrol requirements in both Japan and the USA, for which the company is proposing the redesign of the aircraft's main fuselage - the main platform element to be retained during the RAF programme - for local manufacture. Noting that these requirements call for aircraft deliveries by the end of this decade, Tom Nicholson, BAE's managing director, Nimrod, said: "We offer market availability, and with the right front prime [contractor], we're confident that we can give anyone a run for their money."
Market availability? Evidently not!
Moose
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MRA 3.5
So the new all singing all dancing Nimrod has slipped?!
There's a wee shock from Lancashire and the hierarchy!
And we have stopped now recruiting Air Engineers too!!
All good planning i feel!
So in 12 (24 or 36+) months when we still have mostly MR2 a/c, who is going to do the Air Eng job when we stopped bringing them in, because we were too flush?
I wonder? , or are we going to have to alter that plan too?
kippers for tea?
There's a wee shock from Lancashire and the hierarchy!
And we have stopped now recruiting Air Engineers too!!
All good planning i feel!
So in 12 (24 or 36+) months when we still have mostly MR2 a/c, who is going to do the Air Eng job when we stopped bringing them in, because we were too flush?
I wonder? , or are we going to have to alter that plan too?
kippers for tea?
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RCOV 2 ENG - The RAF has said they will possably extend our contracts (sorry we don't have contracts do we), our service in 6 month blocks to cover the introduction of the MRA4. After the way they stiffed most of the newer guys with pay 2000 (I've had a query in since June 2000 still no reply). I can't see many taking them up on the offer
Last edited by Sideshow Bob; 26th Oct 2002 at 04:54.
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From a BAE Systems in-house newspaper (freely available):
"Training Solutions, part of Customer Support and Solutions, is to create a device based on the Nimrod fuselages and wings for handling smoke, fire and evacuation training."
Is this the future for MR4? An expensive toy for the fire section!
"Training Solutions, part of Customer Support and Solutions, is to create a device based on the Nimrod fuselages and wings for handling smoke, fire and evacuation training."
Is this the future for MR4? An expensive toy for the fire section!
It hadn’t been the best of times for ‘t Bungling Baron Waste o’ Space. Nothing had really gone right since he’d received the invitation to the Pentagon.....
“Sithee, by boogery, them Spams want me to go terr ‘t Pentagon to tell ‘em about ‘t airr forrce’s Nimrod.”, he confided in Boogerroff, his trusty whippet. “Scrotum!” he bellowed at his old wrinkled retainer, “Gerrout ‘t best tweed suit and moleskin weskit an’ I’ll be off in ‘t morrow”.
The next day, as Boogerroff whined plaintively, he set off in ‘t Rolls for the airport. He wasn’t terribly impressed at having to be frisked after the bells around his knees had set off the metal detector, nor at having to doff his best dancing clogs for security checking. “Eh oop, lad, careful of ‘t family jewels”, he’d warned the airport security officer before boarding his flight. Even that hadn’t gone well; “Now then, Flossie”, was his greeting to the cabin steward, “Ah don’t want any o’ that soft Sootherrn rubbish, so you or one of your girl friends had best go an’ get me a cow’s udder and pancreas tart an’ a nice piece of Parkin ferr afterrs”. The steward had glared at him, but had manage to keep him quiet throughout the flight with copious libations of brown ale. His arrival in the US had caused quite a stir as well; “Sithee, Sambo son, get off tha’ bum an’ get ‘t luggage in ‘t cab” he’d shouted at the African-American he’d wrongly assumed to be a porter. But the reply of “F*ck you, mutherfu*ker, this n*g*r ain’t doin’ yo’ sh*t!” had left him somewhat bewildered and he’d had to lug his brass-buttoned leather portmanteau to the taxi rank himself. “’terr ‘t Pentagon an’ chop chop, chinky lad”, he’d instructed his Vietnamese taxi driver as he squeezed his profusely sweating bulk into the cab. “Gerron ‘t right side of ‘t road tha soft booger”, he continued as the cab set off. Soon, however, he found himself at the Pentagon......
“Eh oop, Nelson lad, tha’ must be a brave sailor boy wi’ all them medals. Tha’ wants terr know about ma’ new Nimrod, does’t tha’?”, he’d enquired of Admiral Spiro T Chickensexer III who’d been sent to greet him.
“Sure. We’re assessing a range of airplanes procurement-wise for our anti-submarine requirement. We’ll be expecting a full presentation on your product with costed options and full customer support proposals for an output-specified platform capable.......”
“By I’ll go terr ‘t foot of ower sterrs if tha’ don’t talk funny, sailor boy”, spluttered the Baron, “don’t worry the se’n wi’ all that tittle-tattle. Tha’ won’t find owt’ better than ower Nimrod”
“Say, pal. What exactly is a Nimrod” asked the Admiral
“It’s based on ‘t ‘owd Comet”, explained the Baron
“Comet?”
“Aye. ‘t Comet werr ‘t firrst jet airliner, tha’ knows. Champion British it werrr”
The admiral pressed a button on his desk and a suit appeared at his elbow. “What have we got on the Comet, boy”, growled the Admiral. A few minutes later the suit reappeared with a thin, dusty volume entitled ‘Limey Airplanes of the ‘40s and ‘50s’. “Here you are, Admiral”, he said, “We found this in the Smithsonian...”
“Hmmm. ‘Inspired by the World’s first jet airliner, the all-American Boeing 707, the Comet was a total failure. After a succession of crashes, Brit airlines soon replaced it with the 707. Later it was used by the RAF and some were modified to Nimrod anti-submarine airplanes to replace the Second World War Shackleton. A later airborne radar version was scrapped in favor of the superior Boeing E-3 AWACS’. So, if I read you right, you’re trying to sell us something nearly 50 years old - kinda young for a Limey jet, I guess - which has a history of falling out of the sky and delayed, expensive development programs which never really worked?”, queried the Admiral.
“Now then, now then - don’t get thee mad oop, sailor boy. ‘t Nimrod has been proper champion for ‘t Airr Forrce for ‘t last 35 years an’ now we’re selling them a new one”
“New?”
“Well, ‘t new ones are being built from ‘t old ones. Grand way of saving brass, tha’ knows....”
“Built from old ones. Guess they’re the ones you used as airliners and then put into desert storage?”
“Nay, lad. Them’s proper anit-soobmarrine ‘uns as 'ave been stored oop in Scotland”
“Lemme get this right. You’re modifying old airplanes which have been sub-hunting for 35 years and have then been stored in a salty atmosphere in a country famous for rain? Riiigghhhttt......that’ll work. How’s the program coming along?”
“Now, now, sailor lad. Ferrst ‘un flies in a year or two or therrreabouts. Don’t thee ferrget that we can keep ‘t programme ticking overr nicely for yearrs that way. An’ there’ll be soom nice little sub-contracts cooming tha’ way, tha’ knows.......”, continued the Baron....
“Thank you for your continued interest in our requirements”, concluded the Admiral.
“Wait till I tell Seth and ‘t men at ‘t werrks”, mused the Bungling Baron, “seems we’ve got ‘t Yank contract in ‘t bag!!”
“Sithee, by boogery, them Spams want me to go terr ‘t Pentagon to tell ‘em about ‘t airr forrce’s Nimrod.”, he confided in Boogerroff, his trusty whippet. “Scrotum!” he bellowed at his old wrinkled retainer, “Gerrout ‘t best tweed suit and moleskin weskit an’ I’ll be off in ‘t morrow”.
The next day, as Boogerroff whined plaintively, he set off in ‘t Rolls for the airport. He wasn’t terribly impressed at having to be frisked after the bells around his knees had set off the metal detector, nor at having to doff his best dancing clogs for security checking. “Eh oop, lad, careful of ‘t family jewels”, he’d warned the airport security officer before boarding his flight. Even that hadn’t gone well; “Now then, Flossie”, was his greeting to the cabin steward, “Ah don’t want any o’ that soft Sootherrn rubbish, so you or one of your girl friends had best go an’ get me a cow’s udder and pancreas tart an’ a nice piece of Parkin ferr afterrs”. The steward had glared at him, but had manage to keep him quiet throughout the flight with copious libations of brown ale. His arrival in the US had caused quite a stir as well; “Sithee, Sambo son, get off tha’ bum an’ get ‘t luggage in ‘t cab” he’d shouted at the African-American he’d wrongly assumed to be a porter. But the reply of “F*ck you, mutherfu*ker, this n*g*r ain’t doin’ yo’ sh*t!” had left him somewhat bewildered and he’d had to lug his brass-buttoned leather portmanteau to the taxi rank himself. “’terr ‘t Pentagon an’ chop chop, chinky lad”, he’d instructed his Vietnamese taxi driver as he squeezed his profusely sweating bulk into the cab. “Gerron ‘t right side of ‘t road tha soft booger”, he continued as the cab set off. Soon, however, he found himself at the Pentagon......
“Eh oop, Nelson lad, tha’ must be a brave sailor boy wi’ all them medals. Tha’ wants terr know about ma’ new Nimrod, does’t tha’?”, he’d enquired of Admiral Spiro T Chickensexer III who’d been sent to greet him.
“Sure. We’re assessing a range of airplanes procurement-wise for our anti-submarine requirement. We’ll be expecting a full presentation on your product with costed options and full customer support proposals for an output-specified platform capable.......”
“By I’ll go terr ‘t foot of ower sterrs if tha’ don’t talk funny, sailor boy”, spluttered the Baron, “don’t worry the se’n wi’ all that tittle-tattle. Tha’ won’t find owt’ better than ower Nimrod”
“Say, pal. What exactly is a Nimrod” asked the Admiral
“It’s based on ‘t ‘owd Comet”, explained the Baron
“Comet?”
“Aye. ‘t Comet werr ‘t firrst jet airliner, tha’ knows. Champion British it werrr”
The admiral pressed a button on his desk and a suit appeared at his elbow. “What have we got on the Comet, boy”, growled the Admiral. A few minutes later the suit reappeared with a thin, dusty volume entitled ‘Limey Airplanes of the ‘40s and ‘50s’. “Here you are, Admiral”, he said, “We found this in the Smithsonian...”
“Hmmm. ‘Inspired by the World’s first jet airliner, the all-American Boeing 707, the Comet was a total failure. After a succession of crashes, Brit airlines soon replaced it with the 707. Later it was used by the RAF and some were modified to Nimrod anti-submarine airplanes to replace the Second World War Shackleton. A later airborne radar version was scrapped in favor of the superior Boeing E-3 AWACS’. So, if I read you right, you’re trying to sell us something nearly 50 years old - kinda young for a Limey jet, I guess - which has a history of falling out of the sky and delayed, expensive development programs which never really worked?”, queried the Admiral.
“Now then, now then - don’t get thee mad oop, sailor boy. ‘t Nimrod has been proper champion for ‘t Airr Forrce for ‘t last 35 years an’ now we’re selling them a new one”
“New?”
“Well, ‘t new ones are being built from ‘t old ones. Grand way of saving brass, tha’ knows....”
“Built from old ones. Guess they’re the ones you used as airliners and then put into desert storage?”
“Nay, lad. Them’s proper anit-soobmarrine ‘uns as 'ave been stored oop in Scotland”
“Lemme get this right. You’re modifying old airplanes which have been sub-hunting for 35 years and have then been stored in a salty atmosphere in a country famous for rain? Riiigghhhttt......that’ll work. How’s the program coming along?”
“Now, now, sailor lad. Ferrst ‘un flies in a year or two or therrreabouts. Don’t thee ferrget that we can keep ‘t programme ticking overr nicely for yearrs that way. An’ there’ll be soom nice little sub-contracts cooming tha’ way, tha’ knows.......”, continued the Baron....
“Thank you for your continued interest in our requirements”, concluded the Admiral.
“Wait till I tell Seth and ‘t men at ‘t werrks”, mused the Bungling Baron, “seems we’ve got ‘t Yank contract in ‘t bag!!”
Mortified by the untimely death in 1995 of his creator, the late Vivian Stanshall, Old Scrotum had finally retired from his time at the great house of Rawlinson End and had taken to spending hours in 'The Fool and Bladder' on the banks of the River Riddle all alone except for the attentions of Seth and Rosie Onetooth, the landlords. It was here one day that ‘t Bungling Baron Waste o’ Space, on his way back oop Nawrth from securing “A nice little sub contract earrnerr from ‘t boogers in Idlewaterr”, stopped for directions after getting horribly lost on the road between Concreton and W@nkers Grunge. In a rare exhibition of compassion, learning of Scrotum’s fear of being pursued incessantly by Plunch, Sir Henry’s giant diplodocus, he offered Scrotum a job “ferr ‘t rest of tha’ days” as his retainer in “‘t Big House above ‘t werrks”.
And so Old Scrotum moved his ancient frame to the land of clog dancing, rain and aircraft that never flew and now spends his sunset years looking after the Baron and his flatulent whippet, Boogerroff, in ‘t Big House.
But when the wind blows and the moon is out, he still remembers his days down South at Rawlinson End.......
And so Old Scrotum moved his ancient frame to the land of clog dancing, rain and aircraft that never flew and now spends his sunset years looking after the Baron and his flatulent whippet, Boogerroff, in ‘t Big House.
But when the wind blows and the moon is out, he still remembers his days down South at Rawlinson End.......
Seems the Telegraph has only just caught up . . .
Taken from the Electronic Telegraph, 3/11/02 at some ungodly hour of the morning.
-----------------------
RAF spends billions upgrading the Nimrod - but now the wings don't fit
A multi-billion-pound upgrade of the Royal Air Force's Nimrod reconnaissance aircraft has been thrown into chaos after it emerged that the plane's new wings are too weak and have been made to the wrong size.
The blunder has forced the defence company, BAE Systems, which manufactures the aircraft, to delay its maiden flight by more than a year. That means that it may not enter front-line service until 2007, four years late.
The disclosure will be a severe embarrassment for the Ministry of Defence, which last week admitted that it does not have enough pilots to fly its newly-acquired Apache helicopters. The delays to the programme to upgrade the Nimrod, which is used for reconnaissance and submarine hunting, will deal a potentially serious blow to Britain's military capability.
The aircraft has been deployed in every significant British military operation in the last 30 years, including the Gulf war in 1991 and the Kosovo conflict, and to support forces in Afghanistan, where it was used to patrol Gulf shipping lanes.
The problems with the Nimrod's wings, which incorporate new engines, have occurred because each aircraft varies in shape and size. When the Nimrod, which entered service in 1969, was first manufactured, the early models were built using relatively unsophisticated equipment, which meant that the size of each aircraft and its component parts varied considerably.
The new wings, which have been built as part of a £3 billion contract awarded to BAE Systems in 1996, were, however, built using modern machinery to a standard, identical specification. The result is that wings which might fit one aircraft are too big or too small for other Nimrods, forcing the manufacturers to modify each set of wings individually.
BAE has also admitted that recent testing has shown that the wings need to be strengthened around the engines. It was this problem which has caused the most recent delays.
One official working on the rebuild said: "It's a classic case of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. These are individually designed aircraft and are built by hand. So each new set of wings will have to be individually fitted to each aircraft.
"Engineers have been trimming off bits of the wings to try to get them to fit. The whole thing is a fiasco."
One industry official added: "It is hardly credible that BAE, which is meant to be a sophisticated engineering company, appears beset with problems over this upgrade programme. Facts such as the wings not fitting or not being strong enough are just not acceptable for a company which is being paid billions of pounds for an important defence contract."
Britain has 21 Nimrods, which are based at RAF Kinloss in Scotland, where they form a vital part of the country's maritime defence and security capability. As well as adding new wings, the upgrade was also intended to provide new engines, navigation and reconnaissance systems.
The date for the completion of the improvements to the Nimrod had already been pushed back from 2003 to 2005 before the latest setback. The number of aircraft undergoing modification has also been reduced from 21 to 18.
Both BAE and the MoD have attempted to downplay the consequences of problems, despite admitting that they are likely to cause further delays. The manufacturing problems are so severe, however, that some of the aircraft crews at RAF Kinloss now believe that the project may eventually be scrapped with a cost to the taxpayer of more than £3 billion.
A spokesman for BAE Systems, which will be forced to pay the extra costs caused by the delay, estimated at £46 million, admitted that it had experienced difficulties with the weakness and fitting of the wings.
"This is exactly the sort of problem you encounter when you are involved in a project like this," said the spokesman. "We are in discussions with our customer and we are looking at what length of delay this will cause."
Bernard Jenkin, the shadow defence secretary, expressed concern at the Nimrod fiasco, however, and said that the Government was failing to ensure that the upgrade programme was carried out successfully.
"The new Nimrod is a vital capability for the Armed Services but it has been evident for some time that this programme is in trouble. When is the Government going to get a grip on this programme?
"They have already cut the order by three aircraft. I expect the Government to be open and honest about the problems this programme is facing," said Mr Jenkin.
The latest crisis concerning the Nimrod is reminiscent of a disastrous project in the 1980s to convert the aircraft into a new airborne early warning system. The attempt, which was managed by GEC, ended in fiasco when the Conservative government abandoned the scheme - which had cost £1 billion, or four times the original budget - and bought Boeing's AWACs aircraft instead.
Taken from the Electronic Telegraph, 3/11/02 at some ungodly hour of the morning.
-----------------------
RAF spends billions upgrading the Nimrod - but now the wings don't fit
A multi-billion-pound upgrade of the Royal Air Force's Nimrod reconnaissance aircraft has been thrown into chaos after it emerged that the plane's new wings are too weak and have been made to the wrong size.
The blunder has forced the defence company, BAE Systems, which manufactures the aircraft, to delay its maiden flight by more than a year. That means that it may not enter front-line service until 2007, four years late.
The disclosure will be a severe embarrassment for the Ministry of Defence, which last week admitted that it does not have enough pilots to fly its newly-acquired Apache helicopters. The delays to the programme to upgrade the Nimrod, which is used for reconnaissance and submarine hunting, will deal a potentially serious blow to Britain's military capability.
The aircraft has been deployed in every significant British military operation in the last 30 years, including the Gulf war in 1991 and the Kosovo conflict, and to support forces in Afghanistan, where it was used to patrol Gulf shipping lanes.
The problems with the Nimrod's wings, which incorporate new engines, have occurred because each aircraft varies in shape and size. When the Nimrod, which entered service in 1969, was first manufactured, the early models were built using relatively unsophisticated equipment, which meant that the size of each aircraft and its component parts varied considerably.
The new wings, which have been built as part of a £3 billion contract awarded to BAE Systems in 1996, were, however, built using modern machinery to a standard, identical specification. The result is that wings which might fit one aircraft are too big or too small for other Nimrods, forcing the manufacturers to modify each set of wings individually.
BAE has also admitted that recent testing has shown that the wings need to be strengthened around the engines. It was this problem which has caused the most recent delays.
One official working on the rebuild said: "It's a classic case of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. These are individually designed aircraft and are built by hand. So each new set of wings will have to be individually fitted to each aircraft.
"Engineers have been trimming off bits of the wings to try to get them to fit. The whole thing is a fiasco."
One industry official added: "It is hardly credible that BAE, which is meant to be a sophisticated engineering company, appears beset with problems over this upgrade programme. Facts such as the wings not fitting or not being strong enough are just not acceptable for a company which is being paid billions of pounds for an important defence contract."
Britain has 21 Nimrods, which are based at RAF Kinloss in Scotland, where they form a vital part of the country's maritime defence and security capability. As well as adding new wings, the upgrade was also intended to provide new engines, navigation and reconnaissance systems.
The date for the completion of the improvements to the Nimrod had already been pushed back from 2003 to 2005 before the latest setback. The number of aircraft undergoing modification has also been reduced from 21 to 18.
Both BAE and the MoD have attempted to downplay the consequences of problems, despite admitting that they are likely to cause further delays. The manufacturing problems are so severe, however, that some of the aircraft crews at RAF Kinloss now believe that the project may eventually be scrapped with a cost to the taxpayer of more than £3 billion.
A spokesman for BAE Systems, which will be forced to pay the extra costs caused by the delay, estimated at £46 million, admitted that it had experienced difficulties with the weakness and fitting of the wings.
"This is exactly the sort of problem you encounter when you are involved in a project like this," said the spokesman. "We are in discussions with our customer and we are looking at what length of delay this will cause."
Bernard Jenkin, the shadow defence secretary, expressed concern at the Nimrod fiasco, however, and said that the Government was failing to ensure that the upgrade programme was carried out successfully.
"The new Nimrod is a vital capability for the Armed Services but it has been evident for some time that this programme is in trouble. When is the Government going to get a grip on this programme?
"They have already cut the order by three aircraft. I expect the Government to be open and honest about the problems this programme is facing," said Mr Jenkin.
The latest crisis concerning the Nimrod is reminiscent of a disastrous project in the 1980s to convert the aircraft into a new airborne early warning system. The attempt, which was managed by GEC, ended in fiasco when the Conservative government abandoned the scheme - which had cost £1 billion, or four times the original budget - and bought Boeing's AWACs aircraft instead.
So it seems that the utter incompetence of 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space has been outed by the Torygraph at last.....
"This is exactly the sort of problem you encounter when you are involved in a project like this," said the spokesman. "We are in discussions with our customer and we are looking at what length of delay this will cause."
Those have to be 't werrds of 't Baron himself!
But interestingly, the Sunday Times isn't quite so melodramatic, referring instead to their 'sources' who say that problems arose in fitting the new engines and wings to the aircraft because of 'slight differences in the dimensions of each plane'
Test flights of the re-engined aircraft were to start before the end of the year, but are now unlikely to take place before the second half of 2003.
BWoS alleges that the latest delay was for extra strengthening to the wings of the first three development aircraft:
“These are development aircraft, and the point of building them was to uncover problems like this. The wing-strengthening work is minor”
The Sunday Times also says that the MoD confirmed the delay but was satisfied that no “major technical difficulties” had been identified. “There has been significant progress with other aspects of the programme and we remain committed to it,” the MoD was reported to have said.
Even if you believed that Elvis was still alive, you just wouldn't believe this tale of woe if it wasn't true.......
Meanwhile, how's the TypHoon coming along.....
"This is exactly the sort of problem you encounter when you are involved in a project like this," said the spokesman. "We are in discussions with our customer and we are looking at what length of delay this will cause."
Those have to be 't werrds of 't Baron himself!
But interestingly, the Sunday Times isn't quite so melodramatic, referring instead to their 'sources' who say that problems arose in fitting the new engines and wings to the aircraft because of 'slight differences in the dimensions of each plane'
Test flights of the re-engined aircraft were to start before the end of the year, but are now unlikely to take place before the second half of 2003.
BWoS alleges that the latest delay was for extra strengthening to the wings of the first three development aircraft:
“These are development aircraft, and the point of building them was to uncover problems like this. The wing-strengthening work is minor”
The Sunday Times also says that the MoD confirmed the delay but was satisfied that no “major technical difficulties” had been identified. “There has been significant progress with other aspects of the programme and we remain committed to it,” the MoD was reported to have said.
Even if you believed that Elvis was still alive, you just wouldn't believe this tale of woe if it wasn't true.......
Meanwhile, how's the TypHoon coming along.....
Last edited by BEagle; 3rd Nov 2002 at 10:34.
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Once upon a time a certain UK aircraft manufacturer was asked to supply a modification to the wing of a four engined service plane to strengthen it as its role was being changed to some degree. The company borrowed a frame and manufactured the modification and then went to fit it to the fleet. Alac-a-day oh woe it only fitted one aircraft as the frames were hand built and were all different. The company then had to bodge the mod to complete the job.
Am I repeating a story?, no i'm not. The aircraft was the Victor ,the mod was the cartspring mod to strengthen the wing root but the company, well you've guessed it.
Am I repeating a story?, no i'm not. The aircraft was the Victor ,the mod was the cartspring mod to strengthen the wing root but the company, well you've guessed it.
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Surely these tales of woe are not connected with the same industry that produces(?) the wings for the world-beating 'Groundbus' ?
It would appear to an outsider that the British aviation industry is emulating the former British Car, Motor Cycle, and Shipbuilding industries.
It would appear to an outsider that the British aviation industry is emulating the former British Car, Motor Cycle, and Shipbuilding industries.
1) You have a totally twisted and unbalanced view of the Airbus and its merits. I suspect that you have an unqualified regard for anything American, perhaps with a liberal dash of anti-Europeanism (envy perhaps?).
2) While the British car industry has undeniably declined in recent decades, one should not ignore the fact that Britain remains one of the centres for car design, exporting talent to the leading car-makers world-wide. Nor should one write off the very considerable success of firms like Jaguar in key export markets (don't tell me, they're just re-badged Fords, right?). And while they may not be worth much in terms of numbers of jobs, Britain's specialist car makers (Lotus et al) are in good shape, while Lotus (again) finds its services as an engineering consultant in great demand. The dominance of UK companies in the field of Formula 1 (and indeed throughout motorsport) is also a pointer to the health of an admittedly slimmed down and specialised industry.
3) Britain's bike industry was mis-managed and subject to the kind of under-investment and reliance on legacy models which can now be discerned in Boeing! Everything was being sacrificed to the shareholders, and modest investment in new models was not made. But you're behind the times, old chum, as the resurgence of Triumph under John Bloor proves.
4) Shipbuilding. OK. It looks like a token relic, an industrial capability maintained for political or strategic reasons. Certainly no match for New Zealand's sheer industrial muscle.
2) While the British car industry has undeniably declined in recent decades, one should not ignore the fact that Britain remains one of the centres for car design, exporting talent to the leading car-makers world-wide. Nor should one write off the very considerable success of firms like Jaguar in key export markets (don't tell me, they're just re-badged Fords, right?). And while they may not be worth much in terms of numbers of jobs, Britain's specialist car makers (Lotus et al) are in good shape, while Lotus (again) finds its services as an engineering consultant in great demand. The dominance of UK companies in the field of Formula 1 (and indeed throughout motorsport) is also a pointer to the health of an admittedly slimmed down and specialised industry.
3) Britain's bike industry was mis-managed and subject to the kind of under-investment and reliance on legacy models which can now be discerned in Boeing! Everything was being sacrificed to the shareholders, and modest investment in new models was not made. But you're behind the times, old chum, as the resurgence of Triumph under John Bloor proves.
4) Shipbuilding. OK. It looks like a token relic, an industrial capability maintained for political or strategic reasons. Certainly no match for New Zealand's sheer industrial muscle.
Things that didn't fit
The Vulcan airframes earmarked for the Blue Steel role were all constructed with bomb bay doors but these were not fitted as the aircraft were converted to the missile role fit. When the Blue Steel went out of service and the requirement arose to refit the former misslile carriers in the free fall role.............You've guessed it! they found that the bomb bay doors were all different sizes.
Nothing changes
Yellow Sun
Nothing changes
Yellow Sun