Warton's Future?

[mmitch]

Video on You tube from the Unite union on the lack of work on Typhoons.
Gives a dismal picture of the gap until the new aircraft begins production.
Hype or not?

Save aerospace jobs in Warton

mmitch.

[ORAC]

Substantial hype, the order from Turkey, including the next 12 for Qatar will help fill the gap as will other orders and the lead-in work on GCAP/Tempest.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/2...n-a-generation

20,000 UK jobs secured as Türkiye buys 20 Typhoon jets in biggest fighter jet deal in a generation

https://www.turkiyetoday.com/nation/...-years-3214990

Türkiye revises Eurofighter Typhoon plan, fleet to reach 56 jets within 4 years

https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/tops...vertelemetry=1

BAE eyes orders for 150 more Eurofighter Typhoon jets amid union concern over jobs

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/...trator-231884/

BAE SYSTEMS USES 3D PRINTING FOR NEW TEMPEST FIGHTER JET DEMONSTRATOR

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence...163816.article

UK reveals design of its next-generation combat air flying demonstrator

[dagenham]

Perhaps we should order a few more ……

[Flap Track 6]

Originally Posted by dagenham

Perhaps we should order a few more ……

The RAF are clear that they want no more Typhoons and will not be paying for any more new weapons integrations onto the platform. They see their future as F-35 and then GCAP.
They don’t have the funding for the F-35s they want so they’re not going to be spending any on further Typhoons.

[Bonkey]

Union scaremongering. We are a key supplier to Warton and they are very busy with Tempest. In the shorter term they have the Turkish Typhoon orders and also Warton and Samlesbury make major sub-assemblies for all new Typhoons, regardless of where final assembly takes place. Therefore they get work on the recent German and Spanish top-up orders too.

[dagenham]

Originally Posted by Flap Track 6

The RAF are clear that they want no more Typhoons and will not be paying for any more new weapons integrations onto the platform. They see their future as F-35 and then GCAP.
They don’t have the funding for the F-35s they want so they’re not going to be spending any on further Typhoons.

I know but may be it’s re consider time and have a balanced fleet of more than one type and a super high cost platform like ermmmm the yanks. You can have both and perhaps kier might or should be looking at all options to build some strength and with the speed of a thousand gazelles

[chevvron]

Open a line for production of a new fast jet trainer?

[biscuit74]

Originally Posted by Flap Track 6

The RAF are clear that they want no more Typhoons and will not be paying for any more new weapons integrations onto the platform. They see their future as F-35 and then GCAP.
They don’t have the funding for the F-35s they want so they’re not going to be spending any on further Typhoons.

The way that reads seems to me to suggest the RAF is being deliberately dog-in-the-manger. If F-35s are denied us then we shall accept nothing - I must be misunderstanding this, 'Flap Track'. Are they refusing further Typhoons in the hope that when budget funding becomes available then more F-35s will be purchased ?

Mind you, I can't help feel buying more F-35s is a very bad idea when the USA has shown how unreliable it is and will likely be for some time to come. We need to move away from US dependence and encourage more British or European sourced kit.

[ORAC]

No, it’s that the cash for more F-was is locked in, at least for around 72, and where any future funding goes - which means Typhoon or Tempest.

Remember that Typhoon was never the desired Tornado F3 replacement, that was a different AST. Typhoon was the Jaguar replacement for the Central Region, a short range dogfighter/day attack mudmover; when they Jag was cancelled the Typhoon contract had already been signed so F3 replacement was cancelled and the Typhoon given the role.

The RAF wanted a long range oceanic twin engined interceptor for Atlantic/GIUK ops - and that is what Tempest is designed for.

So, if a choice has to be made between buying more Typhoon or safeguarding Tempest as it’s replacement - they’ll save the money for Tempest.

[typerated]

Originally Posted by ORAC

No, it’s that the cash for more F-was is locked in, at least for around 72, and where any future funding goes - which means Typhoon or Tempest.

Remember that Typhoon was never the desired Tornado F3 replacement, that was a different AST. Typhoon was the Jaguar replacement for the Central Region, a short range dogfighter/day attack mudmover; when they Jag was cancelled the Typhoon contract had already been signed so F3 replacement was cancelled and the Typhoon given the role.

The RAF wanted a long range oceanic twin engined interceptor for Atlantic/GIUK ops - and that is what Tempest is designed for.

So, if a choice has to be made between buying more Typhoon or safeguarding Tempest as it’s replacement - they’ll save the money for Tempest.

Seems like there is some logic with this...
As long as they keep the T1 jets going as purely AD to keep the numbers at an acceptable level then it sounds a decent plan............🤔

[ORAC]

As long as they keep the T1 jets going as purely AD to keep the numbers at an acceptable level then it sounds a decent plan.........

ROFL….. Already gone.

T1 was officially retired from service on 1st April 2025, bar 4 in the Falklands which will soldier on till 2027. The remainder have already been reduced to spares.

https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news...hoon-scrapped/

RAF nearing the end of Typhoon Tranche 1 phase-out

In response to enquiries by Conservative MP Ben Obese-Jecty, Defence Minister Maria Eagle, on 1 September, outlined the retirement plan for the 137 Typhoons in RAF service.

“26 of the 30 Tranche 1 Typhoon aircraft have been scrapped as of 1 July 2025; this equates to 87% of the Tranche 1 fleet,” she responded.

Four of the Tranche 1 Typhoons remain in service as quick reaction alert (QRA) aircraft based at Mount Pleasant airbase in the Falklands. They will remain in use until 2027.

Alongside these remain another 107 Typhoons, 67 of the Tranche 2 and 40 Tranche 3. Eagle stated that all of these advanced Typhoons are slated for retirement in 2040.…..

The United Kingdom is a partner in the development of the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP). Part of this project includes the production of a 6th-generation fighter jet, nicknamed Tempest.

The first demonstrator is currently under construction by BAE Systems in the United Kingdom, and the type is planned to enter service in 2035.…..

[Asturias56]

"So, if a choice has to be made between buying more Typhoon or safeguarding Tempest as it’s replacement - they’ll save the money for Tempest."

that's a great idea but Tempest is years away - we might need some more combat aircraft a bit sooner perhaps? But maybe the RAF know something not vouchsafed to the rest of us...........

[typerated]

Originally Posted by ORAC

ROFL….. Already gone.

T1 was officially retired from service on 1st April 2025, bar 4 in the Falklands which will soldier on till 2027. The remainder have already been reduced to spares.

https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news...hoon-scrapped/

I knew I was just taking the piss..
Maybe it wasnt obvious

[biscuit74]

Thank you ORAC, that make better sense to me.

I am surprised that the Tranche 1 Typhoons have been scrapped already. Does that reflect high usage due to low fleet numbers, rapid obsolescence of the technologies or a lack of cash and personnel to keep them in service? Compared to some earlier airframes those lifespans seem short.

[ORAC]

I am surprised that the Tranche 1 Typhoons have been scrapped already. Does that reflect high usage due to low fleet numbers, rapid obsolescence of the technologies or a lack of cash and personnel to keep them in service? Compared to some earlier airframes those lifespans seem short.

Cash.

The airframes had only used up about 60% of their life, BAe did offer to upgrade them but, from all reports, the cost wasn’t worth it for the remaining life. Reducing them to spares reduces the ongoing costs to keep the rest of the fleet running.

There was a lot of support just to keep them as is and use them just for the AD QRA role in the UK and make the rest of the fleet available for OOA ops, but the money wasn’t there in the budget.

Again, as stated, there was/is pressure to buy additional new aircraft, but they can’t even find the money to buy the planned additional F-35Bs and the F-35A buy seems designed to save just a handful of extra cash as they are marginally cheaper than the B.

The saving factor for GCAP/Tempest is that contracts have already been signed along with Italy and Japan and it would, presumably, now be more expensive to cancel than continue. One of the advantages gained by being in an international consortium as opposed to the disadvantages.

The dogfights in future won’t be about buying more Typhoons but about how the available cash is spent between buying tranches of F-35A/F-35B/Tempest and total fleet numbers.

[Flap Track 6]

Originally Posted by biscuit74

The way that reads seems to me to suggest the RAF is being deliberately dog-in-the-manger. If F-35s are denied us then we shall accept nothing - I must be misunderstanding this, 'Flap Track'. Are they refusing further Typhoons in the hope that when budget funding becomes available then more F-35s will be purchased ?

Mind you, I can't help feel buying more F-35s is a very bad idea when the USA has shown how unreliable it is and will likely be for some time to come. We need to move away from US dependence and encourage more British or European sourced kit.

Apart from the crippling financial straitjacket in which it finds itself, the RAF wants to be an entirely fifth and sixth generation frontline force and is spending its money to further that aim.

[EXDAC]

Originally Posted by biscuit74

I can't help feel buying more F-35s is a very bad idea when the USA has shown how unreliable it is and will likely be for some time to come.

The USA has shown how unreliable the F-35 is? Or, perhaps, the USA has shown how unreliable the USA is? Or was it both?