PC Dambusters
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PC Dambusters
Has the country gone completely to the dogs?
We all know that Politcal Correctness has done more to undermine the quality of our forces than any enemy, foreign or domestic, has done in recent years, but now even ITV are getting in the act.
Having just watched The Dambusters (Yea, Yea sad, but it's still a good film, even if not totally factually correct) I found that any reference to Wg Cdr Gibson's dog's name had been removed with a butchers knife. The dogs name was ******, get over it, it's fact.
I feel that editing of this kind only serves to denegrate those servicemen that the film portrayed.
Allegedly, the only thing stopping a remake is the dogs name. Don't bother with a remake, ITV have already done it!
I have phoned ITV to complain, I suggest anybody with similar views does the same.
ITV Duty Office 0870 241 6346
ITC Complaints 0845 601 3608
Edit : Even PPRUNE has gone PC crazy.......the dogs name was November India Golf Golf Echo Romeo.........think I might emigrate!
And apolgies that this has been covered, 1st time I've seen the edited version of the movie and immediately saw RED
We all know that Politcal Correctness has done more to undermine the quality of our forces than any enemy, foreign or domestic, has done in recent years, but now even ITV are getting in the act.
Having just watched The Dambusters (Yea, Yea sad, but it's still a good film, even if not totally factually correct) I found that any reference to Wg Cdr Gibson's dog's name had been removed with a butchers knife. The dogs name was ******, get over it, it's fact.
I feel that editing of this kind only serves to denegrate those servicemen that the film portrayed.
Allegedly, the only thing stopping a remake is the dogs name. Don't bother with a remake, ITV have already done it!
I have phoned ITV to complain, I suggest anybody with similar views does the same.
ITV Duty Office 0870 241 6346
ITC Complaints 0845 601 3608
Edit : Even PPRUNE has gone PC crazy.......the dogs name was November India Golf Golf Echo Romeo.........think I might emigrate!
And apolgies that this has been covered, 1st time I've seen the edited version of the movie and immediately saw RED
Last edited by Top Bunk Tester; 6th Oct 2002 at 19:56.
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TTB
This has pretty much been fully aired over the last several. . . and there is nothing anybody can do about it! The people who make these decisions are not going to be influenced one bit by contrary opinions of the thousands of blokes whose only purpose was and is to defend the country. As long as WE all remember the labrador's name it matters not what the "delicate" sensibilities of the PC crowd think.
Regarding the film this afternoon however. . .
I've seen it before and noticed this anomaly but hadn't thought to actually ask if anybody else noticed. As the third Lanc is making it's run on the first dam the other two are flying higher engaging the flak towers with their MC's. The "tracer" effect (hand-painted on the film) looks generally OK and can be seen coming from the nose turrets of the two Lancs with little flashing dots of white where the guns are. But, there are similar flashes represented at the wingtips! These "flash" as if there are guns there as well! I think not, unless it was a "special" mod.
Anybody else notice this?
This has pretty much been fully aired over the last several. . . and there is nothing anybody can do about it! The people who make these decisions are not going to be influenced one bit by contrary opinions of the thousands of blokes whose only purpose was and is to defend the country. As long as WE all remember the labrador's name it matters not what the "delicate" sensibilities of the PC crowd think.
Regarding the film this afternoon however. . .
I've seen it before and noticed this anomaly but hadn't thought to actually ask if anybody else noticed. As the third Lanc is making it's run on the first dam the other two are flying higher engaging the flak towers with their MC's. The "tracer" effect (hand-painted on the film) looks generally OK and can be seen coming from the nose turrets of the two Lancs with little flashing dots of white where the guns are. But, there are similar flashes represented at the wingtips! These "flash" as if there are guns there as well! I think not, unless it was a "special" mod.
Anybody else notice this?
When Melvyn Young began his attack on the Mohne dam in D-Dog, Gibson's crew distracted the flak gunners by banging away with all guns at the defenders, but from a 'safe' distance, whilst Young conducted his bomb run. According to Gibson's book, "we flicked on our identification lights to let them see us even more clearly".
Hence the flashing lights would seem to be entirely consistent with history, unlike the deletion of the name of his dog Nig.ger from the film.......
Hence the flashing lights would seem to be entirely consistent with history, unlike the deletion of the name of his dog Nig.ger from the film.......
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TBT
I noticed on the BBC's late screening of 'Wild Geese' (dire, but entertaining) last night, the 'N' word wasn't cut and neither was the 'F' word, which was entirely appropriate for the hour.
'Dambusters' is normally shown pre-watershed (Sunday afternoon family viewing fayre), hence the cut. If you are so keen to hear the 'N' word, go out and buy it on video.
Meanwhile, go and fulminate to ITV. You were obviously just waiting to be 'outraged'.
I noticed on the BBC's late screening of 'Wild Geese' (dire, but entertaining) last night, the 'N' word wasn't cut and neither was the 'F' word, which was entirely appropriate for the hour.
'Dambusters' is normally shown pre-watershed (Sunday afternoon family viewing fayre), hence the cut. If you are so keen to hear the 'N' word, go out and buy it on video.
Meanwhile, go and fulminate to ITV. You were obviously just waiting to be 'outraged'.
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Thanks for the answer BEgal, did actually consider this but it seemed so "obvious" I thought it would be laughed at - haven't read the book. It is nice to see a film with that sort of detail in it though.
Just a numbered other
I know it's all been aired before, but, Scud, you miss the point.
The word itself is not racist, only its use in racist circumstances.
Its use in this film, pre watershed, would provide an ample opportunity for a lesson to any enquiring child as to why the word is no longer in polite use.
To cut it out whilst TV generally is spiralling down a filthy drain is Hypocrisy.
The word itself is not racist, only its use in racist circumstances.
Its use in this film, pre watershed, would provide an ample opportunity for a lesson to any enquiring child as to why the word is no longer in polite use.
To cut it out whilst TV generally is spiralling down a filthy drain is Hypocrisy.
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The death of Gibson's dog N****r has a fairly important part in the story.
Gibson requested that the dog be buried 'at midnight' because he thought that both he & N****r would be going into the ground at the same time.
So whats the choice - Delete all reference to the dog's name (PC), or rename it 'Blackie? (Re-writing history)
Gibson requested that the dog be buried 'at midnight' because he thought that both he & N****r would be going into the ground at the same time.
So whats the choice - Delete all reference to the dog's name (PC), or rename it 'Blackie? (Re-writing history)
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If you watch movies like Pulp Fiction every second word the black actors speak seems to the the N word.
Interestingly I don't recal the n word ever being used much in the north of england.
People of colour were generaly refered to as D***ies,up here in the past,probably equally insulting.
Interestingly I don't recal the n word ever being used much in the north of england.
People of colour were generaly refered to as D***ies,up here in the past,probably equally insulting.
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SUL
As previously posted you totally missed the point. But having read back through some of your other replies to other subjects you obviously have extremely liberal views on most things.
Unfortunately, though some may call it 'progress' I feel that it is views like this that degrade the service ethos and the country as a whole. Maybe we should burn all of the books with any controversial/non PC views as well..................hang on...................didn't someone try that about 50 years ago?
As previously posted you totally missed the point. But having read back through some of your other replies to other subjects you obviously have extremely liberal views on most things.
Unfortunately, though some may call it 'progress' I feel that it is views like this that degrade the service ethos and the country as a whole. Maybe we should burn all of the books with any controversial/non PC views as well..................hang on...................didn't someone try that about 50 years ago?
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On this subject, I believe I've simply stated there is a time and a place for airing offensive language and a Sunday afternoon on ITV probably isn't it. Anyone who suggests the 'N' word per se is not generally regarded as highly offensive is somewhat out of touch with society. I totally agree that children should be educated regarding what is unacceptable language, but, again, there is a time and a place.
TBT
Thank you for taking the time to read back through some of my previous replies.
I would never advocate book burning. A German writer in the early 20th century said, "Where one burns books, there one eventually burns people". How prophetic.
Perhaps I am a liberal. I'm certainly a great believer in freedom of expression. But there is always a balance to be struck between freedom of speech and offensive behaviour.
TBT
Thank you for taking the time to read back through some of my previous replies.
I would never advocate book burning. A German writer in the early 20th century said, "Where one burns books, there one eventually burns people". How prophetic.
Perhaps I am a liberal. I'm certainly a great believer in freedom of expression. But there is always a balance to be struck between freedom of speech and offensive behaviour.
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But where does one draw the line between freedom of expression/speech etc and censoring history. Surely by removing the N word is one small step from declaring that the holocaust never occurred. Unrelated I know, but you get the general idea.
But where does one draw the line between freedom of expression/speech etc and censoring history. Surely by removing the N word is one small step from declaring that the holocaust never occurred. Unrelated I know, but you get the general idea.
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I'm wandering if ITV have the right to change it at all? They bought the right to transmit it but I would think the Copyright lies with the company that made it (Ealing Studios??) or that company's successor.
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Interestingly, the Radio Times did not give it's usual heads up in the films page that the film was chopped eg May be edited for violence/nudity/language. I also believe that the TV companies have carte blanche to edit(read............. censor) as they see fit.
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More cuts in the film
The latest TV airing of the Dambusters not only had the dog removed, but severe cutting before the take off sequence before the raid-all the interesting cockpit drill stuff/tension-gone. As a one time film editor in the BBC I deplore this butchery of films on TV.
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Without wishing to sound rude, I think that the name of the Labrador may soon become the last of your concerns.
I am led to believe that the 'real' story behind the Dam Busters raid may well bear little resemblance to the film. Recently unearthed documents suggest a different, less impressive, story, which might give cause for the history books to be re-written.
I can't personally state what this evidence is, but I know that a book on the matter is being written by a respected historian, and that he has access to a range of previously secret after-action reports and 617 Sqn. documentation.
It might be worth holding fire on ITV until a real target appears!
I am led to believe that the 'real' story behind the Dam Busters raid may well bear little resemblance to the film. Recently unearthed documents suggest a different, less impressive, story, which might give cause for the history books to be re-written.
I can't personally state what this evidence is, but I know that a book on the matter is being written by a respected historian, and that he has access to a range of previously secret after-action reports and 617 Sqn. documentation.
It might be worth holding fire on ITV until a real target appears!
There is a letter in the current edition of the Radio Times from a German woman who saw Dambusters on TV during a recent visit to UK. The writer states that the film is no more than blatant propaganda and takes no account of the loss of life caused by the raid. She further states that the film is totally unacceptable in the 21st century and should never be shown again....
Just because they lost.......
What about all the other war films, including German ones? Like Das Boot, based on the real campaign on the Atlantic. All the main characters (the Captain, Chief Engineer, Bosun etc) were based on real people.
Is this PC saying that references to the disagreement with the third reich are banned.
And whilst I'm in a slightly anti European mood, today is the 197th anniversery of the Battle of Trafalgar
Sorry for going off topic.
What about all the other war films, including German ones? Like Das Boot, based on the real campaign on the Atlantic. All the main characters (the Captain, Chief Engineer, Bosun etc) were based on real people.
Is this PC saying that references to the disagreement with the third reich are banned.
And whilst I'm in a slightly anti European mood, today is the 197th anniversery of the Battle of Trafalgar
Sorry for going off topic.