Neck pain - This might be of interest
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: UK
Neck pain - This might be of interest
I was clearing out an old box of stuff and came across a study by QinetiQ that basically said the MoD knew neck pain was a big problem. I scanned it and tried to upload but it is 10mb PDF and Pprune wont allow files >2mb so it is on my Google Drive link instead.
This might be useful for somebody....
UPDATED LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DJMxKoHY_vJfFyo7u5DhaQ4m5NVr4JSG/view
This might be useful for somebody....
UPDATED LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DJMxKoHY_vJfFyo7u5DhaQ4m5NVr4JSG/view
Last edited by heights good; 16th November 2025 at 20:26.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,992
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From: UK
As one with both the right background and fairly constant neck pain (yes, I know that I'm a pain in the neck) the file might be informative ... if I could read it ! ! !
Unfortunately, even when magnified, the very light blue typescirpt makes reading both difficult and tiring.
Unfortunately, even when magnified, the very light blue typescirpt makes reading both difficult and tiring.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: England
I haven't tried this, but since it's a PDF you should be able to import it into Word and change the font, or into Photoshop and increase the contrast. (other programs are available)
Joined: Sep 2022
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From: EGBO
I was clearing out an old box of stuff and came across a study by QinetiQ that basically said the MoD knew neck pain was a big problem. I scanned it and tried to upload but it is 10mb PDF and Pprune wont allow files >2mb so it is on my Google Drive link instead.
This might be useful for somebody....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/155R...ew?usp=sharing
This might be useful for somebody....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/155R...ew?usp=sharing
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 487
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From: UK
Thanks to VM325 for making it more legible. Updated and clearer version is at the link below.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DJM...m5NVr4JSG/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DJM...m5NVr4JSG/view
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
Thank you again, heights good and VM325.
Scan/read since I have no experience of Chinook or NVGs. While whole body fatigue was very much a feature of S&R instucting (in the mid 1960s), I don't recall any specific neck-related issues.
It would seem reasonable to assume that adding any item of significant mass to the human frame would induce an accompanying muscle/nerve impact, with the effects being proportionate to the forces/ exposure times experienced.
My present-day neck discomfort owes much to anno domini !
Scan/read since I have no experience of Chinook or NVGs. While whole body fatigue was very much a feature of S&R instucting (in the mid 1960s), I don't recall any specific neck-related issues.
It would seem reasonable to assume that adding any item of significant mass to the human frame would induce an accompanying muscle/nerve impact, with the effects being proportionate to the forces/ exposure times experienced.
My present-day neck discomfort owes much to anno domini !
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: A better place.
In a previous life, spent quite a bit of time as pax in helicopters.
I remember being in the back seat of a Squirrel once and being surprised at the movement of the pilot's head induced by vibration of the machine and the weight of the helmet, even in normal cruise flight.
It was a standard Gentex-type white civilian helmet, with no added extras.
Significant enough to think at the time "that's an OSH issue in the making over several years..."
(Presuming that the wobbling head wasn't due to any other factors
)
I remember being in the back seat of a Squirrel once and being surprised at the movement of the pilot's head induced by vibration of the machine and the weight of the helmet, even in normal cruise flight.
It was a standard Gentex-type white civilian helmet, with no added extras.
Significant enough to think at the time "that's an OSH issue in the making over several years..."
(Presuming that the wobbling head wasn't due to any other factors
)Joined: Nov 2025
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From: Brisbane
Haven’t, neck issues been prevalent with carrier take off’s.
I recall that the F35 had to either have it’s front leg/suspension changed or the actual launch ‘harshness’ had to be changed.
There’s video’s of the pilots heads in the F35’s bobbing around just launch.
I recall that the F35 had to either have it’s front leg/suspension changed or the actual launch ‘harshness’ had to be changed.
There’s video’s of the pilots heads in the F35’s bobbing around just launch.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: lincolnshire
NECK STRESS IN FIGHTERS DURING AIR COMBAT TRAINING
I spent many years doing legal ACM in Hunters, Harriers and Starfighters, (plus some illegal stuff in clean Tornado GR1s) and back in the 70s-80s the aviation medic fraternity continually denied us lightweight helmets to alleviate neck loads.
The average male human head weighs about 11 lb, plus about 4lb for the Mk3 helmet equals 15lb, thus pulling a steady 6g the load on your neck is around 90 lb. That doesn’t sound too bad if you can brace the neck muscles and just keep your head still. However, in ACM you are continually twisting your head around to keep tabs on what’s going on around you. Back in the day I regularly pointed this out to the aviation medics but they weren’t interested. All they seemed to be care about was optimum crash protection.
They were always unimpressed by my argument that my chances of crashing and needing that level of protection to survive were not high: – in the majority of crashes in those days no amount of head protection would have saved the aircrew. However, I would be pulling a steady 6-7g most days I flew, with consequent stress on my neck.
What kind of permanent damage would that have done to my neck?
ExMM
I spent many years doing legal ACM in Hunters, Harriers and Starfighters, (plus some illegal stuff in clean Tornado GR1s) and back in the 70s-80s the aviation medic fraternity continually denied us lightweight helmets to alleviate neck loads.
The average male human head weighs about 11 lb, plus about 4lb for the Mk3 helmet equals 15lb, thus pulling a steady 6g the load on your neck is around 90 lb. That doesn’t sound too bad if you can brace the neck muscles and just keep your head still. However, in ACM you are continually twisting your head around to keep tabs on what’s going on around you. Back in the day I regularly pointed this out to the aviation medics but they weren’t interested. All they seemed to be care about was optimum crash protection.
They were always unimpressed by my argument that my chances of crashing and needing that level of protection to survive were not high: – in the majority of crashes in those days no amount of head protection would have saved the aircrew. However, I would be pulling a steady 6-7g most days I flew, with consequent stress on my neck.
What kind of permanent damage would that have done to my neck?
ExMM
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Used to be God's own County
I recall raising this issue with the 'powers that be' in the 90s with the intention to try and at least get our seats upgraded to ones which were adjustable in all the correct places.......I was told then that nothing would happen until the cost of litigation outweighed the cost of modification. ENDEX
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From: Australia OZ
The approx. 6G lateral catapult of an A4G down the 100 foot track in less than two seconds was OK for one's head, stressed back on the headrest. You refer to the F-35C. Below is a link to a slow motion video of such a catapult launch BEFORE the changes made to alleviate the 'head bobbing down and up'. The issue was exacerbated by catapulting at low aircraft launch weights such as those during carrier qualification; however after the changes catapults are said to be tolerable. IIRC the issue was more about the 'head bobbing' effect on the HMDS becoming unreadable briefly. [Again any advertisements seen before/after this video are beneficial to gargle and not to me - these changes made by goggle long after the video was posted for free.]First F-35C Catapult Instant One Eighth Slow Motion
A gentle mill pond LIGHTNING FORCE F-35B launch: F35B-launch.jpeg (1500×1000)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 21st November 2025 at 17:48. Reason: + jpg
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From: Australia OZ
MAKING INJURY PREVENTION A HABIT - Naval Aviation News Year in Review
First-Of-Its-Kind Virtual CNATRA App to Aid in Head, Back Injury Prevention
https://navalaviationnews.navy.mil/P...YIR%202024.pdf (6Mb)
QUOTE: “The HABIT program is divided into two options: the ‘High G Series,’ completed in 12 minutes, and the ‘Relative Flight Series,’ completed in eight minutes. Each set of stretches and movements can be incorporated into specific Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization (NATOPS) checklists.”
"...The Head and Back Injury Training (HABIT) program seeks to increase mission performance by providing flight instructors and Student Naval Aviators (SNA) with the resources and training necessary to reduce the chance of injury by preparing their bodies for cockpit environment. This includes a collection of stretches, exercises and workouts developed specifically to enhance mobility and address the stressors frequently experienced by pilots and aircrew. The HABIT program is governed by CNATRA Instruction 6200, which requires these procedures be included as part of the pilots’ briefing. By developing a virtual exercise program within the Navy App Locker to supplement this program, HABIT workouts can be incorporated into pre- and post-flight briefs with the goal of injury prevention and long-term health support for Naval Aviators.
Lt. Cmdr. Taylor Burton, CNATRA AMSO and deputy surgeon, saw many neck and back injuries during his time in the EA-18G Growler community. These aircraft, along with the F/A-18, use an Improved Joint Helmet-Mounted Cuing System (IJHMCS) helmet that weighs 22 pounds. This weight, in addition to G-force, creates a strain for neck muscles during high performance maneuvers. Over time, the exposure to repeated neck strain can result in a higher likelihood of chronic neck and back pain. Burton expanded his research to the strike fighter wing community and found similar issues.
“Aircrew didn’t want to stop flying, so they would often ignore physical symptoms and not seek help,” Burton said. “There wasn’t a mechanism in place in Naval Aviation to prevent these symptoms from developing. While physical therapy was an option, the information wasn’t adequately distributed so enough pilots would seek help through physical therapists.” Using volunteers as a study group, and utilizing the knowledge of Navy physiologists, an effort known as “prehabilitation” emerged to strengthen, stretch and improve physiology before and after flights with the goal to ultimately reduce the development of neck and back pain or injuries....
...“Pilots are sent into very dynamic flights under high G-force, or long flights where pilots sit with poor posture in a way that their vest or helmet is weighing them down,” Grubic said. “We worked with the test pilot community in numerous aircraft to help pilots stationed there improve their health and get back into the cockpit. During my time at MAG-13, I have worked with F-35 pilots who have a large helmet, about 5 pounds, also flying dynamic flights anywhere up to 7 to 7.5 Gs. That is a lot of force on the body even without added weight of the helmet.”..."
First-Of-Its-Kind Virtual CNATRA App to Aid in Head, Back Injury Prevention
https://navalaviationnews.navy.mil/P...YIR%202024.pdf (6Mb)
QUOTE: “The HABIT program is divided into two options: the ‘High G Series,’ completed in 12 minutes, and the ‘Relative Flight Series,’ completed in eight minutes. Each set of stretches and movements can be incorporated into specific Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization (NATOPS) checklists.”
"...The Head and Back Injury Training (HABIT) program seeks to increase mission performance by providing flight instructors and Student Naval Aviators (SNA) with the resources and training necessary to reduce the chance of injury by preparing their bodies for cockpit environment. This includes a collection of stretches, exercises and workouts developed specifically to enhance mobility and address the stressors frequently experienced by pilots and aircrew. The HABIT program is governed by CNATRA Instruction 6200, which requires these procedures be included as part of the pilots’ briefing. By developing a virtual exercise program within the Navy App Locker to supplement this program, HABIT workouts can be incorporated into pre- and post-flight briefs with the goal of injury prevention and long-term health support for Naval Aviators.
Lt. Cmdr. Taylor Burton, CNATRA AMSO and deputy surgeon, saw many neck and back injuries during his time in the EA-18G Growler community. These aircraft, along with the F/A-18, use an Improved Joint Helmet-Mounted Cuing System (IJHMCS) helmet that weighs 22 pounds. This weight, in addition to G-force, creates a strain for neck muscles during high performance maneuvers. Over time, the exposure to repeated neck strain can result in a higher likelihood of chronic neck and back pain. Burton expanded his research to the strike fighter wing community and found similar issues.
“Aircrew didn’t want to stop flying, so they would often ignore physical symptoms and not seek help,” Burton said. “There wasn’t a mechanism in place in Naval Aviation to prevent these symptoms from developing. While physical therapy was an option, the information wasn’t adequately distributed so enough pilots would seek help through physical therapists.” Using volunteers as a study group, and utilizing the knowledge of Navy physiologists, an effort known as “prehabilitation” emerged to strengthen, stretch and improve physiology before and after flights with the goal to ultimately reduce the development of neck and back pain or injuries....
...“Pilots are sent into very dynamic flights under high G-force, or long flights where pilots sit with poor posture in a way that their vest or helmet is weighing them down,” Grubic said. “We worked with the test pilot community in numerous aircraft to help pilots stationed there improve their health and get back into the cockpit. During my time at MAG-13, I have worked with F-35 pilots who have a large helmet, about 5 pounds, also flying dynamic flights anywhere up to 7 to 7.5 Gs. That is a lot of force on the body even without added weight of the helmet.”..."
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: 350/3 Compton
One of my War Disablement pensions is for neck problems. In Yeovil District Hospital it was known as “Harrier Neck Syndrome”. I still have trouble winding it in!
Luckily, not too much call for checking my 6 lately 🙂
Mog
Luckily, not too much call for checking my 6 lately 🙂
Mog
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I spent quite a few hours wearing NVG during my RAF SH days. Initially, a few years prior to GW1 we trialled flying with "PNG" (Passive Night Goggles) which were designed for earthbound use, not for flying. One eyepiece had to be focussed inside on the instruments, the other outside because they were built onto an olive green, opaque plastic faceplate and you couldn't see round them - crazy, dangerous days. The Gen 1 NVGs (actually designed to be flown with) that came later had a battery pack which Velcro'd onto the rear of the helmet and acted as a counterbalance for the goggles themselves, which clipped onto the front.
I later went to a fixed wing tour where NVGs weren't used. On my return to SH (initially to refresh for GW1) a later generation of NVGs had come into use. They had built in batteries and therefore no separate pack. Because of the internal batteries they were heavier than Gen1's.
I was hurriedly issued with a set and expected to just get on with it as it was known that I used to be qualified and instructed in their use. I fitted them and found them really, really uncomfortable. The only way to prevent the weight of them pulling the brow of my helmet right down was to tighten the adjustments of the liner right up, until my head and neck really ached and I could hardly see. It was a long night and I certainly wasn't at my best! The second night I flew with them I was given a different set. I then realised that the set from the night before was missing a heavy lead counterbalance weight that was supposed to go on the back of my helmet....
And yes, these days I do suffer from quite severe neck problems (so does my wife, she says since retirement I'm home a lot more and I'm often a pain in the neck).
I later went to a fixed wing tour where NVGs weren't used. On my return to SH (initially to refresh for GW1) a later generation of NVGs had come into use. They had built in batteries and therefore no separate pack. Because of the internal batteries they were heavier than Gen1's.
I was hurriedly issued with a set and expected to just get on with it as it was known that I used to be qualified and instructed in their use. I fitted them and found them really, really uncomfortable. The only way to prevent the weight of them pulling the brow of my helmet right down was to tighten the adjustments of the liner right up, until my head and neck really ached and I could hardly see. It was a long night and I certainly wasn't at my best! The second night I flew with them I was given a different set. I then realised that the set from the night before was missing a heavy lead counterbalance weight that was supposed to go on the back of my helmet....
And yes, these days I do suffer from quite severe neck problems (so does my wife, she says since retirement I'm home a lot more and I'm often a pain in the neck).
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
I am paid a part-pension for neck damage from ACM in a Mirage, turning my head to find that mongrel in our 6, loud crunching noise from the neck, constant problems since. Add to that the helicopter time, slumped in the non-comfort seat of a Huey, leaning slightly left to hold the collective, head tilted up to see over the coaming, and 1:1 bouncing from the rotors. Lumbar problems from the same.
ANVIS trials in early 80s were also uncomfortable, goggles hanging heavily on bridge of nose and cheekbones, no counterweight on the back. Luckily only flew with them for a few hours.
That bounce in the F-35 launch is awful!
ANVIS trials in early 80s were also uncomfortable, goggles hanging heavily on bridge of nose and cheekbones, no counterweight on the back. Luckily only flew with them for a few hours.
That bounce in the F-35 launch is awful!
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From: Australia OZ
Apparently some newbies were not strapping in TIGHT ENOUGH so that they would then bounce on the seat. Apparently these newbies claimed they could not reach the ejection seat handle but I think the 'weapon jettison handle' was mislabelled by news reporters misunderstanding. The nose strut was made 'not so bouncy' which also helped a taxiing issue about bounce. I guess this bounce is exacerbated at low aircraft weight, while several bigwigs say it is not a problem at normal/heavy not carqual light weights. Anyway several other tweaks appear to have solved the bounce problem.
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Derbyshire
If you want a pain in the neck.................
Fly something like an F-16, spot a bad guy in your 5 or 7 o'clock, and pull 9g to turn in to face him (or her) while looking over your shoulder.
Now that is a pain in the neck.
Fly something like an F-16, spot a bad guy in your 5 or 7 o'clock, and pull 9g to turn in to face him (or her) while looking over your shoulder.
Now that is a pain in the neck.
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From: UK